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TroyBergeron

A rundown of the top DE prospects for this team + the mock that I think will set this defense up for years to come

23 posts in this topic

At the bottom is a mock that I think will set this defense up for longevity, especially in the lass rush department, whilst also giving us young talented lass rushers on rookie contracts that will allow us to seamlessly move on from players like Reed, Clayborn, and Reed down the line when the age kicks in.

 

Ryan Anderson DE/SLB Alabama 
Born in 1994(exact date not listed; will turn 23 in 2017)
6'2" 253 lbs. 
Arm: 31.5" Hand: 9.375" 
40: 4.75(PD) 
Career Stats: 44 games/128 tackles/39.5 TFL/19 sacks/1 INT(TD)/3 PDef/6 FF/6 FR
Stat Notes: Improved Tackles/TFL/Sacks/FF/FR every season
- NFL ready hand usage, and has a decisive plan each play, of how he is going to get to the QB, or blow up the ball carrier. 
- Anderson is is an underrated athlete, that plays with an unmatched toughness. 
- While he is fairly clean off the field, he has a switch that he flips when in the locker room and on the football field. 
- Instills fear in his opponents, and his old school leadership and demeanor forces teammates to give there all. 
- Has a very similar demeanor to James Harrison and Terrell Suggs. 
- His presence alone is something that improves the defense and his teammates feed off of his presence. 
- Plays with toughness, tenacity, and a fiercness that his opponents will feel with every hit. 
- He doesn't just sack the opposing QB, he annihilates them into the turf. 
- Has violent hands that he knows how to use them. 
- The type of player that every successful defense needs on their team. 
- He is an enforcer, that you can rarely find from the EDGE position. 
- Would make a great SLB to alternate with Beasley, and could also fit nicely into the LEO position. 
- His old school approach to the game is something I believe Quinn would love to add to this team. 
- Equally as successful with his hand in the dirt as he is rushing standing up. 
- what Keanu Neal brought to the secondary, and defense as a whole, is what Anderson would bring to the DL and the entire defense as well. 
- you could say he is the "anti"-Vic Beasley when it comes to how he treats the opposing players.
- Beasley and Anderson would be like thunder and lightning for our pas rush. Anderson, obviously, being the thunder. 
- His moves and every step is calculated, and his high football IQ and intelligence/understanding of the game is what can make him really special, and a solid 8-10 year starter in this league. 

Tanoh Kpassgnon DL Villanova 
6/14/94(23 at start of 2017)
6'7" 289 lbs. 
Arm: 35.625" Hand: 10.625" 
40: 4.83 
Bench: 23 
3-Cone: 7.46 
20-Yd Shuttle: 4.62 
Vert: 30" Broad: 10'8"
Career Stats: 40 games/105 tackles/37.5 TFL/22 sacks/4 FF/3 FR/1 PDef/I INT
Stat Notes: Improved Tackles/TFL/Sacks every season
- Kpassgnon is a massive man, with a frame that could pack on another 10-20 lbs. without sacrificing his elite athletacism. 
- His length and frame is something that a coach like DQ would love to get his hands on, and mold into the versatile DL that he covets. 
- Reminds me of a blend between a young Calais Campbell and Carlos Dunlap, but with the personality and football IQ of Campbell and not Dunlap. 
- Is not very vocal, but leads by action and example. 
- Is a very intelligent and self-driven youn man off the field, and takes football as a priveledge, and not something that he deserves. 
- A workout warriorz that is just beginning to scratch his immense potential as a dominant, versatile DLineman

Derek Rivers DE Youngstown State

Can't find birthdate 
6'4" 248 lbs. 
Arm: 32.75" Hand: 9.375" 
40: 4.61 
Bench: 30 
3-Cone: 6.94 
20-Yd Shuttle: 4.40 
Vert: 35" Broad: 10'3" 
60-Yd Shuttle: 12.43
Career Stats: 49 games/173 tackles/56.5 TFL/37.5 sacks
State Notes: Double digit TFL from 2014-2016.  Double digit sacks in 2014 and 2016(8.0 sacks in 2015)
- I really enjoyed hearing the mutual respect and admiration coach Quinn and Rivers had for each other after we worked him out this week. 
- Rivers is a bright respectful young man that does not take a day for granted and understand that each day is another day to improve his game, and as a man in general. 
- Very high football character, and a true student of the game. 
- Has Improved every aspect of his game, each season in college. 
- An elite collegiate resume, and his name will forever be etched into the school record books. 
- Takes a lot of pride in the rivers name, and truly enjoys helping teammates, and the people in his life, become the best version of themselves that they can possibly become. 
- His raw appreciation for what the game has, and can, do for him reminds me of Devonta Freeman.
- Never takes a play off, or a play for granted. 
- His motor runs hotter than a cast iron skillet, and he doesn't turn off that motor until the clock hits 0:00. 
- A true competitor, and has a genuine love for the game of football. 

