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MayorWest13

Curtis Samuel Catching technique

144 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

If you guys are still worried about Curtis Samuel's hands, then let me relieve you all with Samuel's one handed grab:

ezgif.com-video-to-gif_(6).gif.9bf871bab4a386c5daef4222f1646316.gif

We really don't care. Now you're just spamming with homerism. You just said high upside Matt Khalil lol. I'm done. When's the last time he was good? 

OT Matt Kalil to Carolina Panthers

Actual: Five years, $55.5 million, $25 million guaranteed

PFF play-earned contract: Two years, $6 million, $2 million guaranteed

Grade: F

Matt Kalil has earned PFF grades of 43.8, 68.4 and 36.9 over the past three seasons, one of which was almost entirely lost to injury. His best season was as a rookie in 2012, and since then, he has been varying shades of poor. His play suggests he should be making little more than the veteran minimum, not walking into another starting job as one of the best-paid tackles in the league.

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9 hours ago, YoungHeezy said:

That's small time compared to what #22 is bringing. Ask Willie Snead and Jordan Matthews 

Exactly. Those are patty cake hits compared to Neal. 

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@A-TowN.- You do realize how crap of a situation being on the Vikings as an o-line man was, right?

And if facts and tape are now considered homerism, then that's a new one.

Anyhow, the Panthers have a track record of turning scrubs into someone half decent. Remember Oher? Heck, even Remmers for what he is did decent in our 2015 run.

Not to mention Kalil finally got some much needed surgery. He'll be around his own brother, and an o-line coach who will bring out the best in him.

All he has to do is be better than Remmers and Bell, and he'll be a win for our team.

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42 minutes ago, SamMills51 said:

@A-TowN.- You do realize how crap of a situation being on the Vikings as an o-line man was, right?

And if facts and tape are now considered homerism, then that's a new one.

Anyhow, the Panthers have a track record of turning scrubs into someone half decent. Remember Oher? Heck, even Remmers for what he is did decent in our 2015 run.

Not to mention Kalil finally got some much needed surgery. He'll be around his own brother, and an o-line coach who will bring out the best in him.

All he has to do is be better than Remmers and Bell, and he'll be a win for our team.

Your post above is classic homerism. 

Panthers OL is a mess. 

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41 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Your post above is classic homerism. 

Panthers OL is a mess. 

Even so, we still have Oher. Could put him back at LT. 

Ryan Kalil is an all-pro center. Trai Turner is a pro bowl guard. Andrew Norwell is a white buffalo, underrated but one of the best. Tyler Larsen proved to be a solid backup center after our other 2 centers were put on IR.

Panthers have one of the best interiors when healthy.

Daryl Williams is a perfect RT starter, and Taylor Moton could surprise. He looked dominant in rookie camp (granted, it's rookie camp, but he bested Hall) and he was the 3rd best pass blocker according to PFF with a high efficiency score.

LT, Moton is said to have been taking snaps there and dominating. He could be a solid backup plan if Oher is done. Matt Kalil will be the only "?", but he should surprise.

Panthers o-line isn't a mess. If you have any counters, bring them to me, and I'll see it from your perspective.

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Carolina is going to be terrible this year.  Last in the division and lucky to win seven games.  I was listening to local Raleigh Radio coming home from work Friday and Mick Mixon was on.  There is a real genuine concern with Scam's shoulder, the oline and the backend of the defense.  The feeling (although no one on the radio would say it) is that scam might not make it the entire season, because his shoulder will not be 100% when he starts the season and that will force him to run and due to the putrid Oline he is going to get hurt again.  I believe one of the regular radio guys asked, "is the beginning of the end for cam if he gets hurt again" and the reply from Mixon was, "I don't know, we will see".  Not a huge vote of confidence from your team play by play guy who knows more about the team then just anybody.

To be honest, I hope Cam plays the whole year.  He doesn't scare anyone anymore and his age and injury issues have just caught up with him.  He doesn't have the work ethic or mental ability to elevate his game above his physical ability and that is all is was based on for years.  Carolina's running game will not be that good.

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32 minutes ago, SamMills51 said:

Even so, we still have Oher. Could put him back at LT. 

Ryan Kalil is an all-pro center. Trai Turner is a pro bowl guard. Andrew Norwell is a white buffalo, underrated but one of the best. Tyler Larsen proved to be a solid backup center after our other 2 centers were put on IR.

Panthers have one of the best interiors when healthy.

Daryl Williams is a perfect RT starter, and Taylor Moton could surprise. He looked dominant in rookie camp (granted, it's rookie camp, but he bested Hall) and he was the 3rd best pass blocker according to PFF with a high efficiency score.

