Panthers at Titans

[Falconsfan567]

2 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

LAST TWO SEASONS

Luck - .455 winning%, 6658 yards, 48 TDs, 34 Turnovers

Mariota - .452 winning%, 6886 yards, 50 TDs, 38 Turnovers 

Cousins .531 winning%, 9227 yards, 63 TDs, 41 Turnovers, 1PB

Newton .700 winning%, 8341 yards, 69 TDs, 32 Turnovers, 1PB, 1AP, 1MVP, 1SB

Yeah I got Cam ahead of those guys. Stop hatin bro.

Wins are a team star. But not surprised because you did the same thing with Vick.

[Falconsfan567]

1 hour ago, ltstorm2 said:

I don't know where I'd rank Cam, I will say that he is certainly a franchise QB and is capable of winning games.  He is without a doubt the best rushing QB in the league. It's a good thing because it makes up for his deficiency as a passer.  Very Vick like in as he doesn't anticipate receivers coming open unless it's a deep pass.  Out of all the TE's that have played this game, Greg Olsen is the 1st TE to have 3 consecutive 1,000-yard seasons?  Olsen is a **** good TE but its more so that he is Newton's security blanket.

He has the skills to beat you and that's all that matters in the NFL.

I completely agree with this.

[Falconsfan567]

1 hour ago, LightsCameronAction said:

Quarterback stats through their first 6 years in league history. 

 

/thread. 

It's not fair to compare QBs from different era's because of the major rule changes that have taken place over the years to benefit the offense and make it easier for them.

[Falconsfan567]

Is Cam Newton one of the 10 best playmakers at the QB position? Absolutely, heck he's borderline top 5.

But Cam Newton is not one of the 10 best passers in the NFL and when I evaluate QBs on their abilities I do based on their passing skills and abilities. Cam is not a top 10 passer in the NFL. I mentioned Blake Bortles for a reason, that with the way the game is played today, even an average to bad passer can throw up a lot of TD passes in a season. There's not a single person here that would claim that Bortles is a top 10 QB in the NFL but even he had a season with 35 TD passes.

Also, I've been watching Cam play a lot longer and a lot closer than most folks here. I'm a Cam Newton fan and hate that he plays for a team in the Falcons division because I can't root for him.

Cam has a great arm and has the ability to be an elite passer, but his footwork is awful and it causes his accuracy to suffer big time because of it. If he could ever make himself use proper footwork and improve his accuracy he'd easily be the most dangerous player in the NFL. But the fact is that only 1 year out of 5 has he been that guy, and even for that year it was only for about half the season.

That's not hate, it's me giving an honest and fair assessment.

[FalconsIn2012]

1 hour ago, LightsCameronAction said:

Quarterback stats through their first 6 years in league history. 

 

/thread. 

I'm not sure what this graphic is trying to prove.  Ryan threw for more yards, less interceptions, more attempts, better completion % and a higher quarterback rating.  Cam is a great player, but Ryan is a better quarterback.  

[PokerSteve]

3 hours ago, Macknsweetjones said:

Cam is a top 10 QB in this league...stop comparing him to some useless backup on his team that's playing in the preseason. 

He was top 10, but he's been trending sharply middle of the pack of late and now he's dealing with a slow injury recovery. An unknown quantity at the moment with more question marks than exclamation points. Which brings up the question, can McCaffery throw the ball? 

[Ergo Proxy]

I'll say that Cam is a better passer than Vick was because Cam isn't as vulnerable to injury due to their size difference. Cam is definitely a threat primarily from being a mobile QB.

 

So, while their offense has generally been more methodical/wear you down due to being a run first team; which they are, they generally delivered on scoring until last year. Cam's long-term success from here will be keeping his body healthy and developing as a passer. As we've seen the trend in the NFL, it's hard to be consistently good as a mobile threat QB the longer you go in this league without developing your skills as a passer. Even Russell Wilson won a SB and has subsequently needed to develop more in the pocket due to injuries.

Look at Cam's year last season. Fewest rushes of his career/lowest yards per attempted rush and 2nd most pass attempts = his worst passing season in the NFL. 75 rating. The fact is he hasn't shown the consistent ability to perform in a pass first style offense, but then again he hasn't been. Will he have to at some point? History says a big fat yes.

It was an MVP worthy level performance in 2015 and he did in fact have a very good rookie season. Still, when all hits the fan he has more to prove still as a QB in general, but more so as a passer. This is what keeps him on the bubble of top 10 QB. Just from last season alone Cam isn't a top-10 QB entering the season, IMO. However, if he develops as a passer and their RBs take over more of the workload on the ground they'll be in a better spot as a team. This is just the nature of dual-threat QBs that have yet to reach elite passer status. A couple years with good TD totals doesn't make you a great passer. I guess the debate can rage on over defining him as a passer vs a QB.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by slimjim

[SamMills51]

2 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

He was top 10, but he's been trending sharply middle of the pack of late and now he's dealing with a slow injury recovery. An unknown quantity at the moment with more question marks than exclamation points. Which brings up the question, can McCaffery throw the ball? 

