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If You Could Go Back to November 8, 2016 How Would You Vote, Knowing What You Know Now?


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If You Could Go Back to November 8, 2016 How Would You Vote, Knowing What You Know Now?  

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  1. 1. How Did You Vote Then, How would you vote now?

    • Clinton Then, Clinton Now
    • Clinton Then, Trump Now
    • Clinton Then, 3rd Party/Not Vote Now
    • Trump Then, Trump Now
    • Trump Then, Clinton Now
    • Trump Then, 3rd Party/Not Vote Now
    • 3rd Party/Not Vote Then, 3rd Party/Not Vote Now
    • 3rd Party/Not Vote Then, Trump Now
    • 3rd Party/Not Vote Now, Clinton Now
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34 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

“The DNC is responsible for the GOP base being crazy and electing someone who is unfit and unprepared to be President.  Hopefully those Democrats learned a lesson about the insane people who vote in Republican primaries!”

Yeah...not buying it.

The thing is:  I OWN voting for Trump.  And I OWN that it was a HUGE mistake.  It is a mistake I will NOT make again.

Why did I make that huge mistake?

I never imagined for a moment that America could elect someone like Trump.

I never imagined we would be so stupid.

The real problem is that NO ONE will say "Gee, Trump is a complete disaster and I was really dumb to vote for Trump or not cast a vote that would prevent Trump from becoming President."

They say:

"Trump is not a complete disaster"

"Clinton would have been a bigger disaster"

"Perpetuating the two party system is a bigger disaster than electing Trump"

"The disaster is the fault of the party that could not beat Trump"

The worse the consequence, the more committed we become to the rationalizatioon.

The nightmarish consequences don't alter our commitment, it alters our rationalization. 

I'm not going to rationalize my mistake.  I screwed up.  I won't next time.  At least not in the same manner.

 

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Also, if the GOP had not been so far right culturally and economically then Democrats would not have needed to engage in identity politics.  So really, it’s the GOP far right agenda that is responsible for the left’s identity politics.  Republicans need to reflect on their role in creating identity politics.

See how that works?

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1 hour ago, holymoses said:

The real problem is that NO ONE will say "Gee, Trump is a complete disaster and I was really dumb to vote for Trump or not cast a vote that would prevent Trump from becoming President."

Gee.  We don't think we're dumb just because we didn't vote for your candidate.

But you think we're dumb (by implication).

This is the problem with your argument.  It's not that any of us likes Trump.  It's that we don't see him as the danger you see him as.  We think he's a bad president, but we don't wake up at night and think the tornado siren is actually a signal that we're being attacked by nuclear warheads from N. Korea.  And we sure don't think we're stupid for not voting for your candidate to prevent a nuclear holocaust (or whatever else you conjure up) that only exists in the space between your ears.

I love you brother -- but seriously, this is paranoia.  I can't characterize it any other way.  You need some perspective.  Trump isn't even as bad as Nixon, and we survived Nixon.  Maybe he will be as bad or worse, but he isn't yet, and I have no reason to think that he will be.  Too many Republicans thought Obama was the worst president ever too.  And when people I admire and respect do the same thing in reverse, I worry about how far our public discourse has gone that we literally think this combover-laden mango-tinted clown is going to bring the entire country down with his tweets.  Trump probably isn't even the 5th worst president in history as things stand today, and bad presidents usually don't damage the country (I might make an exception for James Buchanan and Nixon here).  We'll be just fine.  Seriously.  We've survived worse than this by far.

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1 hour ago, Leon Troutsky said:

“The DNC is responsible for the GOP base being crazy and electing someone who is unfit and unprepared to be President.  Hopefully those Democrats learned a lesson about the insane people who vote in Republican primaries!”

Yeah...not buying it.

elitism at its finest

"The party I support made sure that America only had two pieces of chit to choose from and I blame people for voting for the nastier piece of chit."

does that absolve people of the responsibility of the consequences of their choice in Trump? not at all but stop pretending like the people who insured that chit show was going to happen don't bear some of it

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1 hour ago, Dago 3.0 said:

elitism at its finest

"The party I support made sure that America only had two pieces of chit to choose from and I blame people for voting for the nastier piece of chit."

does that absolve people of the responsibility of the consequences of their choice in Trump? not at all but stop pretending like the people who insured that chit show was going to happen don't bear some of it

It is mostly because I don't see Trump as a literal disaster and threat to the survival of the planet that I am able to still get a hearty laugh out of the crossover voting thing.  Not to continue to pile on HM -- he's had enough -- but the writ large notion that voting in the other party's primary is an effective strategy is billion times more hilarious when 1) the worst candidate your party could have put up won easily, and 2) the lunatic you wanted to put up against her for the other party as cannon fodder actually won. You couldn't script that.  Someone should write a book about it:

"When Getting Cute Goes Wrong:  How to Outsmart Yourself in Electoral Politics."