LT, Moton is said to have been taking snaps there and dominating. He could be a solid backup plan if Oher is done. Matt Kalil will be the only "?", but he should surprise.

Panthers o-line isn't a mess. If you have any counters, bring them to me, and I'll see it from your perspective.

C'mon man, you're not gonna convince anyone outside of Carolina fans that their line is a strength. Beasley is going to destroy Oher or Kalil. I will say wait and see on Takk (and not proclaim him the savior like Samuel or CMac).

Better hope Kalil (OC) can hold up the fort because he is the only one who won't be overmatched facing our line.

But like I said, I give you credit for supporting your team. A real fan there. Just that your not going to convince or fool anyone here that it is a good line, great slot WR, etc.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, SamMills51 said:

Even so, we still have Oher. Could put him back at LT. 

Ryan Kalil is an all-pro center. Trai Turner is a pro bowl guard. Andrew Norwell is a white buffalo, underrated but one of the best. Tyler Larsen proved to be a solid backup center after our other 2 centers were put on IR.

Panthers have one of the best interiors when healthy.

Daryl Williams is a perfect RT starter, and Taylor Moton could surprise. He looked dominant in rookie camp (granted, it's rookie camp, but he bested Hall) and he was the 3rd best pass blocker according to PFF with a high efficiency score.

LT, Moton is said to have been taking snaps there and dominating. He could be a solid backup plan if Oher is done. Matt Kalil will be the only "?", but he should surprise.

Panthers o-line isn't a mess. If you have any counters, bring them to me, and I'll see it from your perspective.

Your above post is my counter...a ton of wishful thinking of "ifs, buts, and maybes" on just about every offensive lineman magically coming back healthy but most especially the most crucial positions of left tackle....your azzes are hanging out there in the wind with oher + kalil and reminds me a lot of Falcons OT situation of 2013-14 when Ryan nearly got killed starting with Sam baker and ending with Jeremy trueblood and Lamar Holmes ...better hope western Michigan's Moton grows up fast, but realistically he will struggle if thrown in there with the NFL big boys at tackle.....and as we both know, Cam doesn't have near the emotional maturity that Ryan has in handling adversity...

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No one in Carolina except the fans think their Oline is going to be any good.  It's the joke of the team on local sports radio in NC.

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2 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

@A-TowN.- You do realize how crap of a situation being on the Vikings as an o-line man was, right?

And if facts and tape are now considered homerism, then that's a new one.

Anyhow, the Panthers have a track record of turning scrubs into someone half decent. Remember Oher? Heck, even Remmers for what he is did decent in our 2015 run.

Not to mention Kalil finally got some much needed surgery. He'll be around his own brother, and an o-line coach who will bring out the best in him.

All he has to do is be better than Remmers and Bell, and he'll be a win for our team.

Vikings OL was arguably worse than yours and you guys signed a player who was one of the reasons the OL there was so bad. How much sense does that make? 

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@Vandy @1989Fan I'll answer a few things here.

Our interior is no question. We have solid depth there, and it's one of the best starting units. 

Our RT isn't a question either. Someone real good is gonna start there, whether it be Williams (most likely) or Moton. Beasley always lines up opposite the RT, so he won't be getting reps against Kalil/Oher. Williams shut him down both games last season.

Our LT situation is a bunch of ifs, that I will agree with. While I'm confident he will be able to provide play that exceeds Bell and Remmers, I can see why others don't believe so. Even Oher is a "?" if he'd even be healthy enough in the case Kalil doesn't work out. Moton is our backup plan there, which I believe he'd provide good play, but yes that's the one part of our o-line that's got a lot of question marks.

As far as me proclaiming Samuel to be our answer, he is. Already showed you the tape, and already told you about his rookie camp performance. 4.31 speed, drop rate of 3.2% is real good. Already went over why Cam and Samuel will fit together.

Samuel will be a deadly vertical threat. Never used that way at OSU with a QB who can't throw downfield to save his life. Tape I posted goes over that. Cam Newton used Ginn as a vertical threat, and Samuel's a more reliable version of that.

Think the reliability of Cotchery and the speed of Ginn rolled up in one.

The only arguments are about the way he catches, and that's valid. Even so, he still catches the ball and doesn't drop it.

Trying to downplay Samuel really doesn't have any merit, as the tape shows a guy who could very well make a huge impact on our offense. Pretty laughable to be honest.

As far as Cam's emotional level, I think he'll be just fine. If that's the only argument you're going to use against Cam all the time, then not even worth going over. About as old as it gets, and Cam keeps proving everyone wrong every single time.