TJ Watt DE/SLB Wisconsin
10/11/94(22 at start of 2017) 
6'4" 252 lbs. 
Arm: 33.125" Hand: 11" 
40: 4.69 
Bench: 21 
3-Cone: 6.79 
20-Yd Shuttle: 4.13 
Vert: 37" Broad: 10'8" 
60-Yd Shuttle: 11.20
2016 Stats: 63 tackles/15.5 TFL/11.5 sacks/1 INT(TD)/4 PDef/2 FF/1 FR
Stat Notes: Redshirt in 2013. Injured and missed all of 2014. 7 tackles/1.5 TFL/2 PDef in 2015.
- While he is a top prospect in his own right, the idea that he will be training and learning the nuances of the game from arguably the most dominant DL the game has possibly ever seen, just adds to his value and character. 
- A blue collar gym rat that has truly made football his life. 
- he has an obsession for the game of football, similar to his brothers. 
- His injury history is not something you like, but you can't deny his drive to never be counted out, and the passion to become the best. 
- I think he truly wants to, and believes, that he can overcome his brother as a football player. 
- one of the most competitive players in the draft. 

Jordan Willis DE Kansas State
5/2/1995(22 at start of 2017)
6'4" 255 lbs. 
Arm: 33.5" Hand: 9.875" 
40: 4.53
Bench: 24
3-Cone: 6.85
20-Yd Shuttle: 4.28
Vert: 39" Broad: 10'5"
2014-2016 Stats: 37 games/112 tackles/38.5 TFL/24.5 sacks/6 FF/2 FR/7 PDef
Stat Notes: 1 tackle/1 TFL/1 sack in 2013
- HoF coach Bill Snyder simply loves Willis, and holds him in the highest regard, calling him the "epitome" of KSU football. 
- his game is far from a finished product, and a coach like DQ would turn Willis into one of the most athletic pass rushers this league would have to offer. 
- Given his already stellar production, it is scary what he can become, and would be an absolute crime if he is not one of the first 32 picks in the draft. 
- He is going to get a GM or two fired by not seeing him for what he is, but more importantly, what he will become. 
- Willis is a workout warrior AND a film junkie
- He admits to spending 5 or so hours at a time studying successful NFL lass rushers. 
- You go look at Connor Barwins measurable coming out, and compare them to Willis'. They are nearly identical. Almost scary identical. Barwin with more expereicne, and without the injury problems, is a great comparison for Willis coming out. 
- His favorite player to study is Cameron Wake, and I also see a lot of Cameron Wake in Willis. They both have a burst that simply rarely comes around, not many teams get the opportunity to add to their football team. 
- relentless and passionate are two words to describe Willis'. 
- When you combine athletic marvel, gym rat, film rat, and love for the game, then add in a coach like DQ to guide that talent, and you have something special that you may not see for another 5-10 years
- Willis and DQ would be amtch made in heaven, and I honestly believe his career will be made or brokenz depending on what kind of coaches you surround him with. 

Charles Harris DE Missouri
Born in 1995(will turn 22 in 2017)
6'3" 253 lbs. 
Arm: 32.375" Hand: 9.625"
40: 4.82
Bench: 21
3-Cone: 7.47
20-Yd Shuttle: 4.42
Vert: 32" Broad: 9'1"
60-Yd Shuttle: 12.48
Career Stats: 35 games/136 tackles/34.5 TFL/18.0 sacks/5 PDef/5 FF/1 FR
Stat Notes: Never reached double digit sacks, but had 9.0 in 2016, and 7.0 in 2015. Career high 18.5 TFL in 2015(12.0 in 2016)
- Harris is a prime example of a player that may not text well, but uses sound technique and a non stop motor to get to the quarterback, and make it look easy. 
- his instincts as a pass rusher, are maybe only bested by Myles Garrett and Jonathan Allen in this draft class. 
- His understanding of what moves to use, and when to use them is second to none. 
- He is a true pass rusher, but not an elite athelte, although his burst off the line is something special. 

Carl Lawson DE Auburn 
6/29/95(will be 22 at start of 2017)
6'2" 261 lbs.
Arm: 31.5" Hand: 10.375"
40: 4.67
Bench: 35
3-Cone: 7.46
20-Yd Shuttle: 4.19
Vert: 33" Broad: 9'6"
2016 stats: 12 games/14.0 TFL/9.5/sacks/FF
2013 stats(true freshman): 11 games/7.5 TFL/4.0 sacks/2 FF
Stat Notes: Missed all of 2014 due to injury. Played through injuries for 7 games in 2015 before being shut down for remainder of season(17 tackles/3.0 TFL/1.0 sacks)
- While he has a history of injuries, non of them are career threatening. 
- A former 5 star  recruit with a relentless motor. 
- Uses his meat hooks for hands, and his branches that he calls arms to give OT's absolute fits. 
- His bench press display at the combine, coupled with the body that you see on film is a true testament to how naturally strong this young man is. 
- Even when he was out with injuries, he was the teams vocal leader, and also led by example. 
- has tremendous pass rush instincts
- bends the corner with lighting quick hands and feet, coupled with his massive strength and elite lass rushing technique. 
- 2016 was his first injury free season since his freshman season, and he is still getting his feel for the game back. 
- if he remains healthy, Lawson is a 10+ sack a year player in this league. 

