MD-FalconFan13

MR2 confirms what we already knew.....SBLI loss on Shanahan

131 posts in this topic

25 minutes ago, trubirdfan4life said:

When the Oline started to crumble, so did the offence, and so did the team

There's where good coaching has to come in. Their play calling in 4th qtr of game crumbled.

Inexcusable. 

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Here's the thing... I hate the patriots.  I do believe they have and always will continue to cheat in ways we know about and ways we don't even know.  They also have a great staff of people who put together good teams and are crafty on game management and adjustments.  

Do you think BB didn't know that our tendency in that situation (23 yrd line 4th qtr) after a 1 yrd loss on a run would be to throw the football?  He did.  He expected that and he called a defensive play based on that.  Like DQ and everyone else said "We did what got us there, being aggressive."  

I'm a fan of DQ's, but perhaps we should start sending copies of Sun Tzu's - The Art of War to him to read so he can understand the mental aspect of the game more.  Small armies have advantages over big armies if you know how to exploit the other's weakness to your advantage.  

But in all reality, I'm over it.  lol.  

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, RichardCNile said:

Here's the thing... I hate the patriots.  I do believe they have and always will continue to cheat in ways we know about and ways we don't even know.  They also have a great staff of people who put together good teams and are crafty on game management and adjustments.  

Do you think BB didn't know that our tendency in that situation (23 yrd line 4th qtr) after a 1 yrd loss on a run would be to throw the football?  He did.  He expected that and he called a defensive play based on that.  Like DQ and everyone else said "We did what got us there, being aggressive."  

I'm a fan of DQ's, but perhaps we should start sending copies of Sun Tzu's - The Art of War to him to read so he can understand the mental aspect of the game more.  Small armies have advantages over big armies if you know how to exploit the other's weakness to your advantage.  

But in all reality, I'm over it.  lol.  

Everytime I think I'm over it, **** like this just pulls me right back in!  Maybe I need to write a stern letter to Dan Quinn and Kyle Shanahan then burn it while counting backwards from 10 and breathing into a paper bag.

Edited by athell
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19 hours ago, BIRDLAND 2.0 said:

MD, props on posting article. First of all, Shannahan even said post SB short yards can be achieved via PASS or RUN, thus based on his game-calling he always favored PASS more. Did he revolutionize the WCO? Yes. Did this team achieve more than was thought possible ? Yes. Was The Mighty Quinn flawed in not for RUNS and getting a high % FG? Yes. And now the $64 million question: Will Quinn always remember the 22 yard line FIASCO and make a more prudent call? I truly believe YES. (Experience is the greatest teacher. The OBJECTIVE was to win regardless of formation and/or play. Next time, I see Quinn reevaluating and choosing simplicity over complexity in the moment.) The final question, based on his career completion %, YPC, endurance, MVP and game winning victories, should THE ICE MAN be trusted to audible a broader category of plays and/or completely change play regardless of audible package given? YES. The kid has a baseline as of 2016 of excellent performance under EXTREME pressure. ( You stat junkies can start listing now.)

Not sure that Quinn will remember.  Why you might ask? Because he was on the Seahawks team that had a similar outcome against the Patriots in the Super Bowl.  (Not running Marshawn Lynch from the one.)

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3 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

Not sure that Quinn will remember.  Why you might ask? Because he was on the Seahawks team that had a similar outcome against the Patriots in the Super Bowl.  (Not running Marshawn Lynch from the one.)

Slants and crosses are the highest % passes in football. Bill Walsh created WCO in Cincinnati for an average armed QB. That play was fine. NE made good break and Quinn was D.C. 

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8 minutes ago, athell said:

Everytime I think I'm over it, **** like this just pulls me right back in!  Maybe I need to write a stern letter to Dan Quinn and Kyle Shanahan then burn it while counting backwards from 10 and breathing into a paper bag.

lol  I love it.  I may do that same... Maybe we could have an "Over it" party in Atlanta and invite everyone to do the same.  

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1 minute ago, BIRDLAND 2.0 said:

Slants and crosses are the highest % passes in football. Bill Walsh created WCO in Cincinnati for an average armed QB. That play was fine. NE made good break and Quinn was D.C. 

Disagree.  The play was not fine, when you have Marshawn Lynch in the backfield. 

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3 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

Disagree.  The play was not fine, when you have Marshawn Lynch in the backfield. 

Whatever, it's all about confusing Defense and packages. Walsh probably would have called it. 