 

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44 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

Vikings OL was arguably worse than yours and you guys signed a player who was one of the reasons the OL there was so bad. How much sense does that make? 

The Vikings signed a RT that arguably was the main reason our o-line collapsed in 2015. 

We signed a LT a few years ago by the name of Oher that made his previous o-line unit so bad. 

Kalil had his rookie season of pro-bowl level play, and did real well the season after, then fell off a cliff. Like I said, sometimes those around you can brinf you down, and Kalil was a victim of poor cast members around him with terrible coaching.

A lot better situation in Carolina, with his brother keeping him in check and an o-line coach that turned Oher into a solid starter and Remmers from scraps into a half decent player.

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1 minute ago, SamMills51 said:

The Vikings signed a RT that arguably was the main reason our o-line collapsed in 2015. 

We signed a LT a few years ago by the name of Oher that made his previous o-line unit so bad. 

Kalil had his rookie season of pro-bowl level play, and did real well the season after, then fell off a cliff. Like I said, sometimes those around you can brinf you down, and Kalil was a victim of poor cast members around him with terrible coaching.

A lot better situation in Carolina, with his brother keeping him in check and an o-line coach that turned Oher into a solid starter and Remmers from scraps into a half decent player.

You seem to put a lot of stock in his brother being there. And your OLine has not exactly been a strength of yours for a minute, they can't just turn anyone into a great player. 

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8 minutes ago, SamMills51 said:

@Vandy @1989Fan I'll answer a few things here.

Our interior is no question. We have solid depth there, and it's one of the best starting units. 

Our RT isn't a question either. Someone real good is gonna start there, whether it be Williams (most likely) or Moton. Beasley always lines up opposite the RT, so he won't be getting reps against Kalil/Oher. Williams shut him down both games last season.

Our LT situation is a bunch of ifs, that I will agree with. While I'm confident he will be able to provide play that exceeds Bell and Remmers, I can see why others don't believe so. Even Oher is a "?" if he'd even be healthy enough in the case Kalil doesn't work out. Moton is our backup plan there, which I believe he'd provide good play, but yes that's the one part of our o-line that's got a lot of question marks.

As far as me proclaiming Samuel to be our answer, he is. Already showed you the tape, and already told you about his rookie camp performance. 4.31 speed, drop rate of 3.2% is real good. Already went over why Cam and Samuel will fit together.

Samuel will be a deadly vertical threat. Never used that way at OSU with a QB who can't throw downfield to save his life. Tape I posted goes over that. Cam Newton used Ginn as a vertical threat, and Samuel's a more reliable version of that.

Think the reliability of Cotchery and the speed of Ginn rolled up in one.

The only arguments are about the way he catches, and that's valid. Even so, he still catches the ball and doesn't drop it.

Trying to downplay Samuel really doesn't have any merit, as the tape shows a guy who could very well make a huge impact on our offense. Pretty laughable to be honest.

As far as Cam's emotional level, I think he'll be just fine. If that's the only argument you're going to use against Cam all the time, then not even worth going over. About as old as it gets, and Cam keeps proving everyone wrong every single time.

 

Agree with you on Samuel, disagree with you on OL.....and mucho disagree with you on cam's emotional level....David Carr had everything you could ask of a QB, but his 'emotional level' is what got him out of NFL...be in denial all you want, but those beating he took add up, and you could see it affect newton's play last year. 

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1 hour ago, SamMills51 said:

The Vikings signed a RT that arguably was the main reason our o-line collapsed in 2015. 

We signed a LT a few years ago by the name of Oher that made his previous o-line unit so bad. 

Kalil had his rookie season of pro-bowl level play, and did real well the season after, then fell off a cliff. Like I said, sometimes those around you can brinf you down, and Kalil was a victim of poor cast members around him with terrible coaching.

A lot better situation in Carolina, with his brother keeping him in check and an o-line coach that turned Oher into a solid starter and Remmers from scraps into a half decent player.

Okay man whatever you say. I respect you defend your team, but objectivity is not in your realm of thinking. I just don't see it with Kalil. I don't think him having his brother there will make much of a difference. 

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2 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

Okay man whatever you say. I respect you defend your team, but objectivity is not in your realm of thinking. I just don't see it with Kalil. I don't think him having his brother there will make much of a difference. 

Reminds me of B.J. Upton for the Braves.

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8 hours ago, A-TowN.- said:

We really don't care. Now you're just spamming with homerism. You just said high upside Matt Khalil lol. I'm done. When's the last time he was good? 

