PensacolaFalcon Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said: QB winning% is a stat that is tracked and will likely become official in our lifetime. The QB can affect a game more than any other player. Positively and negatively. Cam Newton and Michael Vick were both highly instrumental in several of their team's wins. Way more so than Bortles, Mariota, Cousins or Luck. I'd take either one of em over those guys and beat your as. Trust me. Sorry but QB win % is a bogus stat until QBs start playing both ways for reference see Great QB with sub par team .. aka Dan Marino vs Sub par QB with a great team ... aka Trent Dilfer ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD-FalconFan13 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 26 minutes ago, SamMills51 said: Same. McCaffrey gonna make Neal look like a fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEC Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Arguing about which QB is better is pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyicefalcon Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 6 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said: Is anyone watching this game? OMG!!! It's only preseason but the Panthers look really bad. It's 17-0 Titans. Panthers offense has had the ball for exactly 5 plays and turned it over 2 times. They are going to dearly miss Sean McDermott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFanSince1970 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, PensacolaFalcon said: Sorry but QB win % is a bogus stat until QBs start playing both ways for reference see Great QB with sub par team .. aka Dan Marino vs Sub par QB with a great team ... aka Trent Dilfer ... QB Winning% is not bogus. QBs win and lose games at a high rate. And can yall stop posting the Marino and Dilfer anomalies? Do you think Cam sucks too? If so you just might be clueless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidecar Falcon Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Lmao Wins and losses are a team stat, PERIOD. QBs can benefit/suffer based on their supporting cast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller2Rison Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1970 said: QB Winning% is not bogus. QBs win and lose games at a high rate. And can yall stop posting the Marino and Dilfer anomalies? Do you think Cam sucks too? If so you just might be clueless. Cam has physical talent but shows weak mental toughness, hes easily rattled and when he starts getting hit he makes eratic throws, he tries to be a physical runner then gets banged up by doing so, he also isnt a very good leader of his team and will throw teammates under the bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFanSince1970 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 21 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said: Lmao Wins and losses are a team stat, PERIOD. QBs can benefit/suffer based on their supporting cast. Then how did Vick go 38-28-1 on six teams that four other QBs went 9-20 on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidecar Falcon Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Miller2Rison said: Cam has physical talent but shows weak mental toughness, hes easily rattled and when he starts getting hit he makes eratic throws, he tries to be a physical runner then gets banged up by doing so, he also isnt a very good leader of his team and will throw teammates under the bus. Saw this two years ago when In the second game against them, during their SB run. Pre-game he was very animated, and was cocky when they were ahead. Once he started getting hit and making mistakes the energy went down. Edited August 20, 2017 by Sidecar Falcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macknsweetjones Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 hour ago, OilFuturesTrader19 said: Interesting arguements both for and against Cam. I think he's more interested in being a fashion plate or celebrity. Plus..no one mentioned his leadership/sportsmanship is ATROCIOUS!!!!! I would bet he never has as good a season again as he had 2 years ago. Sportsmanship is trash like who gives a **** about that..I wouldn't care if anyone on the Falcons showed an ounce of sportsmanship ...winning or losing ...put that trash right in the same garbage as the participation trophies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 On a not entirely unrelated note, Mike Glennon sucks....bad. Nearly every other throw should be picked off. Yet I can't imagine he doesn't start week 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidecar Falcon Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Just now, FalconFanSince1970 said: Then how did Vick go 38-28-1 on six teams that four other QBs went 9-20 on? How is a "winning" QB on six different teams? And that record you attribute to Vick is still terrible. QBs benefit/suffer based on their supporting cast, end of story. No single player can go out and win a game all on their own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamMills51 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, Miller2Rison said: will throw teammates under the bus. Fake news. https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/07/26/nfl-cam-newton-carolina-panthers-offense Quote It’s not the dazzling playmaking or even the dancing at practice that endears him to teammates, but rather it’s his refusal to throw anyone under the bus. He won’t assign blame to anyone other than himself in a press conference no matter how obvious it is. And his coaches have to use unique interrogation techniques with him to understand what went wrong on a play even in the film room. “I’ve had to drag it out of him in terms of, ‘What do you see? What can we fix?,” Rivera says. “It always starts with him. He doesn’t want to sit there and say, ‘I don’t like this play’ or ‘I don’t like that guy at that position.’ In his mind, he’s going to fix it and make it work.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovie_Lover Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 9 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said: Then how did Vick go 38-28-1 on six teams that four other QBs went 9-20 on? So these QB's all played on the exact same teams as Vick?? What teams were these?