takeitdown

Toilolo vs Bennett

56 posts in this topic

I was glad to see the team signed Poe (as were most of us.)  If he can get back to prior form at all, then the DL can make a big step forward.

However, I was confused earlier at the relatively high dollar contracts for Schaub and Toilolo.  Tying up 8m/yr in these 2 guys seems excessive given what they do.

To that end...what do you guys think Toilolo at 4M vs Martellus Bennett at 7M?  Bennett is a similar blocker but you get an actual pass catcher when he's in the game.  It would take away the need for another TE, and let Bennett and Hooper be our two TE set, with Perkins developing.

I'm in favor of midtier signings, but when the difference in cost to get to the next tier up is just the cost of a backup player, it seems worth the jump.

I'm mostly pleased with the offseason, but it's just a question of general allocation of resources.

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1 minute ago, takeitdown said:

To that end...what do you guys think Toilolo at 4M vs Martellus Bennett at 7M?  Bennett is a similar blocker but you get an actual pass catcher when he's in the game.  

No he's not. Bennett is not good at inline blocking

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so you're basically saying either you haven't watched toilolo play, or don't have a good sense of what his value is. There have been several posts already by people who are generally considered here  as cap guru's that have said this was a good contract. Toilolo has played his part and filled his role very well, and what he got paid is pretty much right in line with his value

 

bennett on the other hand, (either of the current bennett brothers currently in the NFL) is pretty much a cancer type player that I wouldn't want here, IMO GB over paid

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13 minutes ago, papachaz said:

so you're basically saying either you haven't watched toilolo play, or don't have a good sense of what his value is. There have been several posts already by people who are generally considered here  as cap guru's that have said this was a good contract. Toilolo has played his part and filled his role very well, and what he got paid is pretty much right in line with his value

 

bennett on the other hand, (either of the current bennett brothers currently in the NFL) is pretty much a cancer type player that I wouldn't want here, IMO GB over paid

No, I'm actually very familiar with Toilolo.  Toilolo is a player who blocks well, and only catches "schemed" balls when he's wide open.  He's not a good route runner, and can't catch contested balls, and is thus a very one dimensional Tight End...one step above just kicking another OT out to block.

While I don't know Bennett's personality profile (and you may be right) he is a radically better pass catcher than Toilolo and gives more versatility.

Hopefully Toilolo will come around and learn how to catch in traffic, but you don't pay for what you hope someone is, you pay for what they are.

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7 minutes ago, takeitdown said:

No, I'm actually very familiar with Toilolo.  Toilolo is a player who blocks well, and only catches "schemed" balls when he's wide open.  He's not a good route runner, and can't catch contested balls, and is thus a very one dimensional Tight End...one step above just kicking another OT out to block.

While I don't know Bennett's personality profile (and you may be right) he is a radically better pass catcher than Toilolo and gives more versatility.

Hopefully Toilolo will come around and learn how to catch in traffic, but you don't pay for what you hope someone is, you pay for what they are.

I do agree with your view on his ability to catch. He has come a ways with that from his first year or two, no doubt about. I do think though that the contract he got, he earned. If he was a better pass catcher, yeah he would have earned more, but the contract total is really very much in line for him playing his 'role' as well as he played it. I don't really think they expect him to be a top notch pass catcher in the role he plays here, and thus wasn't paid for what they 'hope he becomes' at all

 

Are you thinking he's getting 4 million a year? from what I've read, I do believe it's in the 'Falcons salary cap' thread, his cap hit next year is something like 1.2M, and the wording is set up that he can be cut any time after next year with a minimal 'dead money' hit....at least that's what I understood if from what I've read

 

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Hooper is the future, no need to compare a backup blocking TE to a feature TE. The extra 4M+ Bennett got may have prevented us from bringing in Poe, which was a much bigger need.

We had the 8th best offense in NFL history with the TE group we have on roster.

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Bennett is 4 years older (will be 30 this year) and probably only has 2-3 more really productive seasons left. We didn't need him because we already have a pass catcher in Hooper... Plus if they run out the 3 TE sets this year, Lolo is much more valuable as the guy lined up tight 

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7 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

Hooper is the future, no need to compare a backup blocking TE to a feature TE. The extra 4M+ Bennett got may have prevented us from bringing in Poe, which was a much bigger need.

We had the 8th best offense in NFL history with the TE group we have on roster.

We had Tamme on roster who is a much better receiver than either.

