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Falcons are top 10 in both offense and defense


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22 minutes ago, Chunkey9 said:

The defense isn't that good. The only reason they don't give up as many yards is because they allow opponents to have 7 minute long drives.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. If you’re allowing teams to have 7 minute long drives then that would have to be the distance of the field every time AND they’d have to score as well. I guess every team we’ve played is averaging 4 drives a game 7 minutes each? Something has to give. 

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1 hour ago, TheFatboi said:

That makes absolutely no sense at all. If you’re allowing teams to have 7 minute long drives then that would have to be the distance of the field every time AND they’d have to score as well. I guess every team we’ve played is averaging 4 drives a game 7 minutes each? Something has to give. 

Plus it would show up in stats of defensive yards allowed. Falcons are 6th best in NFL in that category.

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2 hours ago, Chunkey9 said:

The defense isn't that good. The only reason they don't give up as many yards is because they allow opponents to have 7 minute long drives.

And this is exactly tbe logic that I was hoping to fight. In actuality,  the defense is playing pretty well . There are a few areas that we need to improve on like run defense, penalties, 3rd Down defense and creating turnovers. But if we did that we'd be a top 3-5 defense. Even with those issues we're top 10. 

To say were not that good is simply to not be aware of reality. The team is a lot better than our record suggests. And of the two units,  our defense has been the better.  Just think of our wins over Chicago and Lions coming down to the defense making goal line stands.  Our offense is not functioning at last year's high level. That means were aren't scoring as much. Yet somehow we've been in every game this season. Who has scored over 28-30 points on us?  Our offense is routinely going 3-out yet we aren't getting blown out. Seems the defense is better than they get credit for. 

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3 hours ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

And this is exactly tbe logic that I was hoping to fight. In actuality,  the defense is playing pretty well . There are a few areas that we need to improve on like run defense, penalties, 3rd Down defense and creating turnovers. But if we did that we'd be a top 3-5 defense. Even with those issues we're top 10. 

To say were not that good is simply to not be aware of reality. The team is a lot better than our record suggests. And of the two units,  our defense has been the better.  Just think of our wins over Chicago and Lions coming down to the defense making goal line stands.  Our offense is not functioning at last year's high level. That means were aren't scoring as much. Yet somehow we've been in every game this season. Who has scored over 28-30 points on us?  Our offense is routinely going 3-out yet we aren't getting blown out. Seems the defense is better than they get credit for. 

Lol, ok

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Yall really love YPG and PPG. They are two of the most baseless stats out there. Chunkey is on the same page I'm on: per drive stats. 

When the defense is 30th in time of possession per drive (3:04) and dead last in plays allowed per drive (6.50), that's not good. The reason YPG and PPG are useless is because it doesn't account for exposure, or time of possession. The defense allows an average of 3 mins to tick off the clock in an average drive while the offense eats up 3 mins on an average drive, suddenly the Atlanta Falcons as a team has the lowest number of drives of any team in the league. 

In generic terms, the Falcons offense is 8th in ypg and 16th in ppg. But a large part of that is due to lack of possessions. On an average possession, the Falcons' offense is #3 in yards and #9 in points but face the worst starting field position and the lowest number of drives, dragging their YPG and PPG down. 

Inversely, the Falcons defense is 7th in ypg and 10th in ppg. But on a per drive basis, they are 22nd in yards, 14th in points, 32nd in plays and 30 in time of possession. Vastly different than the 7th/10th ranks yall keep touting. I highly doubt anybody would say Atlanta' defense has been playing better than Seattle's, who is ranked 12th in ypg. 

Another stat is DVOA, which Atlanta ranked 29th before last week. To make it worse, their schedule rank of offense's faced was 29th easiest and they had the least amount variance in their weekly performance through their first 8 games. So they consistently underperformed. They've improved to 23 when weighting recent games, but overall, they aren't this top ten defense yall claim. They've been protected by time of possession and the least number of drives in the league. 

I will say they played like one vs Dallas. That is what they are capable of. They need to play like it the rest of the season. But just because two of the more popular counting stats say they are "top ten" doesn't truly mean it. The 2010 Falcons' defense was #5 in points allowed. Nobody would say Smitty had good defenses today though...

