Realist

NFC South Position Group Rankings: RB

61 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, SamMills51 said:

You act like getting a running game as tough as the Falcons is going to be a hard feat with our personnel. Fact is, we had the deadliest run game in 2015 with Fatbert, Stewart, and Cam only. I could argue the Falcons run game was successful in large part of scheme, and it remains to be seen if it can be carried over to next year.

Samuel, Cam, McCaffrey, and Stewart are not going to be easy to defend in the run game. It's not far-fetched to say this group could be better than the Falcons.

You're completely delusional. Yes having a top 5 in every rushing statistical category is hard. You need good rushing personnel, which you MIGHT have, but you need a good O-line which you dont. You seem too be confused. Id actually eager that the Saints have a better rush offense than Carolina. You cant have an atrocious O-line and be good rushing the ball consistently. 

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Just now, MD-FalconFan13 said:

Umm, maybe the problem is you don't understand how prolific our run game was. We gain about 150 more yards and 4 more TDs with 32 less rushes. Falcons were 4th in the league in rush ypa. Falcons were 5th in total rush yards and yards per game. Carolina had twice as many fumbles as the Falcons. Our longest run was almost double Carolina's. All that is while ALSO having an even better ranked passing aattack. If we committed to the run, we'd likely lead the league or be extremely close to it. We were already close while being a more pass heavy team. The Falcons offense in general is in another league than Carolina's. They're better at EVERYTHING. 

Carolina's good, but the Falcons had an all time great offense.  

I'm not denying the fact the 2016 Falcons offense wasn't better than the 2015 Panthers offense. Falcons had a ton more weapons for Ryan during that time, and prolific runners. Carolina only have Stewart and Cam as primary runners, and jags for WRs. Of course the Falcons would have a better offense during that time.

It's what makes the 2015 Panthers so interesting. We achieved so much with so little. It was awe-inspiring and bewildering. A healthy oline provided us that magic.

Again, Matt Ryan had a clean pocket and WRs who could get separation and wide open in Shanahan's scheme. That's what made him so efficient and prolific. Cam Newton has never had that, and definitely not in 2016. He was forced to throw deep more than any other QB because of our WRs, and our injured o-line didn't help matters.

Now, the Falcons just have to prove that their offense wasn't just all Shanahan. They will likely not achieve the greatness they did in 2016, but I expect them to be real decent. I also expect the fact you won't be as lucky with injuries on your o-line, as I still will say you were a Mack injury away from watching the Bucs in the playoffs.

The Panthers now have offensive weapons that Cam hasn't had since 2011. They can get separation, work in the short game, and do wonders in the run game. If Cam could achieve what he did with a healthy o-line in 2015 with JAG WRs, I have no doubts he'll dominate with what he has right now.

Our run game simply will be hard to defend this year. To compare, Samuel is sort of like Coleman, McCaffrey like Freeman, and Stewart like Hill. Thing is, we can add Cam Newton to the equation, and that's why our run game could be superior to the Falcons.

Like I said, this is potential based, but don't sleep on the Panthers.

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1 minute ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

You're completely delusional. Yes having a top 5 in every rushing statistical category is hard. You need good rushing personnel, which you MIGHT have, but you need a good O-line which you dont. You seem too be confused. Id actually eager that the Saints have a better rush offense than Carolina. You cant have an atrocious O-line and be good rushing the ball consistently. 

Another "atrocious o-line" delusional argument.

The only way you could remotely argue against our o-line is our uncertain LT situation. That's all potential and what-ifs there, but even so, for as much flack as Kalil gets for his pass blocking, he's half decent with run blocking. LT Oher may or may not be back, that's the what-if. Even so, Oher was real bad in the run game, but good at pass blocking; complete opposite of Matt Kalil.

C Ryan Kalil, RG Trai Turner, and LG Andrew Norwell make up one of the best interiors in the league. We now have depth at those positions with LG Scott, C Larsen/Gradkowski, and RG Amini RT Daryl Williams is real possible as our franchise RT (shut down Vic Beasley in both games last year) and is a huge upgrade over Remmers, and RT Taylor Moton is a solid pick from the draft with huge upside who can flip to LT if necessary. 

RT, RG, C, and LG are all shored up with depth and starters. LT is the only mystery, but we could end up having a solid starter and depth if anything.

Only reason our line was garbage in 2016 was due to injuries. Norwell was the only guy who was healthy. Everyone else was out of position, IR'd, or hurt. 

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@MD-FalconFan13

As far as the Saints...