Takkarist McKinley DE UCLA
11/2/95(21 at start of 2017)
6'2" 250 lbs. 
Arm: 34.75" Hand: 9.75"
40: 4.59
Bench: 24
3-Cone: 7.48
20-Yd Shuttle: 4.62
Vert: 33" Broad: 10'2"
2015-2016 stats: 24 games/96 tackles/25.5 TFL/13.6 sacks/10 PDef/5 FF/1 FR
Stat Notes: 4 games/3 tackles/2.5 TFL/2.5 Sacks/1 FF in 2014. Played JUCO I'm 2013(33 tackles/18.0 TFL/10.0 sacks)
- McKinleys success is going to depend alot on the coaches he has around him. Having a DL guru like Quinn guiding him could unlock a true master in the mold of a young Tamba Hali. 
- McKinley has the quickest first step in the draftz and one of the few pass rushers who has a second gear when closing on the QB. 
- he converts speed to power with ease, but needs alot of refinement on his lass rush moves. 
- based on the raw physical skills to be an elite edge rusher, only Myles Garrett has him beat in this years class of you ask me. 

Tim Williams DE Alabama
11/12/93(will turn 24 near end of 2017)
6'2" 244 lbs. 
Arm: 32.75" Hand: 9.25"
40: 4.68
3-Cone: 7.36
20-Yd Shuttle: 4.57
Vert: 33.5" Broad: 10'4"
2015-2016 Stats: 25 games/49 tackles/27.5 TFL/18.5 sacks/3 PDef/2 FF/1 FR
2013-2014 Stats: 9 games/8 tackles/2.5 TFL/1.5 sacks
- his instincts as a pass rusher, and feel to be the first one off the line is the reason why some teams are willing to look past his character concerns. 
- I don't believe he is a total lost cause like Randy Gregory, but its going to take a strong locker room and group of coaches to get him on the right path. 
- Not sure if he's worth the risk, but if anyone can max out his potential as a game breaking pass rusher, its DQ and co. 
- Its Thomas Dimitroff that makes me think he might be completely off our board already. 

Tyus Bowser DE/SLB Houston
5/23/95(will be 22 at start of 2017)
6'3" 247 lbs. 
Arm: 33.25" Hand: 10.125"
40: 4.65
Bench: 21
3-Cone: 6.75
Vert: 37.5" Broad: 10'7"
Career Stats: 43 games/137 tackles/28 TFL/22.5 sacks/2 INT/9 PDef/3 FF/2 FR
Stat Notes: only slight improvement in production between Freshman and Senior seasons(6.5 TFL/3.5 sacks). 
- While he is as raw of an athlete as they come, I question if he is nothing more than "looks like Tarzan, but plays like jane"
- not the biggest fan of him, but I also understand that we have met with him, and that in itself says something of our level of interest and belief that our coaches can help him reach his full potential. 
- A quick twitch athlete, who could literally play anywhere in the front 7, given the appropriate amount of coaching and repetitions. 

Tarell Basham DE Ohio 
3/18/94(just turned 23)
6'4" 269 lbs.
Arm: 34.25" Hand: 10.25"
40: 4.70
Bench: 15
3-Cone: 7.27
20-Yd Shuttle: 4.35
Vert: 31.5" Broad: 9'11"
Career Stats: 50 games/152 tackles/38.5 TFL/27.0 sacks/5 FF/1 FR/5 PDef
Stat Notes: 2nd highest sack total for a season was as a freshman(7.5). Highest sack total was as a senior(9.0)
- based solely on frame and build, basham would go no later than round 2. 
- his unpolished game and lack of pass rush instincts is what's holding him back from greatness. 
- I do question if he truly has unlimited potential like some say, but his combine numbers and that NFL ready body is easily seating me to wanting DQ to take a chance on him, and see what he can mold him into. 

12. Dawuane Smoot DE Illinois
3/2/95(just recently turned 22)
6'3" 264 lbs. 
Arm: 33.25" Hand: 9.25"
40: 4.77
3-Cone: 7.18
20-Yd Shuttle: 4.39
Vert: 29.5" Broad: 9'9"
Career stats: 40 games/136 tackles/38.5 TFL/15.5 sacks/5 PDef/4 FF/2 FR
Stat Notes: 29.5 TFL last 2 seasons, but only 12.0 sacks.
- a rock solid overall player, that does nothing exceptional, but nothing elite
- very disruptive, but his TFL:Sack ratio is somewhat alarming for even a late day 2 pick. 
- I would definitely like him on the team, but would have a hard time agreeing to anything more than a 4th rounder spent on someone who I think may already be coming close to his ceiling when it comes to pass rush skills and productivity. 

13. DeMarcus Walker DL Florida State 
9/30/94(will turn 23 early in 2017)
6'4" 280 lbs. 
Arm: 33" Hand: 10.5" 
Bench: 18
Career Stats: 49 games/179 tackles/41.5 TFL/27 sacks/1 INT/8 PDef/7 FF/2 FR
Stat Notes: Over last 2 seasons, Walker amassed 123 tackles/33.5 TFL/25.0 sacks/1 INT/7 PDef/6 FF/2 FR
- On tape, I simply love what Walker can do. 
- He brings a non stop motor, and couples it with great technique and insticnts a lass rusher. 
- he can move from outside to inside with ease, and has the body to do so early in his NFL career. 
- I really like his game, football IQ, and character, but I don't know if he's worth more than a 3rd rounder. 

