Kung Fu Kenny

Use De'Vondre Campbell athleticism like Minnesota does Anthony Barr

145 posts in this topic

9 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

It doesn't work that way man. The round someone was selected in doesn't mean they are better. Tom Brady was a 7th rounder so stop that nonsense. What about the undrafted players that became hof'ers?? 

Except when it does. That's why Barr has made two Pro Bowls. 

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23 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

Except when it does. That's why Barr has made two Pro Bowls. 

Yea Tom Brady has done nothing with his career compared to the Qbs drafted before him.:huh:

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14 minutes ago, MayorWest13 said:

Yea Tom Brady has done nothing with his career compared to the Qbs drafted before him.:huh:

What's next should we compare Brian Poole to Patrick Peterson? Ricardo Allen to Earl Thomas? 

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

It doesn't work that way man. The round someone was selected in doesn't mean they are better. Tom Brady was a 7th rounder so stop that nonsense. What about the undrafted players that became hof'ers?? 

 

And campbell may absolutely have more snaps. He will play SLB in base and move over to WLB in nickel. Campbell's role is about to increase. Not decrease. 

did SEA leave all 3 LBs on field most of the time when DQ was there? i know he didn't substitute as much there as he's done here...and i would think that was because of the difference of talent level initially. now that we 'might' have 3 very capable LBs with the addition of Duke, what's the chance they play all 3 downs this coming season? or do u think a CB will, for the most part, take either Duke or Campbell off the field in 3 WR sets?  

Edited by sanfranfalcon

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2 hours ago, Summerhill said:

Except when it does. That's why Barr has made two Pro Bowls. 

"It doesn't work that way, except when it does", is the very definition of there not being a rule.  Of course, teams will draft the players that they believe to be better first, but teams are often wrong.  Once players are in the league, it's "what have you done for me lately?"  To just assume a higher draft choice is better is not the way anyone thinks whose job depends on winning games.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, sanfranfalcon said:

Seattle matched up with Nickel when that third receiver came on the field just like every other NFL team. Dan Quinn did however play his base package in Seattle more than other defenses but that was all dictated by gameplanning and situational stuff.

It became SOP some years back for defenses to automatically match nickel with 11 personnel so much so that offenses could almost start dictating to defenses. Defensive coaches always talked that noise about not letting offenses dictate who they put on the field but in the end they all went nickel because most teams just don't have the linebackers or safety's to walk out on a slot receiver.  A clever guy like Sean Payton, he'd put a third receiver on the field on 3rd and 1 knowing he had no intention of passing the ball and when the defense took that linebacker off the field in favor of nickel, leaving themselves light in the box, it was the easiest one yard run you could imagine with only 6 defenders in the box. I noticed New Orleans used to love to do that around the goal line.

Quinn and Seattle started leaving their base defense on the field in situations like that and they could get away with it because as you pointed out they had the rangy athletes at linebacker and safety who could hold up if the offense checked to a pass. But it was all opponent specific.

Edited by PeytonMannings Forehead

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1 hour ago, sanfranfalcon said:

did SEA leave all 3 LBs on field most of the time when DQ was there? i know he didn't substitute as much there as he's done here...and i would think that was because of the difference of talent level initially. now that we 'might' have 3 very capable LBs with the addition of Duke, what's the chance they play all 3 downs this coming season? or do u think a CB will, for the most part, take either Duke or Campbell off the field in 3 WR sets?  

Yea somebody's coming off. I don't see us keeping all 3 in against the teams in our division. I could see if somebody uses a 3 TE set but not with 4 and 5 wr's on the field. But yes DQ uses a nickel corner a lot in Seattle. The guy that broke his arm in the SB against the pats was a nickel corner and they went downhill after his loss because the next slot corner got toasted. I'd imagine in certain situations we'd leave them on the field now that we have duke. But not often. Especially against our division. 

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2 hours ago, Summerhill said:

What's next should we compare Brian Poole to Patrick Peterson? Ricardo Allen to Earl Thomas? 

its not a comparison. It's simply that round doesn't automatically make a player better or worse than another. It's simply if that guy can play or not. Freeman has made 2 pro bowls. He's a 3rd rounder. Montana wasn't a first rounder but before this last SB was considered the GOAT. Jessie toggle was a walk on. How many 1st round picks have the Falcons had bust? Or ANY team for that matter?? It's about making the right pick in ANY round.  And to your comparison Peterson plays outside. Poole plays slot. No comparison. Allen imo will make the pro bowl this year and then what?? Also name the team that has 1st rounders at all positions?? And they're balling?? That kinda thing just doesn't exist. Teams that draft we'll find talent in all rounds. Campbell has talent. And he's gonna remain a starter. 

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3 hours ago, Summerhill said:

Except when it does. That's why Barr has made two Pro Bowls. 

Man I know you ain't that ignorant. You can't be. I'll let you do the research and find late rounders that stay making the pro bowl. Richard Sherman is one of them. Shall we continue?? 