AP is done. Never had a good game against us ever (never eclipsed 90 yards rushing against us) with the Vikings, and you bet his old self will not be much of a factor at all. I'm certainly not scared of him at all. 

Ingram is decent. He'll be their primary ball carrier and do work. Not very intimidating.

As far as Kamara, he'll be used in space and do decent. If he were expected to be a primary back, he would fail. Lucky for him, he fits perfectly with the Saints. He'll do some damage, but he's not scary in that he's going to be a game-changing lead back. More like a scatback if anything not required to make much decisions.

You can't even compare that to what the Panthers will be able to do.

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1 minute ago, SamMills51 said:

I'm not denying the fact the 2016 Falcons offense wasn't better than the 2015 Panthers offense. Falcons had a ton more weapons for Ryan during that time, and prolific runners. Carolina only have Stewart and Cam as primary runners, and jags for WRs. Of course the Falcons would have a better offense during that time.

It's what makes the 2015 Panthers so interesting. We achieved so much with so little. It was awe-inspiring and bewildering. A healthy oline provided us that magic.

Again, Matt Ryan had a clean pocket and WRs who could get separation and wide open in Shanahan's scheme. That's what made him so efficient and prolific. Cam Newton has never had that, and definitely not in 2016. He was forced to throw deep more than any other QB because of our WRs, and our injured o-line didn't help matters.

Now, the Falcons just have to prove that their offense wasn't just all Shanahan. They will likely not achieve the greatness they did in 2016, but I expect them to be real decent. I also expect the fact you won't be as lucky with injuries on your o-line, as I still will say you were a Mack injury away from watching the Bucs in the playoffs.

The Panthers now have offensive weapons that Cam hasn't had since 2011. They can get separation, work in the short game, and do wonders in the run game. If Cam could achieve what he did with a healthy o-line in 2015 with JAG WRs, I have no doubts he'll dominate with what he has right now.

Our run game simply will be hard to defend this year. To compare, Samuel is sort of like Coleman, McCaffrey like Freeman, and Stewart like Hill. Thing is, we can add Cam Newton to the equation, and that's why our run game could be superior to the Falcons.

Like I said, this is potential based, but don't sleep on the Panthers.

 Ok,  a couple things I take issue with. First, Cam didn't throw deep the most last year. That's was Matt. 

Second, the offense was NEVER the reason for success in Carolina it was the defense. Panthers had the 11th rated offense. The defense was 5th and the defining unit of the team. The rushing attack was good #1, but that was due to Carolina attempting over 100 more rushes than we did in 2016. We attempted 421 last year to 526 Panther rush attempts in 2015. We averaged 4.5 ypa 2016, Panthers averaged 3.9 ypa in 2015. No where near as prolific. You're doing a good bit of revisionist history here man. You should stop pretending the Panthers O is or ever was anywhere near the Falcons. Its just a goal that they'd like to work towards.

Your team has names. We have proven playmakers and a track record of good offense. Not opportunistic offense when our defense makes plays to give us the ball back.

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11 minutes ago, SamMills51 said:

Another "atrocious o-line" delusional argument.

The only way you could remotely argue against our o-line is our uncertain LT situation. That's all potential and what-ifs there, but even so, for as much flack as Kalil gets for his pass blocking, he's half decent with run blocking. LT Oher may or may not be back, that's the what-if. Even so, Oher was real bad in the run game, but good at pass blocking; complete opposite of Matt Kalil.

C Ryan Kalil, RG Trai Turner, and LG Andrew Norwell make up one of the best interiors in the league. We now have depth at those positions with LG Scott, C Larsen/Gradkowski, and RG Amini RT Daryl Williams is real possible as our franchise RT (shut down Vic Beasley in both games last year) and is a huge upgrade over Remmers, and RT Taylor Moton is a solid pick from the draft with huge upside who can flip to LT if necessary. 

RT, RG, C, and LG are all shored up with depth and starters. LT is the only mystery, but we could end up having a solid starter and depth if anything.

Only reason our line was garbage in 2016 was due to injuries. Norwell was the only guy who was healthy. Everyone else was out of position, IR'd, or hurt. 

Based on what? That whooping 3.9 ypa in 2015?? Bro, stop. The Panthers are not now, nor have they EVER been a great offense. Now a great defense, ABSOLUTELY! But when you make audacious claims about Carolina's offense thats when I have to call BS. 

I can give chapter and verse statistics that refute that.

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16 minutes ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

Based on what? That whooping 3.9 ypa in 2015?? Bro, stop. The Panthers are not now, nor have they EVER been a great offense. Now a great defense, ABSOLUTELY! But when you make audacious claims about Carolina's offense thats when I have to call BS. 