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1 hour ago, vel said:

Yall really love YPG and PPG. They are two of the most baseless stats out there. Chunkey is on the same page I'm on: per drive stats. 

When the defense is 30th in time of possession per drive (3:04) and dead last in plays allowed per drive (6.50), that's not good. The reason YPG and PPG are useless is because it doesn't account for exposure, or time of possession. The defense allows an average of 3 mins to tick off the clock in an average drive while the offense eats up 3 mins on an average drive, suddenly the Atlanta Falcons as a team has the lowest number of drives of any team in the league. 

In generic terms, the Falcons offense is 8th in ypg and 16th in ppg. But a large part of that is due to lack of possessions. On an average possession, the Falcons' offense is #3 in yards and #9 in points but face the worst starting field position and the lowest number of drives, dragging their YPG and PPG down. 

Inversely, the Falcons defense is 7th in ypg and 10th in ppg. But on a per drive basis, they are 22nd in yards, 14th in points, 32nd in plays and 30 in time of possession. Vastly different than the 7th/10th ranks yall keep touting. I highly doubt anybody would say Atlanta' defense has been playing better than Seattle's, who is ranked 12th in ypg. 

Another stat is DVOA, which Atlanta ranked 29th before last week. To make it worse, their schedule rank of offense's faced was 29th easiest and they had the least amount variance in their weekly performance through their first 8 games. So they consistently underperformed. They've improved to 23 when weighting recent games, but overall, they aren't this top ten defense yall claim. They've been protected by time of possession and the least number of drives in the league. 

I will say they played like one vs Dallas. That is what they are capable of. They need to play like it the rest of the season. But just because two of the more popular counting stats say they are "top ten" doesn't truly mean it. The 2010 Falcons' defense was #5 in points allowed. Nobody would say Smitty had good defenses today though...

Lack of creating turnovers and drive extending penalties can also be a reason for TOP being 30th but I still know what I see. I can SEE they get dink and dunked on. Also a big reason is how badly the offense was playing and putting the defense right back on the field with all those turnovers. That bs chunky talking bout don’t mean jack to me cause I KNOW it ain’t just straight defensive issues why TOP is 30th and you should know better as smart as you are.

 

If ANY offense keeps putting its defense back on the field the TOP is gonna look skewed like it’s something  wrong with the defense. I don’t buy it vel cause I’ve seen the offense keep the defense in bad situations yet the defense has kept us in every game except NE. Now check last years defensive TOP with an offense that DIDNT turn the ball over.

 

TOP is more of an offensive thing. If your offense is winning TOP the less you defense is in the field. All you’re telling me is our offense was holding the ball long enough. Don’t buy it. TOP is an offensive thing to me. For instance Dallas offense was 2nd in TOP last season with 31:55 meaning they controlled the clock  their defense was also 2nd with 28:32 because the OFFENSE controlled the clock. was their defense good? 

 

This year our offense is 22nd in TOP at 29:07 and the defense is 20th at 30:53. Do the math Vel? How is it on the defense? We all know NE’s defense sucks this year right?? Well they’re 9th in TOP. Know why that sorry defense is 9th? Cause their offense is 11th in TOP at 30:48. Your argument ain’t really making sense to me bro cause you want your offense to win the TOP battle. 

 

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13 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Lack of creating turnovers and drive extending penalties can also be a reason for TOP being 30th but I still know what I see. I can SEE they get dink and dunked on. Also a big reason is how badly the offense was playing and putting the defense right back on the field with all those turnovers. That bs chunky talking bout don’t mean jack to me cause I KNOW it ain’t just straight defensive issues why TOP is 30th and you should know better as smart as you are.

 

If ANY offense keeps putting its defense back on the field the TOP is gonna look skewed like it’s something  wrong with the defense. I don’t buy it vel cause I’ve seen the offense keep the defense in bad situations yet the defense has kept us in every game except NE. Now check last years defensive TOP with an offense that DIDNT turn the ball over.

