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What exactly is Vic Beasley?


bdog 29
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This might be a question for someone like @PeytonMannings Forehead who understands the nuances of football a bit better than me. From what I gather listening to announcers and whatnot, Vic is a linebacker. I'm assuming he starts at WLB since Debo is our MLB and Campbell is the SLB. However, he rushes on almost every play. As far as I know, having a rush linebacker is more of a staple of 3-4 defenses. Demarcus Ware, Khalil Mack, and Von Miller are examples of 3-4 linebackers who rush all the time. Rushers in 4-3s are usually defensive ends. When Dallas brought in a 4-3 defense for example, Ware was "converted" to a hands in the dirt 4-3 defensive end.

Our defense is different in that Vic is listed as a LB but he always has his hands in the dirt like an end. Could anyone explain why this is? Is this a staple of Quinn's defense? Or is this just an issue of semantics?

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  1. 1:  a mythological being with more power than a mortal but less than a god

  2. 2:  a person so outstanding as to seem to approach the divine

 

 

if I'm being serious, then he's a pass rusher. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. He's going to line up outside a tackle, usually the right one, and try to get into the backfield.

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7 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

He's an LEO. On the depth chart, he's a linebacker. But, he lines up as a pass rushing end on passing downs. He's like a hybrid player. He's used for QB spying a lot as well for those runners that like to get out of the pocket.

This

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The defense is going to be a lote more dynamic this year.  Last year these young guys could run fast but they had to think about which way they were running.  This year Poe is going to be collapsing the middle and these guys are going to be coming from the outside from all different kinds of directions.  Beasley's sacks are going to go down this year, probably way down, but there are going to be a bunch of other guys with 4 to 6 sacks each I think.

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1 minute ago, Peyton said:

The defense is going to be a lote more dynamic this year.  Last year these young guys could run fast but they had to think about which way they were running.  This year Poe is going to be collapsing the middle and these guys are going to be coming from the outside from all different kinds of directions.  Beasley's sacks are going to go down this year, probably way down, but there are going to be a bunch of other guys with 4 to 6 sacks each I think.

You're right in that they'll go down. But he's still a star pass rusher. I'm thinking 8.5-10.5 range is what he'll probably get

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17 minutes ago, Peyton said:

The defense is going to be a lote more dynamic this year.  Last year these young guys could run fast but they had to think about which way they were running.  This year Poe is going to be collapsing the middle and these guys are going to be coming from the outside from all different kinds of directions.  Beasley's sacks are going to go down this year, probably way down, but there are going to be a bunch of other guys with 4 to 6 sacks each I think.

Last year was sort of an anamoly anyway, he wasn't quite as good as his numbers indicated as he got a few cheap sacks. His totals will Be more difficult to get this year as teams will be more focused on containing him.

scary part is he's not close yet to reaching his full potential. Very scary.

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29 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

He's an LEO. On the depth chart, he's a linebacker. But, he lines up as a pass rushing end on passing downs. He's like a hybrid player. He's used for QB spying a lot as well for those runners that like to get out of the pocket.

Is LEO how you abbreviate left defensive end or is this another position altogether?

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3 minutes ago, bdog 29 said:

Is LEO how you abbreviate left defensive end or is this another position altogether?

LEO is a defensive end who plays sort of a hybrid position in our defense.  He mostly rushes the passer, but they can drop him on occasion for zone blitzes and so forth.  And, FWIW, Beasley isn't ordinarily a LEO.  He takes some snaps there, but they like him playing SAM and rushing from the left side of the line (usually the strong side) more than rushing against the team's best tackle.  Reed was our LEO last year, and he will likely split time with Takk if Takk is ready for that role this year (otherwise Takk will be a nickel DE).

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15 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Last year was sort of an anamoly anyway, he wasn't quite as good as his numbers indicated as he got a few cheap sacks. His totals will Be more difficult to get this year as teams will be more focused on containing him.

scary part is he's not close yet to reaching his full potential. Very scary.

I think he's always going to be lethal when he can get a clear run at below average tackles. And he's always going to be able to loop back inside for sacks. But overall, you're totally right. His pressure to conversion rate was unsustainable. While I think his ability to strip sack is a legitimate strength, he's going to need to keep getting better at the less developed parts of his game. 

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Think of how Khalil Mack has been used in Oakland.

 

Beasley is a SLB that will come down to the line as a nickel DE. Still wonder how Campbell will be used as a SLB though.