I can give chapter and verse statistics that refute that.

If you're really discrediting our interior, which consists of an underrated LG in Andrew Norwell (and I can assure you your peers will say he's good), 2 time pro-bowler RG Trai Turner, 5 time pro-bowler, and 4 time All-Pro (2 time first team) C Ryan Kalil, you're pretty much making yourself look like an idiot.

Right Tackle Daryl Williams shut down Vic Beasley both games last year, held Chiefs Ford to one sack, and Khalil Mack to nothing (prior to being injured that game.) I'd say he's more than capable of being our starting caliber RT.

LT is the only one you can make an argument against. 

22 minutes ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

 Ok,  a couple things I take issue with. First, Cam didn't throw deep the most last year. That's was Matt. 

I'm sorry, where did that statistic come from? Here's a statistic here clearly showing Cam Newton threw the most deep passes and Matt Ryan not even being in the top 5.

 

28 minutes ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

Second, the offense was NEVER the reason for success in Carolina it was the defense. Panthers had the 11th rated offense. The defense was 5th and the defining unit of the team. 

I recommend you take a read from here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2016/film-room-cam-newton

Quote

 

When the New England Patriots went 16-0 in 2007, it wasn't necessarily expected, but it wasn't a complete surprise either. The Patriots had quality throughout their whole team. Every position could point to a quality player or two to contribute positively to victories on a regular basis. The Panthers aren't built like that. The Panthers are a team that is reliant on using their areas of great strength to elevate their areas of weakness. It's much tougher for teams that are built like that to be consistent over a full season because a handful of players have to play extremely well every single week or they have no chance of winning. It's not rational to expect any player to consistently play to that level for more than a couple of weeks at a time.

Newton stands out more than his teammates on the defensive side of the ball though. He is the only superstar-level player the offense boasts. He was tasked with the toughest assignments of anyone on the roster because of this. He was immediately able to elevate his teammates from the start of the season. That wasn't surprising, but it was surprising that he was able to sustain that ability. It was shocking when he began to elevate his own play further over the second half of the season. Newton completed just 60 percent of his passes, but his accuracy rate was 77.1 percent. And a 77.1 percent accuracy rate while throwing the ball downfield under pressure isn't logical.

We can compare his efficiency numbers to the other quarterbacks in the league. **The quarterbacks who thrive from completely clean pockets. The quarterbacks who have ball-winning receivers who erase the need for accuracy. The quarterbacks who throw to dynamic, creative runners who can create yards after the catch on screens and other simple throws**. Or we can be realistic. We can actually assess how rare a talent the Panthers passer is. We can actually acknowledge how high his performance level has been each week. We can appreciate how important he has been to his team's 15 victories this season without feeling compelled to diminish it by pointing to Luke Kuechly and Josh Norman.

Maybe it's inconvenient for some, but Cam Newton was the best in 2015.

There's actual analysis in there that disproves your point our offense didn't do anything. I won't say much more, because the article was more than enough.

**Article also makes a good point. This describes Matt Ryan's 2016 season perfectly. It's why I will say that Cam Newton's MVP season is more impressive. Cam did not have a clean pocket all the time, Shanahan's play-calling that makes everyone magically appear open, ball-winning receivers with separation getting open all the time, or dynamic runningbacks able to run screens and get the short passes.

Cam Newton had Funchess, Ginn, Brown as his main receivers, with Stewart as his primary runningback. Even Fatbert was already past his good years during 2015. These are not the dynamic WRs or RBs you all had. Not to mention Cam Newton had to throw the ball downfield far more than short passes in Shula's scheme, which is insanely tough.

Matt Ryan had Julio Jones, Sanu, and Taylor Gabriel, all dynamic playmaking WRs who get the ball and YAC. Tevin Coleman and Devonta Freeman made for the dynamic runningbacks running screens and getting YAC. That's why Matt Ryan threw a ton of short passes and had such a high efficiency rating due to his weapons. **

38 minutes ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

The rushing attack was good #1, but that was due to Carolina attempting over 100 more rushes than we did in 2016. We attempted 421 last year to 526 Panther rush attempts in 2015. We averaged 4.5 ypa 2016, Panthers averaged 3.9 ypa in 2015. No where near as prolific. You're doing a good bit of revisionist history here man. You should stop pretending the Panthers O is or ever was anywhere near the Falcons. Its just a goal that they'd like to work towards.

Your team has names. We have proven playmakers and a track record of good offense. Not opportunistic offense when our defense makes plays to give us the ball back.