 

TOP is more of an offensive thing. If your offense is winning TOP the less you defense is in the field. All you’re telling me is our offense was holding the ball long enough. Don’t buy it. TOP is an offensive thing to me. For instance Dallas offense was 2nd in TOP last season with 31:55 meaning they controlled the clock  their defense was also 2nd with 28:32 because the OFFENSE controlled the clock. was their defense good? 

 

This year our offense is 22nd in TOP at 29:07 and the defense is 20th at 30:53. Do the math Vel? How is it on the defense? We all know NE’s defense sucks this year right?? Well they’re 9th in TOP. Know why that sorry defense is 9th? Cause their offense is 11th in TOP at 30:48. Your argument ain’t really making sense to me bro cause you want your offense to win the TOP battle. 

 

Last year's defense was 26th in yards per drive, 27th in points, 29th in plays, and 24th in time of possession. 

Consider the offense's we've faced lately: MIA, BUF, CAR, NE, NYJ, DAL (without Zeke, Tyron, and banged up Dez). That's a bad crop off offenses outside of NE. The only one we dominated was DAL. 

Time of possession is an entire team thing. The defense's job is to get the offense the ball back. Yes, turnovers, but plan ole three and outs count just as well in my book. Just plain ole stopping the opponent's offense. 

Yes, the offense has put the defense in some bad positions. They did it just last game with the INT, leading to the only TD they gave up all game. But, that was the first game they capitalized on a weak, below average offense they were more talented than by miles. They didn't vs MIA, BUF, or CAR. 

You're ignoring number of drives. The Falcons offense on a per drive basis eats the clock better than all but 3 other teams. The problem is they don't have the ball enough because the defense isn't getting them the ball back enough. Even DQ has said it. They are letting teams have long drives and eat the clock as well. It's also contributing to the offense having the worst field position in the league. They have the farthest to go consistently. 

Yes, I'm not ignoring the offense. Not at all. A lot of issues. HeIl, we beat CAR if Julio just catches the ball. We beat MIA if not for a late pick in scoring range. We beat BUF if not for a fake fumble call. BUT! None of those three teams have good offenses and have been shut down before, something our defense should have been able to do given the talent advantage. They didn't. I'm not going to sit here and accept them allowing above average production to those three offenses considering the talent we have. 

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2 hours ago, vel said:

Yall really love YPG and PPG. They are two of the most baseless stats out there. Chunkey is on the same page I'm on: per drive stats. 

When the defense is 30th in time of possession per drive (3:04) and dead last in plays allowed per drive (6.50), that's not good. The reason YPG and PPG are useless is because it doesn't account for exposure, or time of possession. The defense allows an average of 3 mins to tick off the clock in an average drive while the offense eats up 3 mins on an average drive, suddenly the Atlanta Falcons as a team has the lowest number of drives of any team in the league. 

In generic terms, the Falcons offense is 8th in ypg and 16th in ppg. But a large part of that is due to lack of possessions. On an average possession, the Falcons' offense is #3 in yards and #9 in points but face the worst starting field position and the lowest number of drives, dragging their YPG and PPG down. 

Inversely, the Falcons defense is 7th in ypg and 10th in ppg. But on a per drive basis, they are 22nd in yards, 14th in points, 32nd in plays and 30 in time of possession. Vastly different than the 7th/10th ranks yall keep touting. I highly doubt anybody would say Atlanta' defense has been playing better than Seattle's, who is ranked 12th in ypg. 

Another stat is DVOA, which Atlanta ranked 29th before last week. To make it worse, their schedule rank of offense's faced was 29th easiest and they had the least amount variance in their weekly performance through their first 8 games. So they consistently underperformed. They've improved to 23 when weighting recent games, but overall, they aren't this top ten defense yall claim. They've been protected by time of possession and the least number of drives in the league. 

I will say they played like one vs Dallas. That is what they are capable of. They need to play like it the rest of the season. But just because two of the more popular counting stats say they are "top ten" doesn't truly mean it. The 2010 Falcons' defense was #5 in points allowed. Nobody would say Smitty had good defenses today though...