Do I like President Trump?  No.  Do I appreciate how this election provides humor to those of us who believe our country is strong enough to survive his presidency?  Yes.  Yes I do.  I laughed like a mental patient from about 10:30 or so on election night.  My wife came in the living room twice to ask me to quiet down.  It still cracks me up.  

Our country deserves this.  That isn't a fun position to take, but it's more fun if you can at least find the humor in it.

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5 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Our country deserves this.  That isn't a fun position to take, but it's more fun if you can at least find the humor in it.

We do deserve it, but I wonder what types of candidates this election will produce in the future.  We just saw Roy freakin' Moore, a man twice removed as the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, win the runoff to be the GOP senate candidate. 

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28 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

We do deserve it, but I wonder what types of candidates this election will produce in the future.  We just saw Roy freakin' Moore, a man twice removed as the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, win the runoff to be the GOP senate candidate. 

I would settle for a candidate who would thinks putin is more of a sob than us citizens demonstrating their constitutionally protected rights of peaceful protests........that is just me though.

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39 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

We do deserve it, but I wonder what types of candidates this election will produce in the future.  We just saw Roy freakin' Moore, a man twice removed as the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, win the runoff to be the GOP senate candidate. 

Democrats will continue to be pulled left by their base while Republicans will continue to nominate increasingly cartoonish figures.

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52 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

We do deserve it, but I wonder what types of candidates this election will produce in the future.  We just saw Roy freakin' Moore, a man twice removed as the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, win the runoff to be the GOP senate candidate. 

Unfortunately what people like Bannon are seeking to acomplish  (and I think all too successfully) is making sure the hard right nationalist aperatus is well in place long after they either lose or drop Trump. 

Roy Moore just won an election in which Bannon and and Palin went around telling people a vote for Moore was a vote for the Trump agenda despite the fact that Trump had literally endorsed the other guy. I wonder if we might not get to a point where Trump isn't even necessary and the MAGA monster is a sentient creature on its own.

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10 minutes ago, AF89 said:

I wonder if we might not get to a point where Trump isn't even necessary and the MAGA monster is a sentient creature on its own.

I think we're already there.  The Trump base would have supported any MAGA guy that wasn't an establishment RINO with equal fervor as long as they said the same, right things - Wall, shut off immigration, repeal Obamacare, protect 2nd amendment, etc . . . And it's going to continue after Trump is out of office, no matter how that may come about. 

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5 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

I think we're already there.  The Trump base would have supported any MAGA guy that wasn't an establishment RINO with equal fervor as long as they said the same, right things - Wall, shut off immigration, repeal Obamacare, protect 2nd amendment, etc . . . And it's going to continue after Trump is out of office, no matter how that may come about. 

To be fair, the Democrats ran a guy against him who just publicly said he supports no restrictions whatsoever on abortion until after the child is born, at which point he becomes pro life.

Why is that a bad thing?  Well, they're running in Ala-effing-bama for starters.  So yeah, the Trump faithful are reactionary.  But Democrats seem **** bent on giving them the boogeyman they so desire.

When the cold war was coming to a close, I think it was one of Gorbachev's higher ups who told one of our higher ups "Russia just did the cruelest thing to America. We deprived you of an enemy."  I wonder if a large portion of the Republican base is willing to be so deprived, and I sure wonder if the Democrats are capable of doing the depriving.

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41 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

To be fair, the Democrats ran a guy against him who just publicly said he supports no restrictions whatsoever on abortion until after the child is born, at which point he becomes pro life.

Why is that a bad thing?  Well, they're running in Ala-effing-bama for starters.  So yeah, the Trump faithful are reactionary.  But Democrats seem **** bent on giving them the boogeyman they so desire.

When the cold war was coming to a close, I think it was one of Gorbachev's higher ups who told one of our higher ups "Russia just did the cruelest thing to America. We deprived you of an enemy."  I wonder if a large portion of the Republican base is willing to be so deprived, and I sure wonder if the Democrats are capable of doing the depriving.