I believe you're mistaken. You bring up our 2015 offense like I'm saying it's better than your 2016 one. 

I already said it's not, both in rushing and passing. I've never been talking about our 2015 offense when I say our run game could be better than yours. I'm talking about our 2017 offense (McCaffrey, Samuel, Cam, Stewart, FB Armah) on paper, and how our running game could be better, hence the potential part.

Already went over that before.

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To cap it off, I'll cite my sources for when it comes to our o-line:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-this-season/

Quote

2. Carolina Panthers (22nd)

Pass-blocking rank: 4th

Run-blocking rank: 6th

Penalties rank: 7th

Stud: If Trai Turner looked good as a rookie, he looked great in his sophomore year. Well worth Pro Bowl contention (and the spot we awarded him), there are a lot of teams wondering just how he was allowed to get all the way to the 92nd pick of the 2014 draft.

Dud: When something went wrong in the running game, Michael Oher was usually at the center of it. He did a good job in pass protection, but no tackle came close to grading as badly as he did in the running game.

Summary: The tackles are the weak spot of this line, but not so weak where it really matters for them (pass protection). The strength is obviously the interior, where Andrew Norwell (building on a successful rookie year), Turner, and Ryan Kalil are amongst the best at their position. They’re a foundation for success on the line.

Some things to note

  • As I said, Oher is a horrible run blocker. That's why I say Matt Kalil won't be as bad as him, because there literally is no way to be worse than last place.
  • Trai Turner was a pro-bowler in 2015, and he was again in 2016 even when playing games starting at RT. (source)
  • Andrew Norwell is seen as a strength, and he was our best graded healthy o-lineman in 2017 (LG Andrew Norwell, 85.7 (No. 11 best LG)). 
  • C Ryan Kalil was a 4 time All Pro (2 time first team All-Pro), 5 time probowler who happened to get hurt in 2016. Captain of our o-line, and one of the best in the NFL

Again, you're discrediting yourself by saying our interiors aren't much at all. They're easily top 3 in the league when healthy.

Now, to back-up my talk about Daryl Williams:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/2512400/vic-beasley-jr

1.PNG.4409f87a51685b12e939bfcb5c14a5d2.PNG

A nice little stat helps put things in perspective. 0 sacks. Both games. RT Daryl Williams shut down the league sack leader in both games he started in, and I'm sure you know Vic Beasley isn't a scrub at pass-rushing.

(I think we're fine at RT).

As I said, the only argument you could make is against our LTs. Then again, the irony is that you couldn't say our run blocking will be worse, because Oher is a significant downgrade in that department. Pass-blocking is all potential and what-ifs, so I already know that issue exists.

Can't even argue depth either. We got solid backups for every position.

So, continue on.

 

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4 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

If you're really discrediting our interior, which consists of an underrated LG in Andrew Norwell (and I can assure you your peers will say he's good), 2 time pro-bowler RG Trai Turner, 5 time pro-bowler, and 4 time All-Pro (2 time first team) C Ryan Kalil, you're pretty much making yourself look like an idiot.

Right Tackle Daryl Williams shut down Vic Beasley both games last year, held Chiefs Ford to one sack, and Khalil Mack to nothing (prior to being injured that game.) I'd say he's more than capable of being our starting caliber RT.

LT is the only one you can make an argument against. 

I'm sorry, where did that statistic come from? Here's a statistic here clearly showing Cam Newton threw the most deep passes and Matt Ryan not even being in the top 5.

 

I recommend you take a read from here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2016/film-room-cam-newton

There's actual analysis in there that disproves your point our offense didn't do anything. I won't say much more, because the article was more than enough.

**Article also makes a good point. This describes Matt Ryan's 2016 season perfectly. It's why I will say that Cam Newton's MVP season is more impressive. Cam did not have a clean pocket all the time, Shanahan's play-calling that makes everyone magically appear open, ball-winning receivers with separation getting open all the time, or dynamic runningbacks able to run screens and get the short passes.

Cam Newton had Funchess, Ginn, Brown as his main receivers, with Stewart as his primary runningback. Even Fatbert was already past his good years during 2015. These are not the dynamic WRs or RBs you all had. Not to mention Cam Newton had to throw the ball downfield far more than short passes in Shula's scheme, which is insanely tough.

Matt Ryan had Julio Jones, Sanu, and Taylor Gabriel, all dynamic playmaking WRs who get the ball and YAC. Tevin Coleman and Devonta Freeman made for the dynamic runningbacks running screens and getting YAC. That's why Matt Ryan threw a ton of short passes and had such a high efficiency rating due to his weapons. **

I believe you're mistaken. You bring up our 2015 offense like I'm saying it's better than your 2016 one. 

