2017 Special Elections...

[Flip Flop 2,451]

1 minute ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

You say that like I don't prefer Uber and Lyft over taxis.

Of course you do.  The old monopoly system was horrible.  According to wiki, there were 233,000 taxi drivers in 2012 making an average of 22k.  Uber is on pace to replace that entire number in a little more than 4 months.  Uber drivers make more than 22k on average, some even make six figures.  Rideshare has improved the taxi market for drivers and customers.  The old monopolies aren't doing as well.  

[Flip Flop 2,451]

I have read that there are about twelve million mobile app developers worldwide.  That is twelve million jobs that couldnt exist eleven years ago.  I realize it isnt a propotional growth rate, but that is approximately a million jobs a year.

[Psychic Gibbon 46,836]

12 minutes ago, Flip Flop said:

I have read that there are about twelve million mobile app developers worldwide.  That is twelve million jobs that couldnt exist eleven years ago.  I realize it isnt a propotional growth rate, but that is approximately a million jobs a year.

My point was that we, as a country, are transitioning from a post-industrial/service economy due to technological developments. Automation is pushing people out of industrial and service jobs while the jobs that are being created are usually just an old industry but made more convenient with that technology, such as Uber. Which leads me back to...

58 minutes ago, Flip Flop said:

uber ~ 50,000 new drivers monthly

I assumed this was referring to drivers in the United States, most likely people popping in as part time drivers, but instead he made this claim about Uber drivers across almost fifty countries. It makes me again question how many jobs that Uber, Lyft, and other rideshare companies are generating in the United States instead of just replacing.

12 minutes ago, Flip Flop said:

I have read that there are about twelve million mobile app developers worldwide.  That is twelve million jobs that couldnt exist eleven years ago.  I realize it isnt a propotional growth rate, but that is approximately a million jobs a year.

Yes, but how many jobs are generating compared to the ones they are phasing out in the United States?

[Flip Flop 2,451]

The  Luddites are always wringing their hands over the buggy whip makers.  The world changes.  Change is good.

[Psychic Gibbon 46,836]

1 minute ago, Flip Flop said:

The  Luddites are always wringing their hands over the buggy whip makers.  The world changes.  Change is good.

If I was a luddite then I'd be on board with that effort taxi drivers made when they tried to get ridesharing banned.

Instead I'm asking how many jobs ridesharing is generating and not just replacing since that feeds into my original point that this industrial revolution is not following the same job creation trends as the previous ones.

[Flip Flop 2,451]

Just now, Psychic Gibbon said:

If I was a luddite then I'd be on board with that effort taxi drivers made when they tried to get ridesharing banned.

Instead I'm asking how many jobs ridesharing is generating and not just replacing since that feeds into my original point that this industrial revolution is not following the same job creation trends as the previous ones.

So, it isnt going to be exactly like the industrial revolution.  The principle applies but the changes are not the exact same changes.  However, people live better lives and have more opportunities now than they did even a few short years ago.  The power of 'the good ole days' is amazing to me.  Ten years ago the same people who think that we need UBI would have told their elders that the 80's are gone man, this is the future and it is awesome.  Now they are the crumugeons telling us that the future is bleak and that we need them to save us.  Well, we need the government to spend taxpayers money to help prop up their businesses the same way the old businesses that they once out competed want the government to prop them up.

The disdain for millineals by GenXers is the same.  My older brother sounds like some one eyed old sailer talking about "these **** kids".

[Psychic Gibbon 46,836]

24 minutes ago, Flip Flop said:

So, it isnt going to be exactly like the industrial revolution.  The principle applies but the changes are not the exact same changes.  However, people live better lives and have more opportunities now than they did even a few short years ago.  The power of 'the good ole days' is amazing to me.  Ten years ago the same people who think that we need UBI would have told their elders that the 80's are gone man, this is the future and it is awesome.  Now they are the crumugeons telling us that the future is bleak and that we need them to save us.  Well, we need the government to spend taxpayers money to help prop up their businesses the same way the old businesses that they once out competed want the government to prop them up.