 

Takk will be more of the LEO in base sets while joining Beasley as the opposite bookend rusher in nickel.

 

LEO and SLB are pretty much interchangeable so you never know.

 

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2 minutes ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

 

Think of how Khalil Mack has been used in Oakland.

 

Beasley is a SLB that will come down to the line as a nickel DE. Still wonder how Campbell will be used as a SLB though.

 

Takk will be more of the LEO in base sets while joining Beasley as the opposite bookend rusher in nickel.

 

LEO and SLB are pretty much interchangeable so you never know.

 

They're not exactly interchangeable, but they're closer in our system than weak side DE and SAM would be in a normal 4-3.  They aren't quite the same, though, as the OLB positions in a 3-4 either.

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25 minutes ago, bdog 29 said:

Is LEO how you abbreviate left defensive end or is this another position altogether?

To my understanding, LEO doesn't actually abbreviate anything which I know is silly. Imagine a hybrid defense that runs a base 4-3, but sometimes has looks at 3-4. The design of this defense is to have 3 guys that can stop the run and have fast players be able to rush from the outside. Beasley is a better version of Bruce Irvin who had the same role as him when he played for Seattle. Irvin lined up at SAM but on passing downs, converts to end essentially. Other posters like JDaveG, Vandy, or PMF can explain this better than I can. But that's kinda the nutshell version.

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Just now, JD dirtybird21 said:

To my understanding, LEO doesn't actually abbreviate anything which I know is silly. Imagine a hybrid defense that runs a base 4-3, but sometimes has looks at 3-4. The design of this defense is to have 3 guys that can stop the run and have fast players be able to rush from the outside. Beasley is a better version of Bruce Irvin who had the same role as him when he played for Seattle. Irvin lined up at SAM but on passing downs, converts to end essentially. Other posters like JDaveG, Vandy, or PMF can explain this better than I can. But that's kinda the nutshell version.

The term is from Pete Carroll's defensive terminology (the strong side DE, the 5 technique, is called the "OTTO."  It doesn't mean anything and is not an abbreviation of anything.

My recollection is that Monte Kiffin used the same position but called it the "elephant" position. It's just a name.  Basically it means "the weak side DE in our 4-3 base who plays a 9-technique."

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1 minute ago, JDaveG said:

The term is from Pete Carroll's defensive terminology (the strong side DE, the 5 technique, is called the "OTTO."  It doesn't mean anything and is not an abbreviation of anything.

My recollection is that Monte Kiffin used the same position but called it the "elephant" position. It's just a name.  Basically it means "the weak side DE in our 4-3 base who plays a 9-technique."

Like I said, you could explain it better than me lol.

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1 minute ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

Like I said, you could explain it better than me lol.

It's not all that good an explanation.  I left out that the elephant position was at one time just a formation where they aligned the weak side DE that way and used a 4-3 formation aligned in an under front, but over time it melded into the position being called "elephant" and then later "LEO."

It's kind of a long and complicated story, and I really only know the very basics of it.  Someone like Larry or Vel or Random Fan would be better at explaining it than I am.  They could really dig in.

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1 minute ago, JDaveG said:

It's not all that good an explanation.  I left out that the elephant position was at one time just a formation where they aligned the weak side DE that way and used a 4-3 formation aligned in an under front, but over time it melded into the position being called "elephant" and then later "LEO."

It's kind of a long and complicated story, and I really only know the very basics of it.  Someone like Larry or Vel or Random Fan would be better at explaining it than I am.  They could really dig in.

Yea good call on them. I just know that Beasley doesn't have a sole role on the defense. He has several roles. IMO he's the most important player on defense.

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4 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

They're not exactly interchangeable, but they're closer in our system than weak side DE and SAM would be in a normal 4-3.  They aren't quite the same, though, as the OLB positions in a 3-4 either.

 

The WLB and the MLB are both more like ILBs in the scheme.

 

The SLB in Quinn's scheme is pretty much like the SLB in a 3-4. Both play closer to the line and have to be able cover and rush.

 

LEO is the weakside and primary rusher in the defense.

 

 

Both the LEO and SLB will probably allow Beasley and Takk to be used in different ways because they are both athletic LB/DE hybrid players. I like to see how Campbell plays into this due to Quinn's desire to have him rushing more often. Could see Campbell at SLB coming alongside Beasley from the left side while Takk comes from the weakside at times.

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