I already said it's not, both in rushing and passing. I've never been talking about our 2015 offense when I say our run game could be better than yours. I'm talking about our 2017 offense (McCaffrey, Samuel, Cam, Stewart, FB Armah) on paper, and how our running game could be better, hence the potential part.

Already went over that before.

You are seriously using PFF as evidence for anything?

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5 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

If you're really discrediting our interior, which consists of an underrated LG in Andrew Norwell (and I can assure you your peers will say he's good), 2 time pro-bowler RG Trai Turner, 5 time pro-bowler, and 4 time All-Pro (2 time first team) C Ryan Kalil, you're pretty much making yourself look like an idiot.

Right Tackle Daryl Williams shut down Vic Beasley both games last year, held Chiefs Ford to one sack, and Khalil Mack to nothing (prior to being injured that game.) I'd say he's more than capable of being our starting caliber RT.

LT is the only one you can make an argument against. 

I'm sorry, where did that statistic come from? Here's a statistic here clearly showing Cam Newton threw the most deep passes and Matt Ryan not even being in the top 5.

 

I recommend you take a read from here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2016/film-room-cam-newton

There's actual analysis in there that disproves your point our offense didn't do anything. I won't say much more, because the article was more than enough.

**Article also makes a good point. This describes Matt Ryan's 2016 season perfectly. It's why I will say that Cam Newton's MVP season is more impressive. Cam did not have a clean pocket all the time, Shanahan's play-calling that makes everyone magically appear open, ball-winning receivers with separation getting open all the time, or dynamic runningbacks able to run screens and get the short passes.

Cam Newton had Funchess, Ginn, Brown as his main receivers, with Stewart as his primary runningback. Even Fatbert was already past his good years during 2015. These are not the dynamic WRs or RBs you all had. Not to mention Cam Newton had to throw the ball downfield far more than short passes in Shula's scheme, which is insanely tough.

Matt Ryan had Julio Jones, Sanu, and Taylor Gabriel, all dynamic playmaking WRs who get the ball and YAC. Tevin Coleman and Devonta Freeman made for the dynamic runningbacks running screens and getting YAC. That's why Matt Ryan threw a ton of short passes and had such a high efficiency rating due to his weapons. **

I believe you're mistaken. You bring up our 2015 offense like I'm saying it's better than your 2016 one. 

I already said it's not, both in rushing and passing. I've never been talking about our 2015 offense when I say our run game could be better than yours. I'm talking about our 2017 offense (McCaffrey, Samuel, Cam, Stewart, FB Armah) on paper, and how our running game could be better, hence the potential part.

Already went over that before.

Maybe you give credit for inaccurate heaves down the field that do nothing to better your offense, I don't. None of the QBs on that "Top 5" list are even top 10 passers. So what they toss the ball and rack up the INTs or Incompletions. When I mention deep passes I'm talking completions. With that said, here's the REAL top 5 deep ball passers: https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-10-best-deep-passers-this-season/

 

To your article, this is a typical puff piece by a Cam supporter. Mentions his throws downfield (15) in 2015, but that contradicts NFL.com'a count of 10. http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/careerstats

But let me say this, Cam is an extraordinary QB. His size and athleticism might be unprecedented at the Qb position. And while he isn't the best passer he is plenty good enough. 

In any event, gotta go to celebrate Mothers Day. Wish you and yours well. Can't wait for the season to start. One of my best friends is Panthers dan who won't stop taking about your rookies.

 

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1 hour ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

Maybe you give credit for inaccurate heaves down the field that do nothing to better your offense, I don't. None of the QBs on that "Top 5" list are even top 10 passers. So what they toss the ball and rack up the INTs or Incompletions. When I mention deep passes I'm talking completions. With that said, here's the REAL top 5 deep ball passers: https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-10-best-deep-passers-this-season/

So this is originally what you said:

Quote

First, Cam didn't throw deep the most last year. That's was Matt. 

I refuted that statement by telling you who threw the deep the most. Completion and number of attempts are two different things, especially with your only deep guy having Ginn hands...

So if you really thought Matt Ryan was forced to throw deep the most, you're wrong. Of course, on the few chances Matt Ryan did, he was efficient. With a clean pocket and solid WRs, you're going to be more successful than someone with guys' lowest in the league in separation and throwing downfield the most.

