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Voch Lombardi film session: Jordan Willis

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From what I've read he may not be there at 31 he's kinda picking up steam has we get closer to the draft although I wouldn't mind him at 31 I like what I see outta him and I trust DQ 

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14 minutes ago, The Great American said:

I did and that did not answer my question.

Well known draft evaluator. Particularly knows the trenches well with his background as an offensive lineman.

Now, saying that, a very interesting case. I don't like Willis at all, but I guess he could work out. Definitely a project in the making. Of course, I'll cheer you on if you take him with the 31st overall pick, but definitely would be solid value in the second.

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Voch is a coach. Not an expert or anything, does it for fun. His OL vids are pretty good.

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

Did Willis drop 15-20lbs for combine?  He looks a h3LLuva lot bigger than 255lbs to me.  If I did not know, I would guess 270 lbs by looking at this tape.

Probably 260...he was listed at 258 for season...

Thats what a 255lb man that isnt "soft" looks like...Basham is a "soft" dude and so are a few others...

Beasley was barely 240, so of course at 6'4" 255, JOrdan is going to look much bigger....

He was in a read & react defense, so you are not going to the get off on 1st and 2nd down that you get in other defenses....Its calssic Bill Syder defense...

 

A lot of scouting many folks fail to realize is knowing and understanding the systems these guys play in at the college level...it puts perspective in for a good numbers of plays on film...

Thats also why its so important to see them at the combine go through the same drills as everyone else in space....

Dont forget, he was also the SOuth/s Most Outstanding Player at the Senior Bowl with 2 strip sacks...

You need to watch some of the Senior Bowl reps...

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32 minutes ago, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Probably 260...he was listed at 258 for season...

Thats what a 255lb man that isnt "soft" looks like...Basham is a "soft" dude and so are a few others...

Beasley was barely 240, so of course at 6'4" 255, JOrdan is going to look much bigger....

He was in a read & react defense, so you are not going to the get off on 1st and 2nd down that you get in other defenses....Its calssic Bill Syder defense...

 

A lot of scouting many folks fail to realize is knowing and understanding the systems these guys play in at the college level...it puts perspective in for a good numbers of plays on film...

Thats also why its so important to see them at the combine go through the same drills as everyone else in space....

Dont forget, he was also the SOuth/s Most Outstanding Player at the Senior Bowl with 2 strip sacks...

You need to watch some of the Senior Bowl reps...

I hear ya and enjoy your thoughts.   However, there are things on film your explanations cannot explain and type if defense cannot explain.  When Willis does break thru and gets a 1-on-1 shot at QB or RB, he seems to miss the target too much and looks like he doesn't like bending when he tackles.  It just does not look right.

  

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6 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I hear ya and enjoy your thoughts.   However, there are things on film your explanations cannot explain and type if defense cannot explain.  When Willis does break thru and gets a 1-on-1 shot at QB or RB, he seems to miss the target too much and looks like he doesn't like bending when he tackles.  It just does not look right.

  

The last thing I'm worrying about is a prospect that doesn't know how to tackle because Quinn will pull that ish out of them in a hurry.

Question. Why are you so focused on what Willis is NOW instead of what he could be with Quinn's teachings?

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8 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I hear ya and enjoy your thoughts.   However, there are things on film your explanations cannot explain and type if defense cannot explain.  When Willis does break thru and gets a 1-on-1 shot at QB or RB, he seems to miss the target too much and looks like he doesn't like bending when he tackles.  It just does not look right.

  

I agree. I'm having trouble seeing him show that burst and flexibility on tape. I'm watching and re-watching him. Whereas, Watt (like in your sig) I see a bend. I see it in Rivers. I even see it in Moss.

I mean I trust DQ. But usually, I can somewhat like a guy that we're scouting hard; or understand the prospect. I just keep seeing stiff and not playing to his timed speed when I watch Willis

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Posted (edited)

13 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I hear ya and enjoy your thoughts.   However, there are things on film your explanations cannot explain and type if defense cannot explain.  When Willis does break thru and gets a 1-on-1 shot at QB or RB, he seems to miss the target too much and looks like he doesn't like bending when he tackles.  It just does not look right.

  

He does seem to whiff, or hang on and flail around the dude till he goes down. Seems to be getting good penetration and hopefully DQ can coach him up on how to "Arrive Violently".

Edited by Ryan2Jones1989
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1 minute ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

The last thing I'm worrying about is a prospect that doesn't know how to tackle because Quinn will pull that ish out of them in a hurry.

Question. Why are you so focused on what Willis is NOW instead of what he could be with Quinn's teachings?

This is fair. But I just don't see that burst and flexibility that you see in a Avril, or even Bennett. Or Beasley. Or even the aging Freeney. Help me see lol

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7 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

This is fair. But I just don't see that burst and flexibility that you see in a Avril, or even Bennett. Or Beasley. Or even the aging Freeney. Help me see lol

Willis reminds me of bennett more than anybody you listed. He's not a speed rusher like Beasley or Avril. He wins with power and hand usage. He just happens to be pretty dang athletic too. When you watch Bennett, he isn't an 'elite' bender, but he has that get-off and violent hand usage.