The 2010 Falcons' offense was #1 in TOP. As @TheFatboi mentioned, there's a positive correlation between offensive TOP and defensive performance. There's very few defenses in NFL history that were so good that it continued to wreak havoc on opposing offenses regardless of how many offensive possessions they had to defend. Those teams relied on their defense to win games because they knew their offense wasn't very good or just flat out sucked. The 2015 Broncos come to mind.

That being said, I know our current defense can perform better than it has over the last nine games. But it's not like they've been hemorrhaging yards and points like they were last year. 

Take this for comparison. We have a top 10 defense in both PPG and YPG, and yet our offense ranks near the bottom in TOP. The Saints up until this afternoon had a top 10 defense in both PPG and YPG (better than us), but their offense ranked #4 in TOP.

Now case in point. The Saints lost the TOP today by almost two full minutes, and all of a sudden their seemingly much improved defense looked very suspect--to the tune of 456 yards and 31 points.

So it stands to reason that if the offense can sustain drives better, the defense will likewise perform better. It's also possible that the defense improves regardless of what the offense does from here on out. I'm not sure our defense is quite that good just yet. In any case, our best bet is to play complementary football as best as we can from here on out. The defense has to get off the field on 3rd downs. The offense can't turn the ball over and keep stalling.

Edited by JerseyNo12
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And blaming the offense for the defense sucking because of "lack of rest" or whatever is baseless.

BUF opened the game with a 13 play, 6:31 minute drive. Fresh defense. 

Second drive of the second half, after two offensive possessions, defense allows a 19 play, 11:20 minute drive. 

MIA opened the second half, fresh from half time, 15 plays, 8:43 minute drive. Didn't force a single 3 and out to the worst offense in the league. 

Opened the second half vs CAR, 10 plays 5:57 minutes. Fresh from half time. 

Opened the game vs DAL, 9 plays 5:51 minutes. 

First drive of the second vs DAL, 10 plays, 5:57 minutes. Next possession they got a three and out but then responded, after an 8 play 3:55 minute scoring drive from the offense, by allowing a 13 play 4:17 minute drive. 

Most of the longest drives the defense has given up has been when they were fresh, not after some turnover or offensive blunder. Yes, a few have happened because the offense didn't give them a breather. But a lot of them has happened vs below average offenses to open the game or the second half. 

Good defenses don't care about the offense. They play good defense. Ask Seattle. Last year, they were on the field the 8th most on average time of possession, yet were 3rd in points and 5th in points allowed. They didn't whine about being on the field. Even ET came out and said they can win if they are on the field for 40 minutes (after a game in which they were). If that's what this defense is supposed to be, the blunders from the offense can't keep being this crutch yall make it. Shut down below average offenses like MIA, BUF, and CAR. 

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8 minutes ago, JerseyNo12 said:

The 2010 Falcons' offense was #1 in TOP. As @TheFatboi mentioned, there's a positive correlation between offensive TOP and defensive performance. There's very few defenses in NFL history that were so good that it continued to wreak havoc on opposing offenses regardless of how many offensive possessions they had to defend. Those teams relied on their defense to win games because they knew their offense wasn't very good or just flat out sucked. The 2015 Broncos come to mind.

That being said, I know our current defense can perform better than it has over the last nine games. But it's not like they've been hemorrhaging yards and points like they were last year. 

Take this for comparison. We have a top 10 defense in both PPG and YPG, and yet our offense ranks near the bottom in TOP. The Saints up until this afternoon had a top 10 defense in both PPG and YPG (better than us), but their offense ranked #4 in TOP.

Now case in point. The Saints lost the TOP today by almost two full minutes, and all of a sudden their seemingly much improved defense looked very suspect--to the tune of 456 yards and 31 points.

So it stands to reason that if the offense can sustain drives better, the defense will likewise perform better. It's also possible that the defense improves regardless of what the offense does from here on out. I'm not sure our defense is quite that good just yet. In any case, our best bet is to play complementary football as best as we can from here on out. The defense has to get off the field on 3rd downs. The offense can't turn the ball over and keep stalling.