Jon "I'm basically a Republican" Ossoff didn't work out so well despite all the money the DNC dumped on him so Democrats might as well run someone with liberal to left views in almost impossible elections like Alabama to see what happens.

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On 9/27/2017 at 1:22 PM, WhenFalconsWin said:

I didn't even read your stupid poll HM, I vote because I did my homework on the candidates.  Those of us who voted for Trump understood what we had in a candidate when we got him elected.  Now matter how much the scm/FNN  try and control the "It's" like you, they are not influencing me one iota

Amen brotha. is he perfect? i has been been a Dum ARSE some?  No and YES. But compared to what she brought to the table. It was an easy choice for me. And this is kind of an exercise in futility... you cant go back. Don't you people listen to Eddie Money?

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7 hours ago, holymoses said:

The thing is:  I OWN voting for Trump.  And I OWN that it was a HUGE mistake.  It is a mistake I will NOT make again.

Why did I make that huge mistake?

I never imagined for a moment that America could elect someone like Trump.

I never imagined we would be so stupid.

The real problem is that NO ONE will say "Gee, Trump is a complete disaster and I was really dumb to vote for Trump or not cast a vote that would prevent Trump from becoming President."

They say:

"Trump is not a complete disaster"

"Clinton would have been a bigger disaster"

"Perpetuating the two party system is a bigger disaster than electing Trump"

"The disaster is the fault of the party that could not beat Trump"

The worse the consequence, the more committed we become to the rationalizatioon.

The nightmarish consequences don't alter our commitment, it alters our rationalization. 

I'm not going to rationalize my mistake.  I screwed up.  I won't next time.  At least not in the same manner.

 

I voted Trump and would not do so in a "do-over." It's embarrassing just how much of a oatmeal headed pompous idiot he actually is that he won't even listen to his advisors or moreso even back away from the **** twitter machine. 

If there's anything that I've personally learned from this **** show it's that I hope there can actually be two legit candidates next time, both with their own legit positive attributes. 

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On 9/28/2017 at 10:53 AM, holymoses said:

The real problem is that NO ONE will say "Gee, Trump is a complete disaster and I was really dumb to vote for Trump or not cast a vote that would prevent Trump from becoming President."

Guys I'm telling ya it's so much more entertaining when you read stuff like this in Gilbert Gottfried's voice.

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20 minutes ago, Billy Ocean said:

Guys I'm telling ya it's so much more entertaining when you read stuff like this in Gilbert Gottfried's voice.

You know, we all get those little notifications: "falconRyansuper45 quoted you....".  

When I get one that says "Billy Ocean quoted...." I ALWAYS  say to myself ( though not in a Gilbert Godfrey voice).  "I'm not going to like this, but it should be interesting."

 It's one of the few things my self is always right about. 

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1 hour ago, holymoses said:

You know, we all get those little notifications: "falconRyansuper45 quoted you....".  

When I get one that says "Billy Ocean quoted...." I ALWAYS  say to myself ( though not in a Gilbert Godfrey voice).  "I'm not going to like this, but it should be interesting."

 It's one of the few things my self is always right about. 

This probably belongs in the other thread (about Hugh Hefner), but this is easily one of Gilbert's finest moments:

 

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Clinton then, Clinton now. But I do think Bernie would have won in real life. And I'll go to my grave thinking that the DNC should have done absolutely everything imaginable to get a Clinton/Sanders ticket. Unfortunately, that didnt happen. 

Re: Clinton, she's not an ideal choice in the least but a vastly superior choice to 45 by pretty much every conceivable measure. 

Selfishly, I'm upset that the first post-Obama "republican" to get elected is such an outlier candidate. It defaults a lot of opposition to his unique brand of lunacy to "oh just you liberals hating on a conservative" narratives. I would have much preferred a conservative with competence and capability that I merely disagreed with on policy. Instead, we've got this embarrassment of a situation. 

I can't overstate how bad I think the Trump thing is. It's like "shaking the philosophical underpinnings of the country" bad. But at least its not "totalitarian dictatorship" bad. 

 

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On 9/28/2017 at 3:51 PM, Skeetbird said:

Amen brotha. is he perfect? i has been been a Dum ARSE some?  No and YES. But compared to what she brought to the table. It was an easy choice for me. And this is kind of an exercise in futility... you cant go back. Don't you people listen to Eddie Money?

Absolutely not.

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