A partially torn rotator cuff is far different than a full tear. Cam's having perfectly normal symptoms and should actually be ready to go in against the JAGs this week.

[PokerSteve]

Just now, SamMills51 said:

A partially torn rotator cuff is far different than a full tear. Cam's having perfectly normal symptoms and should actually be ready to go in against the JAGs this week.

Excellent. I look forward to seeing him in action.

[nolove4thecrook]

3 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

I think so too.

I cannot wait until Christian McCaffery meets Keanu Neal it's gonna happen trust me!

[Mr.11]

7 minutes ago, slimjim said:

I'll say that Cam is a better passer than Vick was because Cam isn't as vulnerable to injury due to their size difference. Cam is definitely a threat primarily from being a mobile QB.

 

So, while their offense has generally been more methodical/wear you down due to being a run first team; which they are, they generally delivered on scoring until last year. Cam's long-term success from here will be keeping his body healthy and developing as a passer. As we've seen the trend in the NFL, it's hard to be consistently good as a mobile threat QB the longer you go in this league without developing your skills as a passer. Even Russell Wilson won a SB and has subsequently needed to develop more in the pocket due to injuries.

What injuries? Wilson has yet to miss a game. Yeah he was hobbled last year, but that was more because of his O-line being trash for much of the season.

Wilson is like Rodgers--an above average pocket passer with elite scrambling ability. He's regularly completed over 60% of his passes. In fact he's never dipped below 60 for the season and his highest output was 68% in 2015, which was also his first year passing for 4,000 yards (and he still rushed for 500 and threw 34 TDs to 8 INTs). Wilson has the second highest (only to Rodgers) career passer rating--just shy of 100. He's doing this with an average to mediocre receiving corps. Baldwin is good, but the talent drops off significantly from there.

Don't get it twisted. Wilson can hurt you from the pocket.

[Falconsfan567]

10 minutes ago, JerseyNo12 said:

What injuries? Wilson has yet to miss a game. Yeah he was hobbled last year, but that was more because of his O-line being trash for much of the season.

Wilson is like Rodgers--an above average pocket passer with elite scrambling ability. He's regularly completed over 60% of his passes. In fact he's never dipped below 60 for the season and his highest output was 68% in 2015, which was also his first year passing for 4,000 yards (and he still rushed for 500 and threw 34 TDs to 8 INTs). Wilson has the second highest (only to Rodgers) career passer rating--just shy of 100. He's doing this with an average to mediocre receiving corps. Baldwin is good, but the talent drops off significantly from there.

Don't get it twisted. Wilson can hurt you from the pocket.

Absolutely. Can't believe I forgot to mention Russell Wilson when I was naming off 10 passers better than Cam.

[Ergo Proxy]

18 minutes ago, JerseyNo12 said:

What injuries? Wilson has yet to miss a game. Yeah he was hobbled last year, but that was more because of his O-line being trash for much of the season.

Wilson is like Rodgers--an above average pocket passer with elite scrambling ability. He's regularly completed over 60% of his passes. In fact he's never dipped below 60 for the season and his highest output was 68% in 2015, which was also his first year passing for 4,000 yards (and he still rushed for 500 and threw 34 TDs to 8 INTs). Wilson has the second highest (only to Rodgers) career passer rating--just shy of 100. He's doing this with an average to mediocre receiving corps. Baldwin is good, but the talent drops off significantly from there.

Don't get it twisted. Wilson can hurt you from the pocket.

You missed my point. He had to stand back and pass/change his game. Most pass attempts and fewest rush attempts in his career = worst QB rating of his career; granted still better than Cam by a mile. I'm objectively talking about QB types; not status. Their method for success.

EDIT: Yep, injuries matter whether you miss a game or not if they affect your play.
 

EDIT2: My post was about Cam. I never stated Wilson was a bad passer, but the fact is when his options were more limited at trying to be the dual-threat due to many factors that 'can' affect mobile QBs the truth remains he had his worst season as a passer last year. THAT is where he and Cam are similar objectively. Of course Wilson is a proven passer more so overall compared to Cam no question. Still if a proven passer can be affected when limiting their effectiveness on the ground; Wilson, it reduces their efficiency through the air it makes it harder on their performance as a passer naturally. That is why Cam will need to grow was my point. Cam took a bigger dip of course from an MVP  year (99 passer rating) to 75 last season. Similarities were my emphasis and it remains true Wilson took a step back due to injuries and so he attempted the most passes in a season for himself; naturally his passer rating went down due to not being able to leverage his threat on the ground. That's kind of the thing with QB rating with dual threat QBs who don't throw as much as pocket QBs or in other words aren't as refined. Even Aaron Rodgers gets criticized for running a less complex offense and being more of a gunslinger.