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller2Rison Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 minute ago, SamMills51 said: Fake news. https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/07/26/nfl-cam-newton-carolina-panthers-offense Maybe hes grown from that but i saw a younger Cam do it before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller2Rison Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Yo_Lover said: So these QB's all played on the exact same teams as Vick?? What teams were these?? He means Doug, Kurt, Joey, and Byron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamMills51 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said: QBs benefit/suffer based on their supporting cast, end of story. No single player can go out and win a game all on their own Yep. And that's precisely why Cam's numbers look low: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000769130/article/cam-newton-leads-nfls-top10-most-aggressive-qbs Quote No starting quarterback threw into tight windows more than Cam Newton in 2016, as 24.9 percent of his pass attempts went to a receiver who had less than one yard of separation. What this stat provides us is a reminder that few quarterbacks operate in an environment that creates a higher degree of difficulty. The Panthers offensive design requires Newton to hit high-degree of difficulty passes both deep and outside the numbers. Even his 20.3 tight window percentage on passes that traveled fewer than 10 yards in the air trailed only the Rams' quarterbacks. In recent years we've seen the Carolina front office almost overcorrect in an attempt to rectify this issue by drafting behemoth receivers like Kelvin Benjamin and Devin Funchess. The trouble with that approach is that they only serve to extrapolate the high-degree of difficulty for their quarterback. Benjamin checked in with the lowest average separation on his targets (1.8 yards) and Funchess, who barely got on the field anyway, came in with the fourth lowest (2.0) among receivers who saw 20 or more targets. http://presnapreads.com/2017/06/28/cam-newton-is-as-inaccurate-as-steph-curry/ Quote Last year Newton played in an offense that was designed to push the ball down the field with linear receivers who couldn’t run shorter routes to get open. Throwing downfield was difficult, it is difficult in the best of conditions, but especially so because his receivers struggled to get open and he was constantly delivering the ball from condensed pockets. Throwing short was an even greater challenge because receivers such as Kelvin Benjamin, Devin Funchess and Ted Ginn aren’t good at releasing from the line of scrimmage. Even Greg Olsen is largely just a vertical threat. Newton’s receivers are big but they aren’t good. They don’t adjust well to the ball in the air and they can’t create separation. 59 times last year Newton threw an accurate pass only to have his receiver ruin the play. Only Aaron Rodgers lost more receptions to receiver error. When a quarterback throws 600 attempts in a season it only takes 50 plays to move his completion percentage eight percent in either direction. If you have two quarterbacks, one with a great set of receivers and one with an awful set, one who rarely sees any pressure and one who is constantly performing in spite of it, one who rarely pushes the ball downfield and one who lives on short throws, you can very quickly discover that completion percentage is painting a completely misleading picture. Edited August 20, 2017 by SamMills51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidecar Falcon Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Just now, SamMills51 said: Yep. And that's precisely why Cam's numbers look low: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000769130/article/cam-newton-leads-nfls-top10-most-aggressive-qbs Cam is best utilized as a playmaker and not a QB. He's not as accurate as other QBs, however he's head and shoulders more physically talented than any other QB in the league. That makes him extremely dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamMills51 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Just now, Sidecar Falcon said: Cam is best utilized as a playmaker and not a QB. He's not as accurate as other QBs, however he's head and shoulders more physically talented than any other QB in the league. That makes him extremely dangerous. This accuracy stat includes the five games he had a partially torn rotator cuff: http://presnapreads.com/2017/06/28/cam-newton-is-as-inaccurate-as-steph-curry/ Quote Newton was the fourth most accurate passer in the league on passes that travelled further than five yards downfield. His 68.46 percent mark was only beaten out by Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. Newton was second only to Tom Brady in the 11-20 yard range, he was accurate on 70.54 percent of those throws. On 21+ yard throws, Newton ranked eighth with a 49.18 percent accuracy number. *It should be noted that all of Newton’s numbers in this article include the final quarter of the season when he played hurt. Newton had three games with an accuracy percentage below 60 percent last season, all of which came after he was hurt. If these numbers only included games he was fully healthy for they would be significantly better across the board.* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macintez Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 7 hours ago, RYNE said: Let's keep in mind Cam isn't playing yet. That makes a small difference in the Panthers offensive performance "Small" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdawg4876 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 This is the yr cam needs to show more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidecar Falcon Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, SamMills51 said: This accuracy stat includes the five games he had a partially torn rotator cuff: http://presnapreads.com/2017/06/28/cam-newton-is-as-inaccurate-as-steph-curry/ This seems like an overly convoluted way to account for inaccuracy. Brady had essentially made a career at dink and dunks and has five SB rings. No doubt that his injury affected his overall play, however his completion percentage has always been lower than other QBs. I'm not knocking Cam at all for his accuracy. I believe a contributing factor to this is the type of offense he's in. I personally think he's being misused. Edited August 20, 2017 by Sidecar Falcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdawg4876 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I agree with sams narrative but I think the FO gave him two good targets in the draft, I need to see cam deliver accurate short to intermediate passes on time and in rhythm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcranford2 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 24 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said: Cam is best utilized as a playmaker and not a QB. He's not as accurate as other QBs, however he's head and shoulders more physically talented than any other QB in the league. That makes him extremely dangerous. Do you think that holds true the older Cam gets? How long will that last? Seems like it's already starting to fade. He still has the physical talent. But mentally he doesn't want to be physical anymore. He's sliding earlier, he's throwing the ball away on plays he used to run on. He's handing the ball off on option plays instead of keeping it. Seems even the coaches are calling less qb runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcranford2 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, jdawg4876 said: I agree with sams narrative but I think the FO gave him two good targets in the draft, I need to see cam deliver accurate short to intermediate passes on time and in rhythm Cam throws to open players. He doesn't make the read before it happens. He's a reactionary thrower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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