14. Daeshon Hall DE/SLB Texas A&M
6/14/95(will be 22 at start of 2017)
6'5" 266 lbs. 
Arm: 35" Hand: 9.625" 
40: 4.76 
Bench: 18 
3-Cone: 7.03 
20-Yd Shuttle: 4.38 
Vert: 36" Broad: 10'3"
2015-2016 stats: 25 games/104 tackles/27.5 TFL/10.5 sacks/3 PDef/4 FF/2 FR
2013-2014 stats: 17 games/36 tackles/8.0 TFL/3.5 sacks/1 INT(TD)
- I'm not as high as some on Hall, but I think he would be a **** of a 3rd round pick, IF, and only IF, we get a more finished product in rounds 1 or two. 
- hall has all the physical tools of someone who can play anywhere on the edges of a front 7, and given time, could be a fringe pro-bowl caliber player. 
- what make me nervous about him, is that I question if he is just another DE with perfect size and athleticism, but just has limited instincts and feel for the game. 
- I still am holding out hope for him, and would gladly welcome him in the 3rd or 4th, if we get a more NFL ready lass rusher in rounds 1 or 2.  

With this deep class of DE's, and our long history of lack of talent at the position, I think it's best we double dip in the first 3 rounds, and grab 2 players that can develop into havoc wreckers to add to this young and ferocious defense. We could build something similar to what the Giants had in 2007. 

1) Derek Rivers DE Youngstown State

2) Dion Dawkins OG Temple

3) Carl Lawson DE Auburn

4) Rudy Ford FS Auburn

5) Brandon Bell LB Penn State

7) Kyle Kalis OT Michigan 

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1 hour ago, Kayoh said:

Wow dude, you put a lot of work into this. Even if I don't necessarily agree with everything I've gotta give you props for the sheer will power to put this together. Good job man.

Appreciate it sir. It has been my lifelong dream to be a scout for the Atlanta falcons, and would like to start my own website similar to Walter football down the line. Ironically, I'm kinda disappointed about the effort I out into this. I was getting very tired, and I'm lacking WiFi at the moment, sou couldn't attatch YouTube videos, and got lazy with the scouting reports. I got especially lazy on the mockz and my final mock I will be working on for a few days, with in depth scouting on each draft pick. Hopefully I will have WiFi by then, so I can add video analysis. I have been following this thread and TATF for at least 15 years religiously since I was about 9 or 10 years, and I've been more passionate about scouting and the falcons more than anything in my life. I love this stuff. 

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11 minutes ago, TroyBergeron said:

Appreciate it sir. It has been my lifelong dream to be a scout for the Atlanta falcons, and would like to start my own website similar to Walter football down the line. Ironically, I'm kinda disappointed about the effort I out into this. I was getting very tired, and I'm lacking WiFi at the moment, sou couldn't attatch YouTube videos, and got lazy with the scouting reports. I got especially lazy on the mockz and my final mock I will be working on for a few days, with in depth scouting on each draft pick. Hopefully I will have WiFi by then, so I can add video analysis. I have been following this thread and TATF for at least 15 years religiously since I was about 9 or 10 years, and I've been more passionate about scouting and the falcons more than anything in my life. I love this stuff. 

That's cool man. I'd love to be a pro scout too but my goal isn't to put in the most work or write the most scouting reports, my goal is to transcend watching tape entirely with nothing but numbers made available to me.

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I noticed you started numbers at Smoot, are they ranked as far as best rushers?

 

Yeah, that's good work man. I remember when I use to have the time to go deep into these guys like that. Nice work. Gonna have to check out Anderson more when I get the chance.

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1 hour ago, datchrisb1 said:

I noticed you started numbers at Smoot, are they ranked as far as best rushers?

 

Yeah, that's good work man. I remember when I use to have the time to go deep into these guys like that. Nice work. Gonna have to check out Anderson more when I get the chance.

No, I was just giving numbers in my notes app to separate them. Not in any particular order, just forgot to delete the numbers in front of each player from smoot on down. Literally just represents who I wrote up first. 

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1 hour ago, datchrisb1 said:

I noticed you started numbers at Smoot, are they ranked as far as best rushers?

 

Yeah, that's good work man. I remember when I use to have the time to go deep into these guys like that. Nice work. Gonna have to check out Anderson more when I get the chance.

It's not about whether you have the time or not. If you are passionate about something enough, you make time for it. I simply LOVR scouting players, down to the smallest intricacies of each individual prospect. 

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1 hour ago, TroyBergeron said:

It's not about whether you have the time or not. If you are passionate about something enough, you make time for it. I simply LOVR scouting players, down to the smallest intricacies of each individual prospect. 

Haha,  I had the passion. That's before I had kids, my life was totally different.  Yeah, that's sounds good when said like that though, lol...

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6 hours ago, datchrisb1 said:

Haha,  I had the passion. That's before I had kids, my life was totally different.  Yeah, that's sounds good when said like that though, lol...

Lol I'm just saying, if you care about something enough, you can usually make time for it at some point. So Chris, who are your top 3 realistic DE players for us? And do you like the idea of double dipping in the first 3 or 4 rounds to develop long term depth and talent at the position we have been the most anemic in the last decade, whilst looking past depth at other positions of need?(although we don't really have any dire needs outside of DE and RG. You could argue depth at LB and OT is a need.) I am also not understanding why fans are mocking early round TE's and calling that position a need. Hooper is the long term starter. Toilolo just signed an extension, and the underrated, Uber athletic Josh Perkins is a promising talent that played under the tutelage of Sark while he was leading the ship at UW. 