Simple. And since we’re not really a ball control offense our defensive TOP isn’t gonna look so great because even last year this offense wasn’t a ball control offense and was like 19th in TOP. TOP doesn’t necessarily mean a defense is not playing well. Or good enough to win games and our defense has DEFINITELY been playing well enough to win games. It’s the offense that’s been letting us down. 

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8 minutes ago, vel said:

And blaming the offense for the defense sucking because of "lack of rest" or whatever is baseless.

BUF opened the game with a 13 play, 6:31 minute drive. Fresh defense. 

Second drive of the second half, after two offensive possessions, defense allows a 19 play, 11:20 minute drive. 

MIA opened the second half, fresh from half time, 15 plays, 8:43 minute drive. Didn't force a single 3 and out to the worst offense in the league. 

Opened the second half vs CAR, 10 plays 5:57 minutes. Fresh from half time. 

Opened the game vs DAL, 9 plays 5:51 minutes. 

First drive of the second vs DAL, 10 plays, 5:57 minutes. Next possession they got a three and out but then responded, after an 8 play 3:55 minute scoring drive from the offense, by allowing a 13 play 4:17 minute drive. 

Most of the longest drives the defense has given up has been when they were fresh, not after some turnover or offensive blunder. Yes, a few have happened because the offense didn't give them a breather. But a lot of them has happened vs below average offenses to open the game or the second half. 

Good defenses don't care about the offense. They play good defense. Ask Seattle. Last year, they were on the field the 8th most on average time of possession, yet were 3rd in points and 5th in points allowed. They didn't whine about being on the field. Even ET came out and said they can win if they are on the field for 40 minutes (after a game in which they were). If that's what this defense is supposed to be, the blunders from the offense can't keep being this crutch yall make it. Shut down below average offenses like MIA, BUF, and CAR. 

We won TOP in the buffalo game vel. I don’t care about a 6 min opening drive. They scored 16 offensive points and we gifted them another 7. Meanwhile we had 2 turnovers, one for the gifted 7. That’s why we lost. Not that TOP BS. They didn’t even SCORE on that opening drive that took 6 minutes so what did that matter?? That’s why your argument isn’t making sense to me bro. It’s just not. I understand the point you’re TRYING To make but that sh*t really don’t matter as much as you’re making cause if they took 6 minutes off the clock and STILL had to punt they obviously didn’t move the ball in scoring position bro. 

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9 minutes ago, vel said:

And blaming the offense for the defense sucking because of "lack of rest" or whatever is baseless.

BUF opened the game with a 13 play, 6:31 minute drive. Fresh defense. 

Second drive of the second half, after two offensive possessions, defense allows a 19 play, 11:20 minute drive. 

MIA opened the second half, fresh from half time, 15 plays, 8:43 minute drive. Didn't force a single 3 and out to the worst offense in the league. 

Opened the second half vs CAR, 10 plays 5:57 minutes. Fresh from half time. 

Opened the game vs DAL, 9 plays 5:51 minutes. 

First drive of the second vs DAL, 10 plays, 5:57 minutes. Next possession they got a three and out but then responded, after an 8 play 3:55 minute scoring drive from the offense, by allowing a 13 play 4:17 minute drive. 

Most of the longest drives the defense has given up has been when they were fresh, not after some turnover or offensive blunder. Yes, a few have happened because the offense didn't give them a breather. But a lot of them has happened vs below average offenses to open the game or the second half. 

Good defenses don't care about the offense. They play good defense. Ask Seattle. Last year, they were on the field the 8th most on average time of possession, yet were 3rd in points and 5th in points allowed. They didn't whine about being on the field. Even ET came out and said they can win if they are on the field for 40 minutes (after a game in which they were). If that's what this defense is supposed to be, the blunders from the offense can't keep being this crutch yall make it. Shut down below average offenses like MIA, BUF, and CAR. 

And that's all good and well. However, who here actually thinks our defense is good enough to defend for ~40 minutes while also being given short fields because of turnovers and not give up points in bunches?