If we're going to continue to run 2TE sets, or use an H-back and TE, we'll need 2 TE's who can catch.  That means getting another TE in the draft.  Bennett would have taken care of that need.

I'm fine with getting a TE in the draft, I think it's a good one for it.  But you don't go into a season with a 3rd rounder with 300 yards (1/2 of which were schemed) as your only TE threat.  Controlling the middle of the field is a big deal.  I have hope for Hooper, but you draft another guy for some risk mitigation, or you bring someon in in FA who can catch.  I thought we'd do the latter.

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1 minute ago, Butudontseeme™ said:

Bennett is 4 years older (will be 30 this year) and probably only has 2-3 more really productive seasons left. We didn't need him because we already have a pass catcher in Hooper... Plus if they run out the 3 TE sets this year, Lolo is much more valuable as the guy lined up tight 

The age thing is legitimate. 

However, I don't know why people think we only need 1 TE pass catcher.  If that guy gets hurt, then you don't have a TE at all.  And pretty much all powerful offenses have good production from the TE spot...it's an important area.

If we're trying to go toward an offense where anyone on the field can be a threat (the 5 spots) then you want all 3 of your TEs to be able to catch, and at least one of them to be a matchup problem for safeties so people can't shadow Julio too much.

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4 minutes ago, FentayeJones said:

A contract with only $3 million guaranteed is really nothing to fret about IMO.

You're probably right.  Do you have a link back to the contract specifics?

My actual fret is that we don't have a lot of receiving weapons at TE.  And the clearest way to defend this offense is to put a 3rd corner + a safety on Julio, and put your 1st and 2nd corner on Sanu and Gabriel.

It's pretty effective, and works partially because Sanu isn't a deep threat.   It works further because we don't have a deep threat or matchup problem at TE.  Getting a matchup TE really destroys that method of defending the offense, so I expected they'd grab someone.  Right now Julio and Gabriel are the only two you're concerned with.  Throw a TE in that mix...one who can get behind a safety, and you've created a problem for defenses.

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1 minute ago, takeitdown said:

The age thing is legitimate. 

However, I don't know why people think we only need 1 TE pass catcher.  If that guy gets hurt, then you don't have a TE at all.  And pretty much all powerful offenses have good production from the TE spot...it's an important area.

If we're trying to go toward an offense where anyone on the field can be a threat (the 5 spots) then you want all 3 of your TEs to be able to catch, and at least one of them to be a matchup problem for safeties so people can't shadow Julio too much.

I guess it depends on what you think of Josh Perkins. I liked most of what I saw out of him last year and I think the Falcons did too. If you're not sold on him, there are still guys out there that could potentially be upgrades like Gavin Escobar or Larry Donnell that would be a fraction of the price of a Bennett. 

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there were  a lot of contributing factors to Hooper's limited production. To name a few, late getting started because of that dumb pac 12 rule, Played behind Tamme and didn't get the targets that much (though man the ones he got were wow!) then got hurt and missed a few games. Throw on top of that (pun intended) he played hurt after coming back from the injury. 

I personally expect him to have a stellar year, although I DO indeed agree with your 'fretting over not having another legit weapon at TE' for now. I do think there's something with Perkins maybe we're not quite privy to? As for both of those guys, even the GOAT Gonzalez wasn't all that great his first few years either

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I will believe it when I see it turn into production, but apparently the staff thinks Perkins has some real potential as well. Whether or not we draft one should help answer that question I guess.

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51 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

Hooper is the future, no need to compare a backup blocking TE to a feature TE. The extra 4M+ Bennett got may have prevented us from bringing in Poe, which was a much bigger need.

We had the 8th best offense in NFL history with the TE group we have on roster.

This! x2

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28 minutes ago, quickzero said:

Toilolo has developed very well for us; and Matt trusts him obviously. 

Only when he's wide open!

has Toilolo ever made a tough contested catch? 

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, YoungHeezy said:

Martellus Bennett is overrated

Vastly so.

But so is matt schaub. That's the one contract this offseason I thought "WTF are they thinking" on.

Edited by Vandy
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26 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Vastly so.

But so is matt schaub. That's the one contract this offseason I thought "WTF are they thinking" on.

If what happened to Carr ever happened to Ryan, he's not overrated 

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

Only when he's wide open!

has Toilolo ever made a tough contested catch? 

Im pretty sure. At least one; when Tony was here.

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