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You can't place blame solely on Shanahan because it was a team effort. I will say this though, for the ultimate corporate pro QB in Matt Ryan to come out and make it a point to say he couldn't audible speaks to me and I do place more blame on Shanahan for that alone, more than anyone else.

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1 minute ago, PHALCONABERNATHY said:

You can't place blame solely on Shanahan because it was a team effort. I will say this though, for the ultimate corporate pro QB in Matt Ryan to come out and make it a point to say he couldn't audible speaks to me and I do place more blame on Shanahan for that alone, more than anyone else.

Shanny has been my scapegoat since the game, tbh.  That's him though, high risk, high reward.  If just one or two of those plays hit, if Freeman picks up a block and Ryan hits a wide open Sanu, none of this is an issue...football is a funny game and Superbowl LI really can be known forever as "A Series of Unfortunate Events" because it really was one thing after another after another that HAD to happen.

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18 hours ago, droopy1592 said:

Most people might disagree but EVERY FUKKING time Shanny peaks calling plays (whenever his offense reaches top five one year) They totally suck *** the next because of his play calling, even with the same personnel. He's gone and I'm sort of glad he's gone. I think the only reason we succeeded so much this year was because DQ forced Shanny to open up his playbook and select plays Matt was comfortable with and that also spread the ball. I feel like Sark and Matt and DQ planning together with Shanny's offensive system will actually keep us in the top offenses in the league. Matt has total understanding and total control of it and I look at Matt like a field general just like PM. He knows what plays to call to reveal or beat whatever coverage. I have faith in Matt, without Shanny. Matt's fourth OC will be checking out in a few years after Matt makes him a wanted man. 

 

We should be glad he's gone

 

Remember the Roddy 3 passes stuff/silliness/ego

Poor play calling and throw it ONLY to Julio (and stone hands when he was healthy, did the same with Andre Johnson) in 2015

He was very predictable the second half of 2015 and it was part (not all) of the reason we went on that slide (Matt was still learning system, some injuries, etc).

We all wanted him out?

The story has been repeated over and over again and I bet next year we would have either 1) won in spite of Shanny  and we know Matt does this because he won in spite of wussy play calling before and we also have a ton of talent on offense 2) totally bombed and been in the bottom 2/3rds of offenses and people are still calling for his head.

 

We will still have a top 5 offense without Shanny this year and it's for the better. I just wish he didn't have his head up his *** for the Superbowl 

You know what happened as well as I do, KS was not the reason we lost. He did take the blame like he was supposed to though. 

The fact that the QB could not change a 'certain' play(s) makes things even more suspicious. 

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8 minutes ago, BIRDLAND 2.0 said:

Whatever, it's all about confusing Defense and packages. Walsh probably would have called it. 

Including "Whatever" in a come back is always one of my faves. I would bet that many more people would agree with my take that they should have gone "Beast Mode" on that play.  Why do I think that?  Oh that's right, there was quite the outcry after the game that the play was stupid.

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3 minutes ago, athell said:

Shanny has been my scapegoat since the game, tbh.  That's him though, high risk, high reward.  If just one or two of those plays hit, if Freeman picks up a block and Ryan hits a wide open Sanu, none of this is an issue...football is a funny game and Superbowl LI really can be known forever as "A Series of Unfortunate Events" because it really was one thing after another after another that HAD to happen.

I think this pretty much sums it up.  Nice synopsis...

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19 minutes ago, BIRDLAND 2.0 said:

Whatever, it's all about confusing Defense and packages. Walsh probably would have called it. 

No, Walsh would have ran Rodger Craig up the middle.

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8 minutes ago, BIRDLAND 2.0 said:

Slants and crosses are the highest % passes in football. Bill Walsh created WCO in Cincinnati for an average armed QB. That play was fine. NE made good break and Quinn was D.C. 

In our situation... We didn't need a TD.  

1. We NEEDED to kill the clock.  

2. A field goal was highly desired to guarantee a win... but the clock killing was the primary thing at that moment of the game (3 minutes left in high percentage FG range).  

3. A TD would also ice the game, but is NOT needed unless you don't achieve objective 1 (kill the clock).  

Our goal was to win the game.  1 pt or 10 pts it doesn't matter.  So you focus on your objectives in the 1-2-3 order above.  We didn't do that when we were at 2nd down and 11 yards from the 23 yard line.  

If we line up and run the ball  or take a knee after letting the clock burn down to 1 second, we end up with one of the following scenarios:

0 time outs left with say 2:45 left on the clock. (they called time out after 2nd down and after 3rd down).  We kick a field goal on 4th down leaving them to score 11 points in about 2:35 (after FG and KO) with zero time outs and the 2 min warning.  