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2 hours ago, TroyBergeron said:

Lol I'm just saying, if you care about something enough, you can usually make time for it at some point. So Chris, who are your top 3 realistic DE players for us? And do you like the idea of double dipping in the first 3 or 4 rounds to develop long term depth and talent at the position we have been the most anemic in the last decade, whilst looking past depth at other positions of need?(although we don't really have any dire needs outside of DE and RG. You could argue depth at LB and OT is a need.) I am also not understanding why fans are mocking early round TE's and calling that position a need. Hooper is the long term starter. Toilolo just signed an extension, and the underrated, Uber athletic Josh Perkins is a promising talent that played under the tutelage of Sark while he was leading the ship at UW. 

As far as DEs, to me it's according to which direction they go initially. To me we still need an inside out guy who is also a legit pass rusher on the outside. That's the type of guy we need opposite Beasley, after that we need a sub package guy or a guy who can spare Beasley. That's how I see things. The fact that they are so into Haason Riddick tells me that they probably plan on putting Campbell at LEO. I just don't see any other reason to workout Riddick with Campbell still there unless you plan on making him into a pass rusher up front. He has the speed, size, and length. So, if that's the case my first choice is Solomon Thomas if they move up,  Derrick Barnett also fits here in my opinion. My guy if we stay put is Malik McDowell. I think it's possible for him to fall to 31, if not close enough not to give up the house to go get him. Guys later in the draft that fit this would be Hunter Dimick and Tanoh Kpassognon (know he's not a first round guy).  I know people are into the Carl Lawson, TJ Watts, Charles Harris' and all, but to me players of that type are needed later. We have Beasley right now, the other guy opposite of him needs to be an inside out guy. So as far as that type of player goes, I'm interested in Joe Mathis, Tarral Basham, Derek Rivers, Darius English, or Daeshon Hall. Don't believe we are going that Charles Harris/Tim Williams type player in the first round. My thinking is more scheme specific.

 

Considered value, what it would take to possibly get said player, and how he fits

1. Solomon Thomas

2. Hunter Dimick

3. Malik McDowell

4. Derrick Barnett

5. Joe Mathis

6. Tanoh Kpassagnon

7. Daeshon Hall

8. Derek Rivers

9. Tarrel Basham

10. Carrol Phillips

11. Darius English

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4 hours ago, TroyBergeron said:

Lol I'm just saying, if you care about something enough, you can usually make time for it at some point. So Chris, who are your top 3 realistic DE players for us? And do you like the idea of double dipping in the first 3 or 4 rounds to develop long term depth and talent at the position we have been the most anemic in the last decade, whilst looking past depth at other positions of need?(although we don't really have any dire needs outside of DE and RG. You could argue depth at LB and OT is a need.) I am also not understanding why fans are mocking early round TE's and calling that position a need. Hooper is the long term starter. Toilolo just signed an extension, and the underrated, Uber athletic Josh Perkins is a promising talent that played under the tutelage of Sark while he was leading the ship at UW. 

As far as the tight ends thing, personally when I did it, it was out of greed. I just love the potential in Bucky Hodges, can't speak for anyone else. 

As far as the double dipping, specifically, I think we need a sub-package or backup weakside rusher and a legit strongside rusher out of this draft. Need to add depth at LEO and more talent opposite the position. Not saying I'm oppose to taking someone like Charles Harris or Derek Rivers in the first. It's just to me in our system, the guy opposite Beasley in our system needs to be pretty adequate 2 gapping (even though second half of the season when Quin took over they didn't do that that often), just going off what I currently see, if they are investing a first round pick in someone he's going to start and to me technically Beasley and say Rivers would be at the same position unless on obvious passing downs. I think they get a "Rivers" type player later. If they get a D-lineman, I see them targeting an inside out pass rusher type guy, only early guys who fit that to me are Johnathan Allen, Solomon Thomas, Derek Barnett, and Malik McDowell.  

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On 3/20/2017 at 4:24 AM, TroyBergeron said:

 

 

Great breakdown Troy, A few questions based on where we pick.

  1. In reviewing these guys, who do you think has the most full tool belt of pass-rush moves prior to being coached up? (for me it's TJ Ward and he seems to be far ahead of the rest in what he brings to the table, in skill only.) 
  2. who do you see as having the best vision? (I see about 3 with really good vision and the rest get lost on some plays, I like Tak and TJ)
  3. In watching these guys who were the 1 or 2 that jumped out at you as Game changers (our pick in mind)?

 

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On 3/20/2017 at 11:22 AM, Kayoh said:

Wow dude, you put a lot of work into this. Even if I don't necessarily agree with everything I've gotta give you props for the sheer will power to put this together. Good job man.

Agree! Don't want Watt or Lawson due injury concerns regarding your draft list. 

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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, The O.D.B said:

Great breakdown Troy, A few questions based on where we pick.