OT Matt Kalil to Carolina Panthers

Actual: Five years, $55.5 million, $25 million guaranteed

PFF play-earned contract: Two years, $6 million, $2 million guaranteed

Grade: F

Matt Kalil has earned PFF grades of 43.8, 68.4 and 36.9 over the past three seasons, one of which was almost entirely lost to injury. His best season was as a rookie in 2012, and since then, he has been varying shades of poor. His play suggests he should be making little more than the veteran minimum, not walking into another starting job as one of the best-paid tackles in the league.

The worst signing of the offseason. 

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3 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

The Vikings signed a RT that arguably was the main reason our o-line collapsed in 2015. 

We signed a LT a few years ago by the name of Oher that made his previous o-line unit so bad. 

Kalil had his rookie season of pro-bowl level play, and did real well the season after, then fell off a cliff. Like I said, sometimes those around you can brinf you down, and Kalil was a victim of poor cast members around him with terrible coaching.

A lot better situation in Carolina, with his brother keeping him in check and an o-line coach that turned Oher into a solid starter and Remmers from scraps into a half decent player.

That is where real studs raise the level of play around them, not fall down to their poor performance level. Joe Thomas comes to mind. 

You are the first person I have heard say the Kalil signing wasn't flat out bad, let alone great.

The best case scenario is that you didn't overpay him. Anything other than probowl level production makes giving him 55 mil, 25 guaranteed look bad. There is no scenario that makes this signing look financially good for CAR. It was a desperation move IMO.

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10 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

That is where real studs raise the level of play around them, not fall down to their poor performance level. Joe Thomas comes to mind. 

You are the first person I have heard say the Kalil signing wasn't flat out bad, let alone great.

The best case scenario is that you didn't overpay him. Anything other than probowl level production makes giving him 55 mil, 25 guaranteed look bad. There is no scenario that makes this signing look financially good for CAR. It was a desperation move IMO.

That's fair. You also have to consider context. This was perhaps the worst FA tackle market in a long time, and the draft didn't provide much reassurance as far as strength in the tackle class. 

You'd have to expect inflated prices. Fact is, only reason Vikings didn't get him back was because of how many years were on the contract. I think they initiallly offered more money than us.

Financially, it could be deemed an overpay if he doesn't meet franchise LT production. As for me, I'm content if his play is better than Remmers and Bell, as everywhere else on our line is set with quality players.

Do I like the move? Meh. It's obviously out of desperation with Oher's future on a tipping scale. However, from the bits of film I watched, I see his potential. I'm more optimistic about the move than most in that regards.

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On 5/6/2017 at 4:56 PM, 1989Fan said:

Two different players. Cam isn't a touch passer. Like I said if Samuel is running shallow crossing routes, let's see how accurate Cam is finding him and hitting him.

When Cam is throwing a fast ball for all of his passes, let's see how this guy holds on.

Speaking of this, guess who's top 3 in the league when it comes to passes in the 11-15 yd range:

I could go on a tangent on how Cam Newton's offense has always forced him to make the most highly difficult passes in the NFL, and other stuff like forcing him to throw downfield more often than not, but I'll save that for another time.

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On 5/6/2017 at 4:33 PM, SamMills51 said:

So Taylor Moton - isn't addressing the o-line, and a high-upside possibility with Matt Kalil isn't trying to do something to the o-line?

Anyhow, as to how the Panthers will use them, it's rather simple: McCaffrey's the runner, Samuel's the slot receiver. Both can be interchangable to confuse defenses.

Team stacking the box against you? Great we just shifted McCaffrey out onto a LB covering him and you've got another LB covering Samuel.

Team playing dime? Great motion McCaffrey in the back field and have the defense adjust only to hit them with a play action of Samuel going deep (second fastest player in the draft) or just run it and watch McCaffrey juke the daylights out of some CB that has no business being on the field.

Want to confuse defenses even more? Run a jet sweep with McCaffrey and Samuel, and try and see if the defenses can guess correctly.

Put McCaffrey on a wheel route with Samuel running option with Cam and watch defenses try and stop that.

Here's a nice, deeper look at how they completely change our offense (albeit a very, er, interesting one):

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/boards/topic/138208-a-source-i-am-close-to-who-is-sorta-close-to-the-team-gave-me-some-insight-on-why-mccaffrey-and-samuel-were-a-perfect-combination-and-heavily-targeted-as-a-combo/

great christ am i drunk. a bunch of tens were buying me shots at burke st. and foothills but i turned them down to write this  post for you because of all the pointy elbows. my dude who knows a big dude who told me about captain munnerlyn well before anyone else picked it up told me about shula's plan to revolutionize the offense. here it is.