2 time out left with clock at 2 min warning (they let the clock burn after 2nd down and then burn the 15-20 seconds down to the 2 min warning) Again, we kick a FG and KO to them leaving them to score 11 points in about 1:50 (after FG and KO)  on clock with 2 time outs.  

1 time out left with clock at 2:10.  We kick FG and KO  to them burning the clock to like 2:05. They get the ball back with 1 TO the 2 min warning needing to score 11 points 

EVEN of we miss the FG in each of these scenarios, it's better than the situation we created with a sack, a penalty and an Incompletion because we've either burned the clock and/or they have burned one or all of their time outs.  

With being up by 11 points.. Even if they score in like 10 seconds on a KO Return for 6 points, they have to try an Onside Kick.  We get the ball and burn their 2 TO's up on 1st and 2nd down.  3rd down we burn 40 seconds leaving about 1 min on the clock and we short punt to them on 4th down that takes up another 10 seconds so they get the ball needing FG with zero time outs and likely having to move 60 yards to get inside the 37.  

Point being... the pass calls were elementary thinking.  

 

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10 minutes ago, RichardCNile said:

In our situation... We didn't need a TD.  

1. We NEEDED to kill the clock.  

2. A field goal was highly desired to guarantee a win... but the clock killing was the primary thing at that moment of the game (3 minutes left in high percentage FG range).  

3. A TD would also ice the game, but is NOT needed unless you don't achieve objective 1 (kill the clock).  

Our goal was to win the game.  1 pt or 10 pts it doesn't matter.  So you focus on your objectives in the 1-2-3 order above.  We didn't do that when we were at 2nd down and 11 yards from the 23 yard line.  

If we line up and run the ball  or take a knee after letting the clock burn down to 1 second, we end up with one of the following scenarios:

0 time outs left with say 2:45 left on the clock. (they called time out after 2nd down and after 3rd down).  We kick a field goal on 4th down leaving them to score 11 points in about 2:35 (after FG and KO) with zero time outs and the 2 min warning.  

2 time out left with clock at 2 min warning (they let the clock burn after 2nd down and then burn the 15-20 seconds down to the 2 min warning) Again, we kick a FG and KO to them leaving them to score 11 points in about 1:50 (after FG and KO)  on clock with 2 time outs.  

1 time out left with clock at 2:10.  We kick FG and KO  to them burning the clock to like 2:05. They get the ball back with 1 TO the 2 min warning needing to score 11 points 

EVEN of we miss the FG in each of these scenarios, it's better than the situation we created with a sack, a penalty and an Incompletion because we've either burned the clock and/or they have burned one or all of their time outs.  

With being up by 11 points.. Even if they score in like 10 seconds on a KO Return for 6 points, they have to try an Onside Kick.  We get the ball and burn their 2 TO's up on 1st and 2nd down.  3rd down we burn 40 seconds leaving about 1 min on the clock and we short punt to them on 4th down that takes up another 10 seconds so they get the ball needing FG with zero time outs and likely having to move 60 yards to get inside the 37.  

Point being... the pass calls were elementary thinking.  

 

Yep. See Foxsports.com for play by play of that series at 22 yard line. A FG should have been called at 3rd down. Birds were backed up to NE 35, making it a 52 yard FG. Shannahan like Martz has NO flexibility. I believe the Sarkasian hire signals flexibility in pivotal game moments. Once FG made there is roughly 3' 30" on clock. Odds are NE cannot score 11 points. Will Quinn admit he made a mistake? NO, I would not either, publicly. Once he does that everyone questions his competence. Better to discuss pivotal game moments with QB and staff. And we ALL need to move past this angst. Better to learn from this than to keep playing hindsight scenarios.

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57 minutes ago, Flying Falcon said:

No, Walsh would have ran Rodger Craig up the middle.

Maybe or Brent Jones on a slant.

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5 minutes ago, BIRDLAND 2.0 said:

Yep. See Foxsports.com for play by play of that series at 22 yard line. A FG should have been called at 3rd down. Birds were backed up to NE 35, making it a 52 yard FG. Shannahan like Martz has NO flexibility. I believe the Sarkasian hire signals flexibility in pivotal game moments. Once FG made there is roughly 3' 30" on clock. Odds are NE cannot score 11 points. Will Quinn admit he made a mistake? NO, I would not either, publicly. Once he does that everyone questions his competence. Better to discuss pivotal game moments with QB and staff. And we ALL need to move past this angst. Better to learn from this than to keep playing hindsight scenarios.

agree.  