The disdain for millineals by GenXers is the same.  My older brother sounds like some one eyed old sailer talking about "these **** kids".

I'll try this again:

Industrial revolutions increase productivity which eliminates jobs in certain segments of the population but those innovations usually generate new industries which not only replace the lost jobs but generate even more of them. That kept job creation going at the rate it needed to be at for population growth which kept the economy growing.

What is happening now is that technologies are increasing productivity but the new industries are not creating jobs to keep up with population growth. Even the data you presented to try to disprove this is dubious at best since you're trying to conflate international job creation with job creation in just the United States.

Also, why would I give a **** what GenXers think of us? Maybe if they and boomers did a better job then we wouldn't have been left with such a ****** situation.

[Flip Flop 2,451]

1 hour ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

I'll try this again:

Industrial revolutions increase productivity which eliminates jobs in certain segments of the population but those innovations usually generate new industries which not only replace the lost jobs but generate even more of them. That kept job creation going at the rate it needed to be at for population growth which kept the economy growing.

What is happening now is that technologies are increasing productivity but the new industries are not creating jobs to keep up with population growth. Even the data you presented to try to disprove this is dubious at best since you're trying to conflate international job creation with job creation in just the United States.

Also, why would I give a **** what GenXers think of us? Maybe if they and boomers did a better job then we wouldn't have been left with such a ****** situation.

If jobs are being destroyed faster than they are being created then why has unemployment decreased over the last decade.  We have 4.7% unemployment as opposed.  In 2007 we had 5% unemployment that peaked around 10% and is back below 5% again.  If what you say is true then we should have more unemployment.  This technological trend goes back further than 2007.  Really this entire Century has been part of the technological economy.  

Not conflating anything on purpose.  Doesnt change the fact that technology is good for jobs. 

[WhenFalconsWin 27,646]

2 hours ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

I'll try this again:

Industrial revolutions increase productivity which eliminates jobs in certain segments of the population but those innovations usually generate new industries which not only replace the lost jobs but generate even more of them. That kept job creation going at the rate it needed to be at for population growth which kept the economy growing.

What is happening now is that technologies are increasing productivity but the new industries are not creating jobs to keep up with population growth. Even the data you presented to try to disprove this is dubious at best since you're trying to conflate international job creation with job creation in just the United States.

Also, why would I give a **** what GenXers think of us? Maybe if they and boomers did a better job then we wouldn't have been left with such a ****** situation.

So are you saying the GenXers and boomers who created a lot of this technology are the ones that created a ****** situation?  That statement is dubious at best.  We need to unstrap/unleash our capitalistic entrepreneurs instead of hindering their potential and the job creation you want will be there.  

This is not the Luddites, we need technology that comes from the creative people we have in order to keep up with the job market we need, for the population we have.  Do not discredit old job markets either, especially in the energy field.  

[Psychic Gibbon 46,836]

1 hour ago, Flip Flop said:

If jobs are being destroyed faster than they are being created then why has unemployment decreased over the last decade.  We have 4.7% unemployment as opposed.  In 2007 we had 5% unemployment that peaked around 10% and is back below 5% again.  If what you say is true then we should have more unemployment.  This technological trend goes back further than 2007.  Really this entire Century has been part of the technological economy.  

Not conflating anything on purpose.  Doesnt change the fact that technology is good for jobs. 

The complaint during the Obama years that good paying, full-time jobs were not rebounding but lower paying part-time jobs were filling the void and inflating unemployment numbers was true, and still is. Automation of the service industry, which is around the corner, will break that mirage.

[WhenFalconsWin 27,646]

18 minutes ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

The complaint during the Obama years that good paying, full-time jobs were not rebounding but lower paying part-time jobs were filling the void and inflating unemployment numbers was true, and still is. Automation of the service industry, which is around the corner, will break that mirage.

less than 29 hours a week was written in the ACA so companies did not have to pay for healthcare.  Also a bad side-effect of part time jobs.