  1. In reviewing these guys, who do you think has the most full tool belt of pass-rush moves prior to being coached up? (for me it's TJ Ward and he seems to be far ahead of the rest in what he brings to the table, in skill only.) 
  2. who do you see as having the best vision? (I see about 3 with really good vision and the rest get lost on some plays, I like Tak and TJ)
  3. In watching these guys who were the 1 or 2 that jumped out at you as Game changers (our pick in mind)?

 

I appreciate the questions O.D.B, and here are my personal views in your questions: (could pick a few for each answer but will focus on the single player that best fits the answer)

1) When it come down to strictly the most NFL ready pass rush arsenal, I'd have to go with Charles Harris. He has a wide array of moves and has multiple counters for each situation. While his TFL numbers are among the best in this class, he has ALOT of work to do to become a solid run-stopper. He is a one dimensional player at this stage, but can step in as a situational lass rusher on day 1, and could produce 5-7 sacks in a situational role his rookie year, barring any injuries. The reason why he is dropping in mocks/rankings are just magnified reasons as to why he wasn't projected earlier before the combine: overrated would be too harsh, but his combination of athleticism and strength is not on the same level as his draft counterparts projected to be selected in the same range. What is keeping him in the discussion though, is he is a true technician as a pass rusher, and displays a wide array of polished moves, while executing them in textbook fashion most of the time. Combine his lack of elite athleticism, and the fact that he's a 1 dimensional player at this point in his career is why you see him slipping in mocks. His ceiling simply isn't as high as the others but is a safe 3-4 roindplayer, and that's where I think he will end up going. Teams just don't have the urgency to draft a one dimensional DE, who is lacking top notch athleticism, with a lower ceiling than other top pass rushers, and will not be able to successfully enter the league as an every down player. With high round Dae prospects, such as 1st and 2nd round picks, teams usually want a player that is either, 1) an elite athlete with tremendous upside and size, or , 2)a solid 3 down player with the tools to produce early, whilst also having alot of room to grow and improve. That's why, Harris, who I don't believe has "maxed out" his potential by any means, but has a much lower ceiling than other DE prospects, and is a average at best contributor in the run game, will be like a few DEs that we see every year, that are projected 1st rounders, all up until draft day, and drop to the kid rounds due to his limited overall game entering the league. His readiness as a pass rusher could easily still score him a 2nd round contrackz but I see him falling to rounds 3 and 4 due to everything I've talked about in this answer. His ceiling is similar to what Cliff Avril is right now for the seahawks, which I would welcome with open arms, but part of the reason Avril is so successful as a pass rusher, is because he is part of a rotation that allows him to focus on being that situational pass rusher, and that deep, versatile rotation also allows the coaches to avoid putting him in situations that his teammates could perform better in, like run stuffing. DQ believes, and runs, a very similar system here in Atlanta, where he is going to take 9-11 DL that each bring something different to the table and only out them into the situations that best suit there skill set. That's why some may think I'm being hard on Harris, but his game will not be suited for every defense, thus why some teams will pass on him, and don't be surprised if he's there in the 3rd, or even 4th. He does though, fit our scheme of rotating players in situations to fit there strengths. That is why he is possibly going to end up as my ideal 3rd round pick I'm my final mock. In the right situation, he could have a successful career similar to Cliff Avrilz and how Seattle deploys them in the field. But if he gets drafted by a team that doesn't run a DL scheme that is heavily based on rotation, he may have a hard time to find his footing in this league, especially if a coach is playing him heavy on run downs, thus taking away his energy to be solely dedicated to being a potentially stellar situational pass rusher, and also putting him in those run downs that don't fit his skillet, which will in turn, hurt the defense by having a DE on run downs, that doesn't excel in run defense. That's why I have so much faith in DQ and his heavy DL rotations. He only puts his players in situations where he has good intuition that they will succeed. Harris would fit in this scheme.

2) getting exhausted, no this and #3 will be quick answers, and I'll revisit them and edit in morning. Answer is Tim Williams, because of natural instincts and feel for pass rushing. Elite instincts. More in depth answer tomorrow. 

3. Ryan Anderson(for multiple reason ill get into tomorrow) and TJ Watt)again, for multpile reasons. Cant keep eyes open. Going to sleep for first time since Sunday night lol. C ya soon fam

Edited by TroyBergeron
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16 hours ago, TroyBergeron said:

 

Thanks Troy, good take on Harris. He's one I really have had a hard time putting my finger on. Certain plays he looks like he's the best, quickest guy in the draft. Other plays he looks like a 4th round DE, if that. 

I'm interested to hear more on Ryan Anderson. When I watch him I see a guy who could've been a great rusher but was asked to stay at home more since Williams was their Tasmanian devil. He's one that makes me wonder if he could be a better pro than what he showed in school. 

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4 hours ago, The O.D.B said:

Thanks Troy, good take on Harris. He's one I really have had a hard time putting my finger on. Certain plays he looks like he's the best, quickest guy in the draft. Other plays he looks like a 4th round DE, if that. 

I'm interested to hear more on Ryan Anderson. When I watch him I see a guy who could've been a great rusher but was asked to stay at home more since Williams was their Tasmanian devil. He's one that makes me wonder if he could be a better pro than what he showed in school. 