However, as a side note... I do think the Falcons should hire a math prodigy from Ga Tech to sit on the sideline and make/monitor a game clock probability chart to advise the HC, OC and DC on clock management and scoring scenarios.  

An interesting side note to SB LI is that football was originally invented (amount other reasons) to teach young men time management.  hrrmmmm

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10 minutes ago, RichardCNile said:

agree.  

However, as a side note... I do think the Falcons should hire a math prodigy from Ga Tech to sit on the sideline and make/monitor a game clock probability chart to advise the HC, OC and DC on clock management and scoring scenarios.  

An interesting side note to SB LI is that football was originally invented (amount other reasons) to teach young men time management.  hrrmmmm

Or ICE needs to do a QB version of John McEnroe at a tennis match and go off on Quinn or Sarkasian next playoff run! 

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Posted (edited)

17 minutes ago, RichardCNile said:

agree.  

However, as a side note... I do think the Falcons should hire a math prodigy from Ga Tech to sit on the sideline and make/monitor a game clock probability chart to advise the HC, OC and DC on clock management and scoring scenarios.  

An interesting side note to SB LI is that football was originally invented (amount other reasons) to teach young men time management.  hrrmmmm

I'm sure in the heat of the game, some things just fall to the wayside, but I (as I am sure most of us that day) was screaming at the TV when MMatt was snapping the ball with :20 seconds left...screaming when he was dropping back, lost my **** on the holding call and left the room after the sack.  I just cannot fathom a scenario how professionals aren't aware in that scenario that the best bet and safest bet is to run the ball three times and kick the field goal...I will never ever understand the line of thinking that went into that drive.

Edited by athell
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2 hours ago, athell said:

Everytime I think I'm over it, **** like this just pulls me right back in!  Maybe I need to write a stern letter to Dan Quinn and Kyle Shanahan then burn it while counting backwards from 10 and breathing into a paper bag.

LOL athell....now I have a visual inside my head of you doing that!

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2 minutes ago, athell said:

I'm sure in the heat of the game, some things just fall to the wayside, but I (as I am sure most of us that day) was screaming at the TV when MMatt was snapping the ball with :20 seconds left...screaming when he was dropping back, lost my **** on the holding call and left the room after the sack.  I just cannot fathom a scenario how professionals aren't aware in that scenario that the best bet and safest bet is to run the ball three times and kick the field goal...I will never ever understand the line of thinking that went into that drive.

Ditto.

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8 minutes ago, Vandy said:

LOL athell....now I have a visual inside my head of you doing that!

It will get me into less trouble legally than imposing bodily harm on Kyle Shanahan so I feel like it's the best bet :tiphat:

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21 hours ago, droopy1592 said:

Most people might disagree but EVERY FUKKING time Shanny peaks calling plays (whenever his offense reaches top five one year) They totally suck *** the next because of his play calling, even with the same personnel. He's gone and I'm sort of glad he's gone. I think the only reason we succeeded so much this year was because DQ forced Shanny to open up his playbook and select plays Matt was comfortable with and that also spread the ball. I feel like Sark and Matt and DQ planning together with Shanny's offensive system will actually keep us in the top offenses in the league. Matt has total understanding and total control of it and I look at Matt like a field general just like PM. He knows what plays to call to reveal or beat whatever coverage. I have faith in Matt, without Shanny. Matt's fourth OC will be checking out in a few years after Matt makes him a wanted man. 

 

We should be glad he's gone

 

Remember the Roddy 3 passes stuff/silliness/ego

Poor play calling and throw it ONLY to Julio (and stone hands when he was healthy, did the same with Andre Johnson) in 2015

He was very predictable the second half of 2015 and it was part (not all) of the reason we went on that slide (Matt was still learning system, some injuries, etc).

We all wanted him out?

The story has been repeated over and over again and I bet next year we would have either 1) won in spite of Shanny  and we know Matt does this because he won in spite of wussy play calling before and we also have a ton of talent on offense 2) totally bombed and been in the bottom 2/3rds of offenses and people are still calling for his head.

 

We will still have a top 5 offense without Shanny this year and it's for the better. I just wish he didn't have his head up his *** for the Superbowl 

I believe Sarkasian hire signals a balanced WCO. Shannahan is like Mike Martz regarding inflexiblity. 

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