Even if they are (because they have shown flashes of this), it's things like penalties that have repeatedly prevented them from looking a lot better than they have. What if all those game changing turnovers weren't wiped away by penalties? How would the defense look then? Would you still be arguing that the defense has underachieved?

Edited by JerseyNo12
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7 minutes ago, JerseyNo12 said:

The 2010 Falcons' offense was #1 in TOP. As @TheFatboi mentioned, there's a positive correlation between offensive TOP and defensive performance. There's very few defenses in NFL history that were so good that it continued to wreak havoc on opposing offenses regardless of how many offensive possessions they had to defend. Those teams relied on their defense to win games because they knew their offense wasn't very good or just flat out sucked. The 2015 Broncos come to mind.

That being said, I know our current defense can perform better than it has over the last nine games. But it's not like they've been hemorrhaging yards and points like they were last year. 

Take this for comparison. We have a top 10 defense in both PPG and YPG, and yet our offense ranks near the bottom in TOP. The Saints up until this afternoon had a top 10 defense in both PPG and YPG (better than us), but their offense ranked #4 in TOP.

Now case in point. The Saints lost the TOP today by almost two full minutes, and all of a sudden their seemingly much improved defense looked very suspect--to the tune of 456 yards and 31 points.

So it stands to reason that if the offense can sustain drives better, the defense will likewise perform better. It's also possible that the defense improves regardless of what the offense does from here on out. I'm not sure our defense is quite that good just yet. In any case, our best bet is to play complementary football as best as we can from here on out. The defense has to get off the field on 3rd downs. The offense can't turn the ball over and keep stalling.

That's my point. Yes, the offense controlled the ball, but using YPG/PPG isn't the metric to use if we want to say "we have a top ten defense". That 2010 defense was fully protected by the offense because they weren't exposed. An offense that controls the ball limits a defense's exposure to big plays, mistakes, etc. I fully get it. But that defense also wasn't bottom 3 in plays and TOP per drive on their own. They got off the field somehow. It gave the offense more opportunities to eat the clock. That's how you win TOP. 

Our offense ranks "near the bottom" in TOP because of lack of drives. Why is this so hard to understand. League average is 102. Falcons have 89...

The bold is all I'm saying. Yes, the offense is at fault for a lot. I'm not absolving them of anything. But the defense hasn't capitalized on dominating bad offensive units until last Sunday. The performance vs DAL is what I expected vs MIA, BUF and CAR. The talent is there. The talent difference between ATL's defense and those three offenses is as wide as it was vs DAL. Yet, they didn't step up. The defense is good enough to be good, regardless of what the offense is doing. Clayborn went off because he had a gigantic mismatch. But let's not ignore that those 6 sacks are only 6 plays. The entire defense shut Dallas down. All game. The offense could have wet the bed and put up 10 and we still win that game because the defense played their game, not a "complementary" game. They knew they were better than Dallas and played like it. 

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8 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Simple. And since we’re not really a ball control offense our defensive TOP isn’t gonna look so great because even last year this offense wasn’t a ball control offense and was like 19th in TOP. TOP doesn’t necessarily mean a defense is not playing well. Or good enough to win games and our defense has DEFINITELY been playing well enough to win games. It’s the offense that’s been letting us down. 

6th in time of possession per drive in 2016

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17 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

We won TOP in the buffalo game vel. I don’t care about a 6 min opening drive. They scored 16 offensive points and we gifted them another 7. Meanwhile we had 2 turnovers, one for the gifted 7. That’s why we lost. Not that TOP BS. They didn’t even SCORE on that opening drive that took 6 minutes so what did that matter?? That’s why your argument isn’t making sense to me bro. It’s just not. I understand the point you’re TRYING To make but that sh*t really don’t matter as much as you’re making cause if they took 6 minutes off the clock and STILL had to punt they obviously didn’t move the ball in scoring position bro. 

You said the defense underperforms because the offense put them in bad spots. But the offense hadn't had the chance to put them in a bad spot to blame them for that opening drive. Or any of those drives I posted. 