Edited August 20, 2017 by slimjim

[usmcdirtybird]

42 minutes ago, nolove4thecrook said:

I cannot wait until Christian McCaffery meets Keanu Neal it's gonna happen trust me!

Mike Evans did not like that meeting last year

[Falconsfan567]

While we're on the subject of QBs, I believe this is the year we'll see a massive improvement from Jameis Winston. I thought Winston would be too much of a bad apple after all his issues at FSU but he's been pretty much a perfect citizen since the Bucs drafted him. Hearing his interviews and such he has matured a lot and I think we'll see that reflected in his play this year.

[Hingle McCringleberry]

26 minutes ago, usmcdirtybird said:

Mike Evans did not like that meeting last year

Nor did Jordan Matthews.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Asault86

[SamMills51]

1 hour ago, nolove4thecrook said:

I cannot wait until Christian McCaffery meets Keanu Neal it's gonna happen trust me!

Same. McCaffrey gonna make Neal look like a fool.

[Vandy]

Just now, SamMills51 said:

Same. McCaffrey gonna make Neal look like a fool.

LOL.

[GTBF54]

3 minutes ago, SamMills51 said:

Same. McCaffrey gonna make Neal look like a fool.

[FalconFanSince1970]

2 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Wins are a team star. But not surprised because you did the same thing with Vick.

OK you think Cam and Vick suck. Got it.

[Falconsfan567]

3 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

OK you think Cam and Vick suck. Got it.

Does this look like me saying he sucks? Also, wins are a team stat. You cannot use wins to evaluate QB play. It's stupid. Always has been and always will be. If wins were all that mattered then Tim Tebow would have a starting job in the NFL somewhere because all he did was WIN!!!

1 hour ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Is Cam Newton one of the 10 best playmakers at the QB position? Absolutely, heck he's borderline top 5.

But Cam Newton is not one of the 10 best passers in the NFL and when I evaluate QBs on their abilities I do based on their passing skills and abilities. Cam is not a top 10 passer in the NFL. I mentioned Blake Bortles for a reason, that with the way the game is played today, even an average to bad passer can throw up a lot of TD passes in a season. There's not a single person here that would claim that Bortles is a top 10 QB in the NFL but even he had a season with 35 TD passes.

Also, I've been watching Cam play a lot longer and a lot closer than most folks here. I'm a Cam Newton fan and hate that he plays for a team in the Falcons division because I can't root for him.

Cam has a great arm and has the ability to be an elite passer, but his footwork is awful and it causes his accuracy to suffer big time because of it. If he could ever make himself use proper footwork and improve his accuracy he'd easily be the most dangerous player in the NFL. But the fact is that only 1 year out of 5 has he been that guy, and even for that year it was only for about half the season.

That's not hate, it's me giving an honest and fair assessment.

 

[PensacolaFalcon]

3 hours ago, LightsCameronAction said:

Quarterback stats through their first 6 years in league history. 

 

/thread. 

Majority of these guys first 6 games are in a different era... some of them didn't play a full season their first year if at all.  But hey if this helps you sleep at night go for it  ... 

[FalconFanSince1970]

3 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Does this look like me saying he sucks? Also, wins are a team stat. You cannot use wins to evaluate QB play. It's stupid. Always has been and always will be. If wins were all that mattered then Tim Tebow would have a starting job in the NFL somewhere because all he did was WIN!!!

 

QB winning% is a stat that is tracked and will likely become official in our lifetime. The QB can affect a game more than any other player. Positively and negatively. Cam Newton and Michael Vick were both highly instrumental in several of their team's wins. Way more so than Bortles, Mariota, Cousins or Luck. I'd take either one of em over those guys and beat your as. Trust me.

[Falconsfan567]

2 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

QB winning% is a stat that is tracked and will likely become official in our lifetime. The QB can affect a game more than any other player. Positively and negatively. Cam Newton and Michael Vick were both highly instrumental in several of their team's wins. Way more so than Bortles, Mariota, Cousins or Luck. I'd take either one of em over those guys and beat your as. Trust me.

So we should give Matt Ryan all the credit for that game in 2012 when he threw like 5 interceptions and the Falcons won thanks to the defense? Oh wait, don't you see how stupid that is? Oh wait, you don't.

[OilFuturesTrader19]

Interesting arguements both for and against Cam.

I think he's more interested in being a fashion plate or celebrity.  Plus..no one mentioned his leadership/sportsmanship is ATROCIOUS!!!!!

I would bet he never has as good a season again as he had 2 years ago.