That stat was never meant to showcase "skill," though in 2015's case it did. It's to show how tough Cam Newton has it. He's forced to make the harder throws than most. Since you didn't like that "fluff" piece that much, here's an NFL.com article that goes over this issue:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000769130/article/cam-newton-leads-nfls-top10-most-aggressive-qbs

Quote

) Cam Newton, Carolina Panthers (24.9 percent of his passes)

 

No starting quarterback threw into tight windows more than Cam Newton in 2016, as 24.9 percent of his pass attempts went to a receiver who had less than one yard of separation. Perhaps this stat can help explain what thwarted any attempt at an encore from the Panthers Pro Bowl quarterback. After an MVP season in 2015 where his Panthers team went to the Super Bowl, Newton came crashing back to earth to have the worst statistical season of his career. His 7.1 NFL-high touchdown rate from 2015 regressed to a career-worst 3.7 mark. The reigning MVP went through a ghastly stretch from Weeks 11 to 16 where he completed just 45.3 percent of his passes, which was the third-lowest by any quarterback in a six-game span since 1991. Newton's yards per attempt came under 7.0 for the first time in his career and the offense itself scored just 369 points compared to their league-leading 500 from the 2015 season. Newton completed just 30.9 percent of his passes into tight coverage, which was the second-worst mark in the NFL.

What this stat provides us is a reminder that few quarterbacks operate in an environment that creates a higher degree of difficulty. The Panthers offensive design requires Newton to hit high-degree of difficulty passes both deep and outside the numbers. Even his 20.3 tight window percentage on passes that traveled fewer than 10 yards in the air trailed only the Rams' quarterbacks. Additionally, Newton has had issues with bouts of inaccuracy, although as Eric Stoner of Big Cat Country asserts, there's a big difference between being an inaccurate passer (which Newton is not) and not being consistently accurate.

In recent years we've seen the Carolina front office almost overcorrect in an attempt to rectify this issue by drafting behemoth receivers like Kelvin Benjamin and Devin Funchess. The trouble with that approach is that they only serve to extrapolate the high-degree of difficulty for their quarterback. Benjamin checked in with the lowest average separation on his targets (1.8 yards) and Funchess, who barely got on the field anyway, came in with the fourth lowest (2.0) among receivers who saw 20 or more targets. Again, some of that comes back to the scheme Carolina runs and Benjamin has shown some prowess winning at the catch point. Still, the Panthers would be wise to alter their approach with Newton in the same way the Steelers once did with Ben Roethlisberger, as Around the NFL's Chris Wesseling suggests. This also suggests that the Panthers need to explore acquiring another receiver who can quickly separate in their routes to provide Newton an easier target for easier completions, rather than constantly asking him to rifle passes into the tight windows provided by his current mammoth wideouts.

Once again, you note a huge problem is separation from WRs. He has to throw deep more than most, and into tight windows. That's pretty much why you see Cam Newton's abysmal efficiency for 2016.

1 hour ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

To your article, this is a typical puff piece by a Cam supporter. Mentions his throws downfield (15) in 2015, but that contradicts NFL.com'a count of 10. http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/careerstats

Again, I believe that article means there were 15 total attempts that were 40+, not that all of them landed or would've counted in NFL.com's system. I don't know how they compare, but the writer creates a whole entire analysis-filled section in his QB portfolio he does. I bet you'll see how he gets his numbers in there, but it does cost money.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/store/pre-snap-reads-quarterback-catalogue-2017

Of course, can't say for sure, since I'm not personally buying anything. But he shows everything and how he gets to his conclusion in that piece.

Again, if it's such a "fluff" piece, explain to me why that is? It just shows the simple fact that Cam Newton could do what most other QBs couldn't do in his situation. You can't deny Matt Ryan had it was easier than Cam Newton in every facet of his game in 2016, and you can't deny Newton's impact in 2015.

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****, it's hard to read a thread (especially on a phone) once sammills starts posting. Do you have a library of bookmarked pages you refer to when you talk Panthers on other teams boards? 

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7 hours ago, 1989Fan said:

****, it's hard to read a thread (especially on a phone) once sammills starts posting. Do you have a library of bookmarked pages you refer to when you talk Panthers on other teams boards? 

SamMills goes by the name Saca312 on the Panthers board, he literally posts the same crap on here as he does there, then brags on the Panthers forums about how a "random" Panthers fan is going hard on the TATF lol. I've read plenty of his post... On here he'll pretend to post some unbiased Falcons opinions. Then do the exact opposite as Saca on the Panthers forum. 

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Stupid Panthers fan in here talking about Cam adding to the running game in a thread titled "POSITION GROUP RANKING"

 

Guess deep down he knows Cam isn't a QB.

