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10 hours ago, K26dp said:

Don't be obtuse. Because it's a racist caricature. 

I'm not being obtuse, whatever the heIl that means. Why is everything all of a sudden racist? That is what I don't understand about all this crap. For 50 years everything was fine but now all of a sudden the name "indians" or "Redskins" or any other "Native American" name is considered racist? I guess you were one of the ones that threw a fit a couple years ago when the Braves wanted to use the Indian logo on their spring training hats?

I have never had anyone ever explain why the name "Indians" is considered racist. I've heard from Indian tribes that they don't care about it. But all these people being offended about everything when it doesn't even concern them. It's like all these people being "offended" over these confederate statues when the majority of black people don't give two ***** about those statues. It's stupid. I hate the way our society is today. People are offended by everyone and everything and are so quick to sue someone. No one knows how to just let things that were fine for 50 years be fine for another 50 years.

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The Indians bumped the logo to "secondary" status in 2014. The problem was during the ALCS and World Series last year they wore the logo as a primary on a big stage. That drew the attention and criticism back. The tribes actually have spoken out against the logo calling it racist and bigoted. They aren't so much concerned with the name as they are the depiction of a Native American. The National Congress of Native Indians actually requested a meeting with Manfred and the Indians to discuss the elimination of the logo completely. 

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2 minutes ago, Unkn0wn said:

The Indians bumped the logo to "secondary" status in 2014. The problem was during the ALCS and World Series last year they wore the logo as a primary on a big stage. That drew the attention and criticism back. The tribes actually have spoken out against the logo calling it racist and bigoted. They aren't so much concerned with the name as they are the depiction of a Native American. The National Congress of Native Indians actually requested a meeting with Manfred and the Indians to discuss the elimination of the logo completely. 

Why is it just now racist? Why wasn't it racist 50 years ago? That's my issue with all this crap. It's like they just woke up one day and said "I'm offended by the Cleveland Indians logo."

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Just now, Falconsfan567 said:

Why is it just now racist? Why wasn't it racist 50 years ago? That's my issue with all this crap. It's like they just woke up one day and said "I'm offended by the Cleveland Indians logo."

It didn't just start. We've just now been getting it in the media. In 1993 the National Congress adopted a resolution calling for the elimination of all Native American mascots at every level of sports.

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1 minute ago, Unkn0wn said:

It didn't just start. We've just now been getting it in the media. In 1993 the National Congress adopted a resolution calling for the elimination of all Native American mascots at every level of sports.

Pretty soon there won't be any mascots allowed at all. Everything is racist and people are offended by everything. That's the path we're going down. Pretty soon PETA is gonna make teams stop using animal mascots. We'll one day just have "The Atlanta Baseball Team" or "The Atlanta Football Team."

And yes, this bothers the heIl out of me because I hate change, especially when things affect what I grew up with.

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On 9/2/2017 at 10:59 AM, Falconsfan567 said:

Why is it just now racist? Why wasn't it racist 50 years ago? That's my issue with all this crap. It's like they just woke up one day and said "I'm offended by the Cleveland Indians logo."

It was racist the day it was drawn. This isn't new. 

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1 hour ago, Falconsfan567 said:

I don't see anything offensive about it. I see a funny, cute logo.

You're not being caricaturized and misappropriated, so it wouldn't be offensive to you. But it's not funny or cute.

 

1 hour ago, Falconsfan567 said:

No different from the Braves indian logo. Did you have a problem with that one too?

 It has exactly the same problem, which is why it and the inappropriate Chief Knockahoma mascot were phased out.

1 hour ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Why isn't the FSU indian logo offensive? What's the difference?

It's not an "indian" it's a Seminole. And as CF says above, the University got the explicit approval of the Seminole nation to use the name and logo. Which, BTW, is not a caricature. 

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1 minute ago, K26dp said:

You're not being caricaturized and misappropriated, so it wouldn't be offensive to you. But it's not funny or cute.

 

 It has exactly the same problem, which is why it and the inappropriate Chief Knockahoma mascot were phased out.

It's not an "indian" it's a Seminole. And as CF says above, the University got the explicit approval of the Seminole nation to use the name and logo. Which, BTW, is not a caricature. 

I'm gonna have to look up caricature because that's the third time you've used that word and I have no idea what the heIl it means.

Also, last time I checked, a Seminole is a specific type of indian.

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30 minutes ago, Ransack said:

Is it racist when the people who it's about don't see it as racist? But I digress this is the baseball board and not off topic.

Yes, because it's objectively racist.

But beyond that, not all Native Americans are blase about this. There are many who have been pushing for change.

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1 minute ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Why is it racist? You said it was caricature and I looked that word up and one the definitions given for it was "to make something look ridiculous." So is that why it is "racist?"

Because the logo is a caricature of an entire race, specifically "indians" (a name in-and-of itself incorrect and problematic). 

Really, this isn't hard. 

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4 minutes ago, K26dp said:

Because the logo is a caricature of an entire race, specifically "indians" (a name in-and-of itself incorrect and problematic). 

Really, this isn't hard. 

So the logo makes all Indians look like bafoons to put it mildly? And now, finally the name is a problem? Ugh. I hate today's society so much. Everyone has to take offense to everything. Why? I don't know. I don't know why people can't just say "it doesn't affect me, so I don't give a ****." This world would be so much better. It's like all these people up and arms over the rebel flag and confederate statues when the majority of the "African American" population doesn't give a **** about it. But you've got all these white people trying to play hero about it.

We can't fix the mistakes of the past by trying to wipe out history and acting like it never happened. All that can be done is moving forward and making sure things are better tomorrow than they are today. Getting rid of the confederate statues is not going to undo years of slavery. Getting rid of Indian logos that look silly isn't going to undo the trail of tears movement that happened. I think that's the only reason people even try to do anything about it today, is that they're trying to erase the mistakes of the past by trying to act like it never happened.

BTW, the confederate flag and statues are not racist. What the people up North refuse to tell you is that they at one time owned slaves as well. Speaking of slaves, not all slaves were BLACK! There was slaves of all races and ethnic groups. But that's what people refuse to acknowledge.

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7 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

So the logo makes all Indians look like bafoons to put it mildly? And now, finally the name is a problem? Ugh. I hate today's society so much. Everyone has to take offense to everything. Why? I don't know. I don't know why people can't just say "it doesn't affect me, so I don't give a ****." This world would be so much better. It's like all these people up and arms over the rebel flag and confederate statues when the majority of the "African American" population doesn't give a **** about it. But you've got all these white people trying to play hero about it.

We can't fix the mistakes of the past by trying to wipe out history and acting like it never happened. All that can be done is moving forward and making sure things are better tomorrow than they are today. Getting rid of the confederate statues is not going to undo years of slavery. Getting rid of Indian logos that look silly isn't going to undo the trail of tears movement that happened. I think that's the only reason people even try to do anything about it today, is that they're trying to erase the mistakes of the past by trying to act like it never happened.

BTW, the confederate flag and statues are not racist. What the people up North refuse to tell you is that they at one time owned slaves as well. Speaking of slaves, not all slaves were BLACK! There was slaves of all races and ethnic groups. But that's what people refuse to acknowledge.

Who said anything about wiping out history? 

It's not about pretending something didn't happen. It's about treating people with human respect in the present

Getting rid of racist logos and names in sports doesn't change the past, but it does show that American values mean that we don't demean now. Getting rid of monuments built during Jim Crow to signify white supremacy in the South doesn't help slaves or the victims of a racist society in the past, but it shows that we as a society won't stand for the bull**** now.

So yes, it's about making sure things are better tomorrow than they are today.

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