Robb4242

Did the refs REALLY get the call right?

114 posts in this topic

To answer the title question, it's yes and no.  Yes, absolutely Tate was down before crossing the goal line.  There is absolutely no doubt about that.  In that respect the call was absolutely correct.

 

Here is where, after several hours of sitting on this, I can say now that I think they also got the call wrong.  I believe that this was such an important call in this game that the ONLY thing reviewed was, did the knee touch the ground after the defense made contact with the receiver.  I don't think they looked at anything else.  Why is that important?  Because the clock showed 8 seconds.  In reviews, when a play is overturned, the replay officials and the refs are also supposed to look at the clock.  What did the clock say when Tate was down?  If you go back and look, Tate was touched down with 11 seconds left on the clock.  The correct call would have been to add 3 seconds back to the clock, THEN have the 10 second runoff.  This would have left 1 second on the clock for Detroit to run a play.  I'm **** glad they made that mistake.

From the NFL Rulebook (http://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2017-nfl-rulebook/#rule-15.-officials-and-instant-replay):

Quote
Article 2. Replay Official's Request for Review

A Replay Review will be initiated by a Replay Official from a Replay Booth comparable to the location of the coaches’ booth or Press Box when the on-field ruling is:

  1. a score for either team;
  2. an interception;
  3. a fumble or backward pass that is recovered by an opponent or goes out of bounds through an opponent’s end zone; or
  4. a muffed scrimmage kick recovered by the kicking team;
  5. after the two minute warning of each half; and
  6. throughout any overtime period.

There is no limit to the number of Replay Reviews that may be initiated by the Replay Official. The Replay Official’s ability to initiate a review will be unrelated to the number of timeouts that either team has remaining, and no timeout will be charged for any review initiated by the Replay Official. The Replay Official must initiate a review before the ball is next legally put in play.

The Replay Official and designated members of the Officiating department at the League office may consult with the on-field officials to provide information on the correct application of playing rules, including appropriate assessment of penalty yardage, proper down, and status of the game clock.

As you can see in the picture below (I couldn't get it perfect), The clock is in the process of changing from 11 to 10.  At this point, Tate had already been touched by Poole, so he was technically down.  When replay identified that Tate did not score, the proper thing to do would have been to identify the precise second that he was down.  With that being 11 seconds, the clock should have been adjusted and then the 10 second runoff should have happened, leaving 1 second on the clock.

Tate down.jpg

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2 minutes ago, SkerFalcon8710 said:

so they set the ball... have a 10 second run off and leave the center ref 1 second to get in position and people think the lions can hike the ball in that 1 second while the ref moves out of the way?

 

DOUBTFULLLLLLL

All they need to do is line up and snap it on the officials whistle and try a QB sneak.  They'd likely get that off

 

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I'm thinking it's at 10..but even if not, we've been on the wrong side of so many bad calls, I don't feel bad for one going our way for once...they missed calls on us too like Julio being interfered with near the endzone..it was just like, but maybe not as bad as, when Seattle held his arm down and got the no call

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Just now, Robb4242 said:

All they need to do is line up and snap it on the officials whistle and try a QB sneak.  They'd likely get that off

 

ref has to have time to get set and would likely be over the ball during the 10 second run off. o well we won, im not gonna feel sorry for the lions after years of us getting hosed on call many of which were in prime time spotlights. For once our team is getting SOME calls and the defense is making stands when it needs to..

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Upon further reading of the rule, the clock being set goes to the time an official started to made an a call of either down or touchdown, so maybe that is why the clock wasn't set back or at least not back to 11.  The side judge doesn't start in until 10 seconds on the clock, so maybe it is at 0, can't see the other officials or hear a whistle from this replay.  Still too close for comfort and we got lucky at the end.

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3 minutes ago, Robb4242 said:

All they need to do is line up and snap it on the officials whistle and try a QB sneak.  They'd likely get that off

 

They would not have one second.  They would have a fraction of a second.  clock was turning.    Let it go.    