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55 minutes ago, hotlanta said:

SamMills goes by the name Saca312 on the Panthers board, he literally posts the same crap on here as he does there, then brags on the Panthers forums about how a "random" Panthers fan is going hard on the TATF lol. I've read plenty of his post... On here he'll pretend to post some unbiased Falcons opinions. Then do the exact opposite as Saca on the Panthers forum. 

I post a lot of his stuff. But you're mistaken if you think I'm him.

If you haven't noticed, most of the stuff I get comes from that user. He's really the only user there that posts analysis and film. But I assure you we're not the same guy.

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1 hour ago, hotlanta said:

SamMills goes by the name Saca312 on the Panthers board, he literally posts the same crap on here as he does there, then brags on the Panthers forums about how a "random" Panthers fan is going hard on the TATF lol. I've read plenty of his post... On here he'll pretend to post some unbiased Falcons opinions. Then do the exact opposite as Saca on the Panthers forum. 

Lmaooo , omggg this was funny lol 

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4 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

I post a lot of his stuff. But you're mistaken if you think I'm him.

If you haven't noticed, most of the stuff I get comes from that user. He's really the only user there that posts analysis and film. But I assure you we're not the same guy.

I believe you. I can spot phonies pretty quickly and you don't seem to be of that molding at all.

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On 5/11/2017 at 11:20 PM, The Peregrine said:

To me, this was pretty much an easy choice for the top to bottom. I think the Falcons are in the top 3 for the NFL for RB positional rankings.

I can't see what duo is better. Freeman is good enough to play slot receiver, and Coleman's hands may be even better. Now you add a 3rd down/short yardage "power" runner in Hill and you have 3 rbs that could be the number one option on 20+ teams. Hill is still an NFL ?, but he has the vision, speed, power, and the best blocking ability of all 3, to not be a success in this league. If Freeman wants 8 mil+, and Hill proves he can run crisp routes, with above average hands, then Freeman may become expendable real quick. 4 yr 25mil is fair to both sides.

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23 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

I'm not denying the fact the 2016 Falcons offense wasn't better than the 2015 Panthers offense. Falcons had a ton more weapons for Ryan during that time, and prolific runners. Carolina only have Stewart and Cam as primary runners, and jags for WRs. Of course the Falcons would have a better offense during that time.

It's what makes the 2015 Panthers so interesting. We achieved so much with so little. It was awe-inspiring and bewildering. A healthy oline provided us that magic.

Again, Matt Ryan had a clean pocket and WRs who could get separation and wide open in Shanahan's scheme. That's what made him so efficient and prolific. Cam Newton has never had that, and definitely not in 2016. He was forced to throw deep more than any other QB because of our WRs, and our injured o-line didn't help matters.

Now, the Falcons just have to prove that their offense wasn't just all Shanahan. They will likely not achieve the greatness they did in 2016, but I expect them to be real decent. I also expect the fact you won't be as lucky with injuries on your o-line, as I still will say you were a Mack injury away from watching the Bucs in the playoffs.

The Panthers now have offensive weapons that Cam hasn't had since 2011. They can get separation, work in the short game, and do wonders in the run game. If Cam could achieve what he did with a healthy o-line in 2015 with JAG WRs, I have no doubts he'll dominate with what he has right now.

Our run game simply will be hard to defend this year. To compare, Samuel is sort of like Coleman, McCaffrey like Freeman, and Stewart like Hill. Thing is, we can add Cam Newton to the equation, and that's why our run game could be superior to the Falcons.

Like I said, this is potential based, but don't sleep on the Panthers.

Cam Newton's running days are quickly becoming numbered. He has taken too many hits in this league. McCaffrey like Freeman? You are going to be REALLY disappointed if that's what you're expecting, but I won't burst your bubble. The 2018 season will do that. BTW Cam's running days are numbered. I bet you anything that he doesn't ever say ****e to Deion Jones again. The fact is that he has initiated too much contact running the ball, and he is getting slower, and more hesitant from it. Overrated

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

I post a lot of his stuff. But you're mistaken if you think I'm him.

If you haven't noticed, most of the stuff I get comes from that user. He's really the only user there that posts analysis and film. But I assure you we're not the same guy.

Lol Trust me, I have taken noticed. That's why I find it quite ironic that you post the exact same things... Literally word for word. 

But that's besides the point, regardless if it's plagiarism or not. You seem like a good dude and passionate fan like all of us here. Just don't expect to change our minds with your page long articles and short clips, that only fit your narrative when someone doesn't agree. Especially on a Falcons page.