They opened up the game on a 13 play drive, twice BUF's average, that took 6:31, over twice their average. That's a major outlier drive for BUF, with the defense fresh out the gate. That drive didn't lead to points, but the punt pinned our offense at the 1, again contributing to the worst field position in the league. The offense responds by getting to the 50 (this is where yards per drive comes in), but ran out of gas and had to punt. If they started from the 20-25 yard line, that's a scoring drive. Instead, "the defense didn't give up points" sounds good until you factor in they put the offense in a bad position. Defending a bad offense. 

Check the Dallas game. Look at the starting position of their scoring drives. Hint: it wasn't the 1 yard line.

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10 minutes ago, JerseyNo12 said:

And that's all good and well. However, who here actually thinks our defense is good enough to defend for ~40 minutes while also being given short fields because of turnovers and not give up points in bunches?

Even if they are (because they have shown flashes of this), it's things like penalties that have repeatedly prevented them from looking a lot better than they have. What if all those game changing turnovers weren't wiped away by penalties? How would the defense look then? Would you still be arguing that the defense has underachieved?

What do you mean? This is a top ten defense! It's ranked higher than Seattle's! 

That's the point I'm making. They aren't there yet. Yes, the penalties happened. But that's a contributor to the underachievement. Mistakes. Stupid mistakes. Vic jumping offsides last game negated a pick and it wasn't even a hard count. Unforced errors. Tru holding to negate Alford's INT is another. Just like the drops by the offense. What if all those WRs didn't drop/tip those passes that led to INTs? Totally different look. But they did. 

I don't care about 7th in YPG and 10th in PPG because Smitty had multiple top ten scoring defenses and nobody thought we had good defenses then. I care about per drive performance and holding offenses to below average production. That's a mark of a good defense in my opinion. 

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Not sure why the defense that allowed far more PPG last year is suddenly the reason the offense isn't doing well this year. Field position is a 3 phase issue for this team right now. Our rushing offense hasn't been as good as last year and the explosive pass plays are basically non-existant in comparison. The past few games has shown life.

Offense stalling out is because we aren't as lethal at taking our shots like last year. What's our yards per play average? I know Matt's YPA is way down and we have probably punted way more this year than last season at this rate. Is that really on the defense?

This team was built on offense and has several year 1-3 players on D. Beginning to show much better life than last year sans-the turnover difference but it's again a team issue with offense giving it away far more this year and the defense not getting enough INTs (penalties negating them or not)

You sort of have a point Vel but it seems like a counter point without much weight considering the context of this team vs 2016. Still not a dominant D but we have our favorable matchups now compared to last year when we wondered if we'd be in a shootout all playoffs. So yeah compared to shoutouts last year we're in lower scoring games. Didn't everyone know that's the MO vs Atlanta? Limit the time available for our offense to have the ball and overall number of possessions. That is why if anything the run defense is critical for us and 3rd down D. It's why Carolina best us and other teams like Bills. Could it be we aren't running up the score and teams don't have to abandon the run line last year? Could that be why the rush yards are up and the pass is way down? They don't need to score a lot if we don't. What games have we score 3+ in the first half this year? Our 2nd halfs have sucked and the 1st hasn't been as explosive.

However, what did the offense do with the ball in the BUF/MIA games? The formerly historic offense turned it over several times and punted/Downs turnover. The Miami game was a choke job by both sides of the ball as well. Honestly, think 2016 Falcons vs this team and what is missing? Y'all really think it's the defense? No way, it's explosive turnovers maybe but the biggest factor has been the offense. Red zone efficiency and overall team effort at the field position problem. Field position is important but shouldn't be the only reason we've failed to be explosive with 20+ passes and the YPA for Matt dropping?

Edited by slimjim
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6 hours ago, slimjim said:

Not sure why the defense that allowed far more PPG last year is suddenly the reason the offense isn't doing well this year. Field position is a 3 phase issue for this team right now. Our rushing offense hasn't been as good as last year and the explosive pass plays are basically non-existant in comparison. The past few games has shown life.