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I actually love the idea of using him at slb. That would provide so many options when defending tight ends and sending occasional blitzes.  I also think Campbell is an ideal candidate to reroute  and disrupt tight ends at the line of scrimmage. His length should allow him to  effectively jam tight ends when needed.

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I see Campbell as a run stuffing LB and the Sam position would be a better fit. He didn't play so well in space but when he was able to use his length on the line, he was able to make stops.

I think Riley will take over the starting Will spot with Campbell taking Wheelers sbaps at Sam. 

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Posted (edited)

34 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Seattle matched up with Nickel when that third receiver came on the field just like every other NFL team. Dan Quinn did however play his base package in Seattle more than other defenses but that was all dictated by gameplanning and situational stuff.

It became SOP some years back for defenses to automatically match nickel with 11 personnel so much so that offenses could almost start dictating to defenses. Defensive coaches always talked that noise about not letting offenses dictate who they put on the field but in the end they all went nickel because most teams just don't have the linebackers or safety's to walk out on a slot receiver.  A clever guy like Sean Payton, he'd put a third receiver on the field on 3rd and 1 knowing he had no intention of passing the ball and when the defense took that linebacker off the field in favor of nickel, leaving themselves light in the box, it was the easiest one yard run you could imagine with only 6 defenders in the box. I noticed New Orleans used to love to do that around the goal line.

Quinn and Seattle started leaving their base defense on the field in situations like that and they could get away with it because as you pointed out they had the rangy athletes at linebacker and safety who could hold up if the offense checked to a pass. But it was all opponent specific.

 

20 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Yea somebody's coming off. I don't see us keeping all 3 in against the teams in our division. I could see if somebody uses a 3 TE set but not with 4 and 5 wr's on the field. But yes DQ uses a nickel corner a lot in Seattle. The guy that broke his arm in the SB against the pats was a nickel corner and they went downhill after his loss because the next slot corner got toasted. I'd imagine in certain situations we'd leave them on the field now that we have duke. But not often. Especially against our division. 

appreciate the replies fellas!

yeah i'm really curious to see how DQ mixes and matches his personnel. for example...who plays slot CB Poole or Alford? or could Duke actually stay on the field in a nickel situation because of his speed and coverage skills (if the base has Duke, Jones, Campbell)?? looking forward to see how it all shakes out!!!B)

Edited by sanfranfalcon
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13 minutes ago, Reggie_Kelly said:

I see Campbell as a run stuffing LB and the Sam position would be a better fit. He didn't play so well in space but when he was able to use his length on the line, he was able to make stops.

I think Riley will take over the starting Will spot with Campbell taking Wheelers sbaps at Sam. 

Campbell plays just great in space. He wasn't drafted because he was a run stopper, which he is. He was drafted because he was good on coverage, which he is. He's good in space because he's long. Part is the reason he was drafted was for that very reason. He closes space fast and covers space with his length. He uses that to make tackles shorter linebackers would miss. Riley will start in base at WILL and Campbell starts at SLB then moves back to WILL in nickel. Campbell is a 3 down linebacker. Qb's dont like that length on third getting in throwing lanes. 

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29 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

 Allen imo will make the pro bowl this year and then what??

Have to ask, what makes you think Rico will make the PB? 

Not hating, I like the guy. With all the people on the board labeling him "The weakest Link", I'd like to hear from a guy who really knows the X and Os why we can expect him to shine this year. 

Thanks

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2 minutes ago, The O.D.B said:

Have to ask, what makes you think Rico will make the PB? 

Not hating, I like the guy. With all the people on the board labeling him "The weakest Link", I'd like to hear from a guy who really knows the X and Os why we can expect him to shine this year. 

Thanks

Picking up from where he left off in the playoffs. 2 picks and because of how the dline played in the playoffs which lead to those picks. The part that makes Quinn system click is pressure up front. That makes the ball come out quicker and that single high safety can get to the ball easier, quicker, faster. If you let receivers get into the full routes and give the qb time it makes it harder in the single high safety. Especially if you run double seams at him. Also Rico doesn't have to cover for a lot of the mistakes Neal, Campbell, and Jones made and you could tell at the end of the season with the way the defense played and because of this quinn will give him more freedom to roam like Earl Thomas does. I see him coming away with 5-7 picks this season. Earl Thomas wasn't earl Thomas day 1. He developed into the guy everybody loves. This is year 3 in the system. Breakout year for Allen. 

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46 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

its not a comparison. It's simply that round doesn't automatically make a player better or worse than another. It's simply if that guy can play or not. Freeman has made 2 pro bowls. He's a 3rd rounder. Montana wasn't a first rounder but before this last SB was considered the GOAT. Jessie toggle was a walk on. How many 1st round picks have the Falcons had bust? Or ANY team for that matter?? It's about making the right pick in ANY round.  And to your comparison Peterson plays outside. Poole plays slot. No comparison. Allen imo will make the pro bowl this year and then what?? Also name the team that has 1st rounders at all positions?? And they're balling?? That kinda thing just doesn't exist. Teams that draft we'll find talent in all rounds. Campbell has talent. And he's gonna remain a starter. 