Having said that, in my opinion all of the NFC South teams upgraded their RB position but just like you believe McCaffery could be the next Westbrook/McCoy/Bell, he could also be the next Bush/Spiller... only time will tell.

My Ranking;

• Atlanta - Freeman, Coleman, Hill 

• Saints - Ingram, Kamara, Peterson 

• Panthers - Stewart, McCaffery, CAP

• Bucs - Martin, Rodgers, McNichols

 

* Newton does add an element to the running game for Carolina, which could rank them above New Orleans and Atlanta, but this is strictly about the RB position.

 

 

Edited by hotlanta
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On 5/14/2017 at 1:18 AM, SamMills51 said:

You act like getting a running game as tough as the Falcons is going to be a hard feat with our personnel. Fact is, we had the deadliest run game in 2015 with Fatbert, Stewart, and Cam only. I could argue the Falcons run game was successful in large part of scheme, and it remains to be seen if it can be carried over to next year.

Samuel, Cam, McCaffrey, and Stewart are not going to be easy to defend in the run game. It's not far-fetched to say this group could be better than the Falcons.

This thread isn't about the running game, I think that's where you're getting confused. The run game encompasses everything in an offense; RB's, OLine, TE's, and even QB (In your case). This is purely about RB's. Christian, Stewart, and Samuel(?) vs Freeman, Teco, and Hill. You're really going to say those two teams of players are equal right now?

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On 5/14/2017 at 1:27 AM, MD-FalconFan13 said:

You're completely delusional. Yes having a top 5 in every rushing statistical category is hard. You need good rushing personnel, which you MIGHT have, but you need a good O-line which you dont. You seem too be confused. Id actually eager that the Saints have a better rush offense than Carolina. You cant have an atrocious O-line and be good rushing the ball consistently. 

Dude, this guy had Falcons fans brainwashed into thinking we should have Lamp in the first. They need OL but he didn't say they needed him. He's a Panthers homer...period...period. He needs to be in rivals central. Especially after this last comment.

YES...it is THAT HARD to have a top run group, or else everyone would have it.

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1 hour ago, Knight of God said:

Dude, this guy had Falcons fans brainwashed into thinking we should have Lamp in the first. They need OL but he didn't say they needed him. He's a Panthers homer...period...period. He needs to be in rivals central. Especially after this last comment.

YES...it is THAT HARD to have a top run group, or else everyone would have it.

I just really liked Lamp as a prospect. I thought he'd be one of the draft's biggest steals.

I didn't even say it was a need. I just thought he was by far BPA with his potential and skillset. 

I still have the Falcons as the better run game because of the fact they have experience and proven record, while the Panthers are all potential. 

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Posted (edited)

55 minutes ago, SamMills51 said:

I just really liked Lamp as a prospect. I thought he'd be one of the draft's biggest steals.

I didn't even say it was a need. I just thought he was by far BPA with his potential and skillset. 

I still have the Falcons as the better run game because of the fact they have experience and proven record, while the Panthers are all potential. 

If thats the case, why are Panthers 2 on your list? Saints have 2 1,000 yard + rushers and a better O-Line (until Max Unget injury). They consistently invest in O-Line w/ Larry Warford, Zach Strief, Terron Armstead, Max Unger and now Garrett Boles. Based on their PROVEN backs and better O-line how can "all potential" and patchwork/injury riddled O-Line be better?

I've seen your posts, and most of the time it's homer posts and panthers boasts hidden in thinly veiled compliments for our team. And this seems like the latter. On one hand you admit that Falcons are better (partially because its utterly ridiculous to suggest otherwise) due to specific criteria like OLine and RB personnel. Then you suspend that criteria to rate your team higher. Mark Ingram is and has been better than Jonathan Stewart. Ingram has gained more than 1,100 yds from scrimmage each of the last 3 years despite splitting carriers 2 of them. Now they add AP and Alvin Kamara? They, IMO, are unquestionably better than Carolina. 

Then you have the audacity to suggest that its easy to have a top 5 rushing offense? And that Carolina will be as good or better than Atlanta? I just think you're terribly misinformed. Either that or you suspend legit analysis when talking about you team of preference.

Edited by MD-FalconFan13

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55 minutes ago, SamMills51 said:

I just really liked Lamp as a prospect. I thought he'd be one of the draft's biggest steals.

I didn't even say it was a need. I just thought he was by far BPA with his potential and skillset. 

I still have the Falcons as the better run game because of the fact they have experience and proven record, while the Panthers are all potential. 

Man, thinking that dude was BPA was a huge mistake. He will be ok. Just ok. I love McCaffrey, but I think you guys need an OL BAD or else his career is over as we speak.

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