...basically it's obvious as fug. everyone here has called it philosophically: we're getting faster. that's clear. but shula, who's low key riding a hot seat with rivera (gettleman is ice cold and will happily hand select his own staff if rivera doesn't cut it) has demonstrated a desire to evolve much the way he did going into the 2015 season. ted ginn was a dinosaur and his speed was about to start seeping away, rendering him useless. KB is a chronic sandbagger and funchess has a branden lafell-esque ceiling, let's be honest. the latter two are about as fast as my grandma and she's dead.

shula recognized that seven-step drops for lumbering wide receivers are getting us in trouble, so he and gettleman put heads together and decided a proper scatback and a true deep threat wide receiver were the answer. why? because this:

IMG_1042.JPG

in this extra poo picture note that the presence of KB and funchess in a single wing scares no one, not even the atrocious saints secondary circa 2016. this is because the free safety can rove and cover back quarters and the strong safety is fast enough to drop back if the play is diagnosed as pass and cover his section of the field. this is ultimately because KB and funchess aren't fast enough to demand two high safeties.

adding samuel changes this. mccaffrey changes it even more. suddenly that strong safety has to move back to a normal position, two high, to respect the threat. envision if you will this play:

IMG_1043.PNG

no defensive assignments shown but you don't need them to see that safeties are pooping their pants. FS has to play high to account for samuel in the slot or outside. olsen demands the string safety. KB ad funch see consistent single coverage due to the inability of safeties to bracket.

and then there's mccaffrey. safeties can't cover him physically, and if they tried they'd break their ankles. carolina picking him opens up massive lanes in the backfield and flats if mccaffrey is being moved around properly.

And another one:

https://realsport101.com/news/sports/nfl/carolina-s-offense-is-now-impossible-to-defend

The Formations

Carolina may be thought of as a power run team, but they work mostly out of the shotgun, and often in a trips formation. In 2016 they ran it more frequently, and more successfully, out of shotgun than anything else. Same goes for passing. Three receivers, one back, one tight end, that’s how the Panthers like to operate on offense. The only problem is that can be very limiting in what you can do playcalling wise. There is only so much deception you can put into 11 personnel, especially when your running back is limited as a receiver.

Well now, there are no limitations…

The McCaffrey Factor

In Christian McCaffrey the Panthers have a well-documented star who can run the ball out of shotgun comfortably and run the kind of routes that leave linebackers on the floor clutching their ankles. And it gets worse for defenses, since he can do it from out wide as well. While Jonathan Stewart has had a 40+ catch season, that was all the way back in 2011. Since then he hasn’t averaged more than two catches a game in any single season. With McCaffrey they have a back who can line up next to Cam in the shotgun and be a legitimate run/catch option, to go along with their run/pass quarterback that is pretty deadly.

Combine that with McCaffrey’s ability to go in motion, line up in the slot and basically turn into Julian Edelman and you have someone who is going to torment defensive coordinators. There is only so much defenses can prepare for, and with a power run game, a full passing playbook, options and now McCaffrey’s range of skills… It’s overwhelming. And it gets worse.

Samuel’s X-Factor

Samuel was listed as a running back in Ohio State, but in 2016 he had 97 carries (at 7.9 yards per touch) and 74 catches (at 11.7 yards per touch). That sounds like more than your average running back, and like McCaffrey he can do it all over the field. Here he’s in the low slot, ruining a DB’s life with a stutter step and streaking away. Now he’s coming out of the backfield and just jogging past a linebacker on a wheel route. Samuel clocked a 4.31 40-yard time, and he uses it. He’s not as crisp a route-runner as McCaffrey, but he burns defenses that leave him isolated. He was listed as a wide receiver in the draft process, but he can line up in the backfield and run the ball.

So how the poo do you try and defend these two hybrid players while not letting Jonathan Stewart run you over or leaving Greg Olsen open?

It’s simple, you don’t. Mike Shula now has two chess pieces to throw at defenses, be it as matchup nightmares, decoys, or as traditional role players. He can torment teams with endless RB motions and force them to declare coverages by using McCaffrey. He can make the top pick a decoy and empty the box by moving him only to come back with Stewart, he can line Samuel up in the backfield and make linebackers defend the width of the field against a speedster. The options are almost-endless.

The NFC South is already one of the most competitive and entertaining divisions in the NFL, but with Carolina’s draft it just got a whole lot more intriguing and explosive.

 

 

You didn't draft Freeman and Coleman dude. Or Hill. 

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