I don't really care how many side arguments you want to have the bottom line is Anthony Barr is in another stratosphere compared to Campbell and there is pretty much no scenario Campbell jumps up to that level. 

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11 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Picking up from where he left off in the playoffs. 2 picks and because of how the dline played in the playoffs which lead to those picks. The part that makes Quinn system click is pressure up front. That makes the ball come out quicker and that single high safety can get to the ball easier, quicker, faster. If you let receivers get into the full routes and give the qb time it makes it harder in the single high safety. Especially if you run double seams at him. Also Rico doesn't have to cover for a lot of the mistakes Neal, Campbell, and Jones made and you could tell at the end of the season with the way the defense played and because of this quinn will give him more freedom to roam like Earl Thomas does. I see him coming away with 5-7 picks this season. Earl Thomas wasn't earl Thomas day 1. He developed into the guy everybody loves. This is year 3 in the system. Breakout year for Allen. 

If Allen is a solid FS & Shwietzer is a solid RG, then the Falcons last two drafts are just amazing.

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27 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Picking up from where he left off in the playoffs. 2 picks and because of how the dline played in the playoffs which lead to those picks. The part that makes Quinn system click is pressure up front. That makes the ball come out quicker and that single high safety can get to the ball easier, quicker, faster. If you let receivers get into the full routes and give the qb time it makes it harder in the single high safety. Especially if you run double seams at him. Also Rico doesn't have to cover for a lot of the mistakes Neal, Campbell, and Jones made and you could tell at the end of the season with the way the defense played and because of this quinn will give him more freedom to roam like Earl Thomas does. I see him coming away with 5-7 picks this season. Earl Thomas wasn't earl Thomas day 1. He developed into the guy everybody loves. This is year 3 in the system. Breakout year for Allen. 

All that plus Rico is Quinn's on-the-field leader of that secondary. 

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1 minute ago, Vandy said:

All that plus Rico is Quinn's on-the-field leader of that secondary. 

absolutely. I don't know why ppl undermine that. It's like even when Quinn say things out of his own mouth ppl still truly listen to what he's saying. I think if Quinn didn't have a bigger role for Allen this year we would've drafted a FS early. We drafted depth for the position and also competition to push him in Kazee. And I like that dude a lot. Just don't see him beating out Rico as a rookie. Like you said that secondary leadership is huge from Rico. 

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24 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

I don't really care how many side arguments you want to have the bottom line is Anthony Barr is in another stratosphere compared to Campbell and there is pretty much no scenario Campbell jumps up to that level. 

Anthony Barr is actually a slightly overrated player. Not near as good as Campbell against the run, in fact he's a liability for Vikings there.

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29 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

I don't really care how many side arguments you want to have the bottom line is Anthony Barr is in another stratosphere compared to Campbell and there is pretty much no scenario Campbell jumps up to that level. 

As a rusher??? Campbell doesn't even have the same role as Barr does in minny so that's no comparison. That's your first mistake. Comparing positions that are used totally different. And tue side argument is based on your theory that a first rounder automatically trumps talent taken in the 5th. That's absolutely just boy true. If Campbell's job was a rusher/blitzer in our system then I'd say you have a point. The person you should be comparing Barr to is Beasley. They have similar roles systematically. Campbell was soley a WLB last year. His job was to cover. And to add to your argument there are things Campbell does better than Barr. Like run stopping. So I'm the end your argument has holes all thru it. Players have strengths and weaknesses and the smart coaches put players in position to win. You don't know what Campbell will become after one season compared to Barr just coming off his second season. 

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2 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

absolutely. I don't know why ppl undermine that. It's like even when Quinn say things out of his own mouth ppl still truly listen to what he's saying. I think if Quinn didn't have a bigger role for Allen this year we would've drafted a FS early. We drafted depth for the position and also competition to push him in Kazee. And I like that dude a lot. Just don't see him beating out Rico as a rookie. Like you said that secondary leadership is huge from Rico. 

absolutely the truth. BUT Rico HAS to become a better ball-hawk this season!! and i just don't mean the floaters...kinda like last season. but as you described in an earlier post pressure from the front 7 will definitely help in providing more opportunities....

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5 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

The person you should be comparing Barr to is Beasley. 

Take it up with the person who started this thread. 

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30 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

I don't really care how many side arguments you want to have the bottom line is Anthony Barr is in another stratosphere compared to Campbell and there is pretty much no scenario Campbell jumps up to that level. 

You keep arguing against a point that no  one in the thread is making.

No one is saying that Campbell is as good as Barr, just that he could be used in a similar fashion.

Will  say that their combine numbers are closer than you seem to think.  Barr is bendier, Campbell is faster.

Campbell is an excellent athlete in his own right, if he's learned to react rather than think, he can take a huge leap forward this year. Won't be Barr, can be a big piece of the LB  core for the Falcons.

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