G-dawg as been talking about college tape for a while now. Well Bennett's college tape doesn't look good at all. He had a whopping 6.5 sacks in his college career.

 

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1 minute ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Willis reminds me of bennett more than anybody you listed. He's not a speed rusher like Beasley or Avril. He wins with power and hand usage. He just happens to be pretty dang athletic too. When you watch Bennett, he isn't an 'elite' bender, but he has that get-off and violent hand usage.

G-dawg as been talking about college tape for a while now. Well Bennett's college tape doesn't look good at all. He had a whopping 6.5 sacks in his college career.

 

ok so let me understand:

1) Michael Bennett is not elite bender.

2) Michael Bennett's college tape was not impressive either.

3) therefore, draft Jordan Willis.

 

Do you even read what you write before you hit submit?

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9 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Willis reminds me of bennett more than anybody you listed. He's not a speed rusher like Beasley or Avril. He wins with power and hand usage. He just happens to be pretty dang athletic too. When you watch Bennett, he isn't an 'elite' bender, but he has that get-off and violent hand usage.

G-dawg as been talking about college tape for a while now. Well Bennett's college tape doesn't look good at all. He had a whopping 6.5 sacks in his college career.

 

I'm staying out of G-Dawg's and your argument lol. I'm like G-Dawg, thought. I'm having a tough time seeing him worth a #31. Dashean Hall has a longer frame and more weight and great measurables, too.

But, i'll go with your train of thought, as it's at intelligent and being strategic. Do you see Willis adding 20 pounds to be able to handle moving inside on passing downs? To be fair, he moved inside in college. But Bennett (who wasn't drafted) was 270ish at draft time.

 

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4 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

ok so let me understand:

1) Michael Bennett is not elite bender.

2) Michael Bennett's college tape was not impressive either.

3) therefore, draft Jordan Willis.

 

Do you even read what you write before you hit submit?

The point is that college tape is not the end all, be all that you seem to think it is. I didn't think I had to spell it out. You've been harping over college tape for weeks now when you have zero idea what's even being asked of the player on the field. A few guys more versed in the ways of K-State have mentioned read and react. Well, that would explain the 'get off' not matching the 40 time.

 

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6 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

The point is that college tape is not the end all, be all that you seem to think it is. I didn't think I had to spell it out. You've been harping over college tape for weeks now when you have zero idea what's even being asked of the player on the field. A few guys more versed in the ways of K-State have mentioned read and react. Well, that would explain the 'get off' not matching the 40 time.

 

the system does not explain his lack of bend, upright tackling and how many times he misses the target when he has a clean shot.

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2 minutes ago, Bobby.Digital said:

Not the biggest Willis fan but if we draft him I can't be mad. DQ has earned the benefit of the doubt. 

this is where I am on it.

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5 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

I'm staying out of G-Dawg's and your argument lol. I'm like G-Dawg, thought. I'm having a tough time seeing him worth a #31. Dashean Hall has a longer frame and more weight and great measurables, too.

But, i'll go with your train of thought, as it's at intelligent and being strategic. Do you see Willis adding 20 pounds to be able to handle moving inside on passing downs? To be fair, he moved inside in college. But Bennett (who wasn't drafted) was 270ish at draft time.

 

He has the frame for it. I think he's worth 31 just as much as any of the other pass rusher projects (let's be real, they're all projects) like Bowser, Rivers, ect. They're all flying up boards based on measurables. I just think Willis fits the mold, physically and personally, of what we're looking for more-so than the quick twitch guys.

Let me be clear that I do not support a trade up for him though.

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39 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

The last thing I'm worrying about is a prospect that doesn't know how to tackle.

:rolleyes:

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1 minute ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

He has the frame for it. I think he's worth 31 just as much as any of the other pass rusher projects (let's be real, they're all projects) like Bowser, Rivers, ect. They're all flying up boards based on measurables. I just think Willis fits the mold, physically and personally, of what we're looking for more-so than the quick twitch guys.

Let me be clear that I do not support a trade up for him though.

I like your conviction :) I have to agree, all of the pass rushers are flawed. I'm almost loving TK at #63 and just going BPA at #31. I'm not a Takk, Lawson, or Barnett fan. I like Rivers' potential. I do think he's fluid and shows bend--but he's raw.

I do, however, trust DQ. This is the first draft that I can honestly say that I have zero clue who or what position we're picking

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I want Willis bad. He screams everything DQ is about. I think we will end up trading up for Reddick or snagging Willis and going OG in the 2nd. 

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

ok so let me understand:

1) Michael Bennett is not elite bender.

2) Michael Bennett's college tape was not impressive either.

3) therefore, draft Jordan Willis.

 

Do you even read what you write before you hit submit?

don't forget to add...   (4) Bennett makes his most significant impact inside; when not there he is SDE, not the Leo

and (5) we're talking about drafting for a Leo role here, not as a SDE/DT (Bennett)

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3 hours ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

So you haven't seen an absolutely gigantic improvement in team tackling since Quinn came along?

 

Meh, Quinn didn't teach them how to tackle any better. He replaced those old mediocre guys with younger/faster more talented players. 

Back to the thread....hope we go BPA, and don't reach for a 2nd Rd pass rusher with our 1st Rd  pick. 

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