Youre feelings towards Anderson is mutual. If I didn't factor in who I think the team will take, and just go with who I want, I'd take Anderson at 31, and never look back. He is, like you said, going to be a far better pro than a college player, and he's been a pretty good college player the past couple years. He isn't an elite athletes, but is underrated. He was a 5 star HS player, so he has good pedigree. What sets him apart from ALL pass rushers, including Garrett, is his demeanor and aggressiveness. If you do some research, you will read articles about how some teammates of Anderson's are scared of him, because he will call ANYOBE out, who isn't give it there all... in practice. He is a firm believer the weekly "precess" of winning, and understand team ball, coming from a college juggernaut. His instincts on the football field are elite. He has a nose for the ball, and flies to it. Plays much faster than clocked time, and his clocked time was far from bad. I can't stress enough how rare his demeanor, and toughness for ANY football player, let alone a soon-to-be rookie. He gives out tough love end lectures to teammates, when he doesn't think they are giving there best. Will NEVER be content, or settle in and be satisfied. Pushes himself, and his teammates, to the limits everyday to focus on becoming a better man and player. He always has, and always will be a leader, and he is a true 'alpha" in the locker room on, and off he field. Watch his hits, and especially his sacks, and he doesn't sack QBs, he flat out picks them up and plants them into the ground.

His mental make up reminds me so **** much like Terrell Suggs and James Harrison. He is the enforcer every team needs, and is a true "bully" on the field, without crossing the line into yellow flag territory. He has, an almost, squeaky clean record (minus a VERY minor domestic incident, but did not lay a finger on tmanybody) and coaches and teammates speak to the highest degree when speaking of Anderson. He has this rare thing in his head that all elite, top level enforcers have, and that's... The proverbial "switch" he turns on when walking into the football stadium, that is his true sanctuary and escape from everything life bring his way. Minus the penalties, his intensity is very similar to Ndamukong Suh. You out the personalities and aggressive mindset on the football field of: Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Suh, and James Harrison, into a bowl, mix it up, and out come the personality of Ryan Anderson. Football IQ, along with football character are going to make some teams become infatuated. 

While he could excel as a 3-4 OLB, his best position is widely considered to be a 4-3 SAM or LEO type role. He has a great burst, and skillet wise, his best quality might be his hand usage, which he will enter the league with above average hands at least, on day 1 of rookie OTA's. His hand placement is stellar, and is as much a technician as he is a man posessed. His hands are as veliont and tschincall sound as they come, routinely striking the OT and jolting him back, and quite often will cause the OT to lose his footing from that jolt. At that point, the battle is already won. 

The most impressive quality of Ryan's game is that he he's VERY polished, and VERY decisive on how he is going to attack a blocker on a step by step basis. He says he already has a counter move etched in his mind, for every look an OT could give him, and a counter for that counter, and so on and so on. He plays with a throwback 1970s mentality, but is very calculated, and has a sound method to his relentless madness. Truly has the composite of a 10 year bet. The fire inside burns like very few football players I've seen especially at his age and stage of his career. 

Not taking into account on what way I think the team will go, my dream mock would be as follows(its what I want to happen, not necessarily what I think will happen, so that why j traded down in this mock only. Side note: Id love to trade down for real in April. 

!!!!! TRADE !!!!! - ATL trades back from 1st to 2nd to pick up an extra 3rd, and also sending the our 5th rounder in that teams direction as well. 

2) Ryan Anderson SAM/LEO Bama - Can strap in from day 1 and be a solid contributor at LEO and SAM on day 1. 

2) Jarrad Davis LB Florida - Along with Anderson, and DeBo and Keanu last year, DQ gets another player that is truly the epitome of what he wants out of a player and displays it every snap he is on the field. Fast, physical, aggressive, relentless, and intelligent. Would push for a starting spot day 1, and ideally he would start, and Campbell would become somewhat of a super backup, that could spell any starting LBer, and the drop off in play would be nearly unnoticeable. Davis fits like a glove, and would be a potential perennial pro bowler on this squad. 

3) Charles Harris DE Missouri - IMO, Harris is going to be most successful in this league on a 4-3 team that runs a heavy rotation, and would allow a one dimensional(flashes dominence in that part of his game) player like Harris to be on the field only as a lass rusher his first season or two, while he works on his run stopping and adds some strength and mass. Harris is not a 3 down player right now, and will fall because of that, coupled with the average numbers he posted in Indy. Harris, along with Beasley and Anderson, would give us 3 stud pass rushers. All have shown flashes of dominance as a game breaker, but each of them are vastly different in how they get to the QB. Harris is a finesse player, and a pure pass rusher. He will struggle on run downs early in his career, but a coach like DQ will limit those appearances on run downs to a minimum give out top notch depth and versatility in our DL group. Doing so will save energy for Harris, so he can pin his ears back and have coach Quinn cut him loose on pass rush downs to terrorize opposing QBs. Double dipping on pass rushers in this draft would potentially do for our DL, as what drafting Tru and Alf in 2013 did for the secondary. 