Offense stalling out is because we aren't as lethal at taking our shots like last year. What's our yards per play average? I know Matt's YPA is way down and we have probably punted way more this year than last season at this rate. Is that really on the defense?

This team was built on offense and has several year 1-3 players on D. Beginning to show much better life than last year sans-the turnover difference but it's again a team issue with offense giving it away far more this year and the defense not getting enough INTs (penalties negating them or not)

You sort of have a point Vel but it seems like a counter point without much weight considering the context of this team vs 2016. Still not a dominant D but we have our favorable matchups now compared to last year when we wondered if we'd be in a shootout all playoffs. So yeah compared to shoutouts last year we're in lower scoring games. Didn't everyone know that's the MO vs Atlanta? Limit the time available for our offense to have the ball and overall number of possessions. That is why if anything the run defense is critical for us and 3rd down D. It's why Carolina best us and other teams like Bills. Could it be we aren't running up the score and teams don't have to abandon the run line last year? Could that be why the rush yards are up and the pass is way down? They don't need to score a lot if we don't. What games have we score 3+ in the first half this year? Our 2nd halfs have sucked and the 1st hasn't been as explosive.

However, what did the offense do with the ball in the BUF/MIA games? The formerly historic offense turned it over several times and punted/Downs turnover. The Miami game was a choke job by both sides of the ball as well. Honestly, think 2016 Falcons vs this team and what is missing? Y'all really think it's the defense? No way, it's explosive turnovers maybe but the biggest factor has been the offense. Red zone efficiency and overall team effort at the field position problem. Field position is important but shouldn't be the only reason we've failed to be explosive with 20+ passes and the YPA for Matt dropping?

Our defense is built to play with a lead. Anybody think any different is fooling themselves. The hawks defense was built to play with a lead. The saints improved defense is built to play with a lead and it showed when they DIDNT have a lead yesterday. Our offense is not a grind the click offense. We’re a quick strike chunk yardage pass first offense and those offenses typically aren’t gonna control the clock. It’s why chip Kelley didn’t make it with Philly. He’d score so quickly that eventually it tired out his defense. Like we did ours last year. Like i said I get what Vel is trying to say I really do but you have to consider the kind of team we are. If this was Michael Turners offense with THIS defense we’d rule the TOP on defense because THAT offense sustained 10 play drives. We’re not that kinda team anymore. So when our offense stalls it falls on the defense. But the defense is getting stops. Nobody has scored over 23 points on our defense. GB and NE scored the most points and they have lethal offenses. Detroit only managed 19 offensive points. Buffalo only managed 13 offensive points. So to me all that TOP sh*t in THIS teams universe ain’t as important because the offense hasn’t delivered when we needed them most. Even tho most of the turnovers were flukey they still happened. Now the REAL complaint with the defense to me is negating great play with penalties and nit taking advantage of the opportunities they get like dropping picks and the ball not bouncing our way when we force fumbles. THATS the gripe I have with the defense. Not TOP because I’m the grand scheme of things that’s an offensive stat to me. Offenses control the game usually by running the ball. We ain’t that kind of offense. Matt still doesn’t let the play clock hit 1 so HOW is the defense faulted when the offenses THEY face is running the play clock down traditionally??? Weird stance from my man @vel  

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you’re offense dictates what your defense does when it comes to TOP depending if you have a ball control offense(run first offense) or a quick strike offense(pass first offense). And since we are a team supposedly to have a super offense the defense follows the offenses lead. Even the SB ravens with Dilfer had GREAT ball control and left little time for opposing teams against THAT defense. TOP is predicated on what your offense does. Not your defense. We’re not a grind the clock offense. We weren’t last year either. H3ll I’m the SB Matt was sapping the ball with 14 seconds left on the play clock and we throw blame at the defense in TOP?? How Sway??!!!!  Especially when I’ve WATCHED this years defense get 3 and outs numerous times when before they really started gelling. 

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Predictable consecutive runs up the gut is the heel of this team. Like a **** handicap and makes 3rd and long that more difficult. 

Stay away from those sequences and this team has a chance in any game. Defense has proven that. 

Ryan has to put his foot down and shake off those calls when they come in.

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