 

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3 minutes ago, Falcan Moore said:

You got that picture from Reddit, right? It's pretty biased. More accurate would be posting a gif of the play, this is pretty much the frame before it turned to 10 seconds. The play started with 12 seconds on the clock. There's a reason there are no 1 second plays.

No, actually, I made the copy from video off of NFL.com.  I quick clicked to stop the video and then pasted into paint to save then post here.  I try to get my own stuff instead of relying on other sites because it can be manipulated.

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3 minutes ago, Tandy said:

They would not have one second.  They would have a fraction of a second.  clock was turning.    Let it go.    

 

Having been on the wrong side of so many of these type calls/games, I'd just rather win legit than have there be questions about it.

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3 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

The rule is there is a ten second run off. That's the rule. Its the rule. Those are the rules. Rules are rules.

Yes it is, but was he down at 10 seconds or 11?  That's all I was asking.  He's actually touched down at 11, so where is the clock supposed to be?

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You are absolutely wrong. The clock doesn't stop when the player hits the ground. It's when the play is competed and refs whistle theplay dead or TD. If you see the replay, Golden Tate is still stretching his arm at 10 second mark. You can clearly see him arched and not completely on the ground though he is down by contact at that point. Any ref would let the play complete till Tate is on ground or stop the forward motion. IMG_0743.thumb.PNG.0c0720408dae0fa05586a31382a39b76.PNG

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Which call?  The defensive hold on the interception, the PI in the endzone or the nocall earlier when Julio had his right arm pulled down in the endzone?

Personally, they owed us that.  Frankly, I am past sick of how poorly we are officiated.  That's why when I ***** about how the media talks about our team, it isn't about "respect", it is about narrative.  When Golden Tate draws more flags than Julio Jones, there is a problem.

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1 minute ago, falcons007 said:

You are absolutely wrong. The clock doesn't stop when the player hits the ground. It's when the play is competed and refs whistle theplay dead or TD. If you see the replay, Golden Tate is still stretching his arm at 10 second mark. You can clearly see him arched and not completely on the ground though he is down by contact at that point. Any ref would let the play complete till Tate is on ground or stop the forward motion. IMG_0743.thumb.PNG.0c0720408dae0fa05586a31382a39b76.PNG

Exactly. There's always a second or two runoff at the end of a play. 

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1 minute ago, falcons007 said:

You are absolutely wrong. The clock doesn't stop when the player hits the ground. It's when the play is competed and refs whistle theplay dead or TD. If you see the replay, Golden Tate is still stretching his arm at 10 second mark. You can clearly see him arched and not completely on the ground though he is down by contact at that point. Any ref would let the play complete till Tate is on ground or stop the forward motion. IMG_0743.thumb.PNG.0c0720408dae0fa05586a31382a39b76.PNG

This is where my question was.  In replay, they can adjust the clock, so where do they adjust it to?  Is it when he's technically down?  Or is it some point after that?  I think I found the answer was after, but it's not completely clear.

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Just now, Robb4242 said:

This is where my question was.  In replay, they can adjust the clock, so where do they adjust it to?  Is it when he's technically down?  Or is it some point after that?  I think I found the answer was after, but it's not completely clear.

You can clearly see referee letting it play on the side line. That was absolutely correct call and the 8 seconds was the time when Tate completed the play. 

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Okay so if they had 11 seconds it's still a ten second run off and they have one second after the ref sets the ball down. Game over.

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4 minutes ago, Robb4242 said:

Yes it is, but was he down at 10 seconds or 11?  That's all I was asking.  He's actually touched down at 11, so where is the clock supposed to be?

The clock runs 2-3 seconds past the number which made it 8. Its not on the money and never will be. That's not how it works.

AF89, Skip, Jerz and 1 other like this

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Just now, Colin_Pernett said:

Okay so if they had 11 seconds it's still a ten second run off and they have one second after the ref sets the ball down. Game over.

Bingo.

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