3) Marcus Maye FS Florida - Some may see this as not a need, but I'll explain just why FS is e HUGE need for us either next year or this year. Rico Allen will be looking for a long term contract next year, because we will definitely never franchise him. He will want higher than he is worth, and in the 3rd we get a potential late 1st rounder(pre leg injury) in the 3rd. Maye has years of chemistry with our starting SS and starting NB. Physically, he is better in every aspect han Allen, only thing Alen has on him is understanding of the scheme. Grabbing our FS of the future a hear before Allen hits the market will allow Maye to be an understudy for a year, unless he wins the job early, and learn the playbook and find his role in the brotherhood. Maye plays with a confidence and swagger like no other. He is a true CF FS prospect, but what makes him special is he is a heat seeking missile in the secondary. DQ has said multiple times how important tackling is for the FS in his scheme, because you are truly the last line of defense more often than not. Maye is an upper echelon tackler for a usual FS prospect. Transitioning from Allen to maye in 2018 will also help our payrole by keeping another starter(and potentially an improvement) in the rookie salary range, so the money will help extend Beaz, DeBo, Neal, Jarrett. 

4) Danny Isidora RG Miami (FL) - Isidora brings solid technique, high football IQ/character, and top notch athleticism for a RG prospect to one of the best OL in the entire NFL. I believe Schweitzer is being groomed to replace Levitre, and I don't even think he will get solid contribution.

7) Ben Braden OL Michigan - Braden is a superb athlete, with a mountain of a frame. He is built similar to former Michigan OT greats, Taylor Lewan and Jake Long. Braden would be a very fine piece to mold into one of the better swing IT's in the league, while also potentially being a Schraeder replacement down the line, and can also kick inside to add depth all along the OL. 

I don't do trades in mocks where I try to predict, but I do trade up or down in dream mocks, because its my dream lol, but i try to remain as realistic as possible. Lmk what you guys think. I will probably only be doing one more mock, and that will be the night before the draft, or a couple days before. Lmk what you think about the dream mock, and thoughts on just how talented and dominant this defense with these added pieces could become. 

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1 hour ago, Kayoh said:

if we draft ryan anderson I might actually physically vomit

Why? While I might not love every prospect we draft, I have 110% confidence in Quinn, TD and Pioli. Not saying that all Quinn and Co.'s picks will be pro bowlers, but that I have 110% confidence that DQ has a clear vision for that player, and the transition to pro ball would be exponentially easier for any prospect to make the transition, if he is given a clear cut role and plan. 

As for Anderson, alot of people(not saying you) will only look at the combine numbers. Thebcokkon denominator between what separates all players between average NFL players, and elite, is what is in between the ears, and how they approach the game. That's why every workout warrior isn't a sure fire playmaker in the league. Anderson has a fire on the level of Terrell Suggs and James Harrison. He also had a pretty solid combine, and a 4.75 at his pro day. His technique, mental and physical toughness, and hand usage are what will seperate him from other players that are higher ranked, when writers publish re-drafts in 3 years. I have a good feeling Ryan Anderson will be in that first round pre-draft. 

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4 minutes ago, TroyBergeron said:

Why? While I might not love every prospect we draft, I have 110% confidence in Quinn, TD and Pioli. Not saying that all Quinn and Co.'s picks will be pro bowlers, but that I have 110% confidence that DQ has a clear vision for that player, and the transition to pro ball would be exponentially easier for any prospect to make the transition, if he is given a clear cut role and plan. 

As for Anderson, alot of people(not saying you) will only look at the combine numbers. Thebcokkon denominator between what separates all players between average NFL players, and elite, is what is in between the ears, and how they approach the game. That's why every workout warrior isn't a sure fire playmaker in the league. Anderson has a fire on the level of Terrell Suggs and James Harrison. He also had a pretty solid combine, and a 4.75 at his pro day. His technique, mental and physical toughness, and hand usage are what will seperate him from other players that are higher ranked, when writers publish re-drafts in 3 years. I have a good feeling Ryan Anderson will be in that first round pre-draft. 

I don't have 110% confidence in them. Why? Because of the 2015 draft. They wanted Fowler. I've never been so happy that we didn't get the guy we wanted. Beasley was #3 on my big board that year. Fowler was #42.

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1 hour ago, Kayoh said:

I don't have 110% confidence in them. Why? Because of the 2015 draft. They wanted Fowler. I've never been so happy that we didn't get the guy we wanted. Beasley was #3 on my big board that year. Fowler was #42.

They wanted Fowler? Just Fowler? I'm sure they wanted a few players, but didnt want to sacrifice draft capital. As far as I understood, any trade up would be been for leonard Williams or Brandon scherff and not Dante fowler. 

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1 minute ago, TroyBergeron said:

They wanted Fowler? Just Fowler? I'm sure they wanted a few players, but didnt want to sacrifice draft capital. As far as I understood, any trade up would be been for leonard Williams or Brandon scherff and not Dante fowler. 

The prominent rumor post-draft is that we wanted to trade up to get Fowler, but then when he got picked at 3 we were trying to trade up for one of those guys as well. Couldn't get it done so we "settled" for the freakiest edge rusher in the class in Vic.

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1 hour ago, Kayoh said:

I don't have 110% confidence in them. Why? Because of the 2015 draft. They wanted Fowler. I've never been so happy that we didn't get the guy we wanted. Beasley was #3 on my big board that year. Fowler was #42.

It was rumored we wanted Flower then it changed to Leonardo Williams on draft day when the trade rumors popped up.  

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