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9 minutes ago, slimjim said:

So, turns out we are still in the running and really just wanted to take his time through the process. :)

 

I think it's more that the market for him isn't quite what he or his agent thought it would be.

I also think that does indicate that there's some risk to signing him, but I'd still like him here for the right price.  If we do sign him, I believe we'll be rewarded for our patience with a fairly reasonable deal that reflects that risk.

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1 minute ago, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Not sure he would take that deal over mine? Mine takes him to his age 29 season...yours puts him at 30, if he stays....and he only gets $5 million in second year, with the $11 million in the first..total of $16 million...

Im giving him $2 million more in guaranteed money the first two years....

I dont think we get him...but I do think we offered more than 1 year...it just doesnt make sense to me that we only have 1 DT under contract for 2018....and right now, only 2 DTs for 2017....

I say sign the man and make a run at SB 52....we only have two major holes and the 2nd major hole isn't as big of a deal to me being that it's the guard position...I read somewhere that Chester was ranked 31 out of the 32 starting RGs therefore I feel this o line is good enough to **** near bring in any guard and still be a top 3 or top 5 best offensive line in the league barring no injuries.

FS position isn't really a hole to me like some may suggest. Allen isn't the best but he's a solid starter . As far as defense goes as a hole I believe we need DT more than DE and LB. At DE I like clayborn & reed rotating and playing on the other side of Beasley for passing situations but I think they are really solid if we landed Poe up the middle with Jarret.

poe is just icing on the cake to me and we will really see this defense become top 10. We will get our LB in the draft (watt) and this young good defense will turn great right before our eyes.

 

So with all that said DT in my OPINION is truly our only real hole.

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14 minutes ago, JT said:

I say sign the man and make a run at SB 52....we only have two major holes and the 2nd major hole isn't as big of a deal to me being that it's the guard position...I read somewhere that Chester was ranked 31 out of the 32 starting RGs therefore I feel this o line is good enough to **** near bring in any guard and still be a top 3 or top 5 best offensive line in the league barring no injuries.

FS position isn't really a hole to me like some may suggest. Allen isn't the best but he's a solid starter . As far as defense goes as a hole I believe we need DT more than DE and LB. At DE I like clayborn & reed rotating and playing on the other side of Beasley for passing situations but I think they are really solid if we landed Poe up the middle with Jarret.

poe is just icing on the cake to me and we will really see this defense become top 10. We will get our LB in the draft (watt) and this young good defense will turn great right before our eyes.

 

So with all that said DT in my OPINION is truly our only real hole.

You are 100% correct....which baffles me we havent signed someone...I get being "tight" in the cap figures, but we lost/got rid of 2 DTs from last season (TJax was are run stopper) and we havent replaced them...

This draft is so weak at DT...but we are most likely about to use a 1st or 2nd on a DT that normally would  be in the 3rd or 4th round....

We should be using our picks where there is depth in this draft...DB, DE, and TE...but we arent going to get that chance....unless we make some roster moves no one knows about or expects (ie. Trade Tufant, cut Clayborn or Reed)

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5 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Why do you think that?  What makes you think they're going to panic and take one two rounds early?

Because we arent the only team that will need or want a DT....at some point in the 2nd round, a team will pull the trigger on 1 DT, and teams will worry about depth making it to their next pick....

This always happen in "weak" areas of the draft...Its reverse for deep areas...

All those DTs last year...many were taken in the second round, that a lot of pundits had as 1st rounders...it was a deep class, so teams didnt worry about taking one....

Just wait, the second Adams or Ogunjobi come off the board in the late 1st or second round....another team will follow suit...and guys that were 3rd-4th round grades will be taken by teams that reach, bc they have a need...so late 2nd and early 3rd is where you will see this...

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1 minute ago, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Because we arent the only team that will need or want a DT....at some point in the 2nd round, a team will pull the trigger on 1 DT, and teams will worry about depth making it to their next pick....

This always happen in "weak" areas of the draft...Its reverse for deep areas...

All those DTs last year...many were taken in the second round, that a lot of pundits had as 1st rounders...it was a deep class, so teams didnt worry about taking one....

Just wait, the second Adams or Ogunjobi come off the board in the late 1st or second round....another team will follow suit...and guys that were 3rd-4th round grades will be taken by teams that reach, bc they have a need...so late 2nd and early 3rd is where you will see this...

Or, they realize they can't get the pass rushing DT this year, draft a guy to be a 2 down run stuffer in the 5th round and try again next year. Or promote Mayes from the PS, or resign SJax to a league minimum contract[ don't remember the rules, may not be able to do that] or sign a guy cut from another squad or Hageman becomes a monster or they put Garland on the DLine full time.

Just listed 6 alternatives to drafting a DT early, willing to bet TD/DQ & Co have more. None that involve panicking and grabbing a 4th rounder in the 2nd.

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11 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

I don't like any for the first. But that doesn't mean we will reach for a guy. When has Quinn ever reached for someone??

Keanu Neal....

That doesn mean it was a bad pick, but the next S wasnt selected until #58 and many didnt have Neal ranked as their top S....We got scared with Joseph going off the board before us....

Again, Keanu is a great pick...but could we have traded back...absolutely....or taken him at 52? Probably....

 

Many will say its not "reaching" when its "your guy" but there is an art to selecting guys in specific areas to get value out of your board...

 

Its not my job, so I can sit back and nitpick all day....honestly, this S class is loaded and the next 2 DT classes are weak...so it would be better for us to wait a year to have more choice in S and take a DT...but Falcons are always known for dafting for need now...instead of taking a birds eye view and think long term....Of course players selected, etc. can all play a role...

And as long as our team has a great record, its "bad" to critique right? Well, Im glad we have the players we have, but it stinks we most likely arent selecting a TE or DB in this 2017 class that is ridiculously deep....

Guys are equally as good or better than Keanu....but the DTs are not better than last years...no where near...

 

Flame away....

Edited by Matt_The Iceman_Ryan
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4 minutes ago, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Keanu Neal....

That doesn mean it was a bad pick, but the next S wasnt selected until #58 and many didnt have Neal ranked as their top S....We got scared with Joseph going off the board before us....

Again, Keanu is a great pick...but could we have traded back...absolutely....or taken him at 52? Probably....

 

Many will say its not "reaching" when its "your guy" but there is an art to selecting guys in specific areas to get value out of your board...

 

Its not my job, so I can sit back and nitpick all day....honestly, this S class is loaded and the next 2 DT classes are weak...so it would be better for us to wait a year to have more choice in S and take a DT...but Falcons are always known for dafting for need now...instead of taking a birds eye view and think long term....Of course players selected, etc. can all play a role...

And as long as our team has a great record, its "bad" to critique right? Well, Im glad we have the players we have, but it stinks we most likely arent selecting a TE or DB in this 2017 class that is ridiculously deep....

Guys are equally as good or better than Keanu....but the DTs are not better than last years...no where near...

 

Flame away....

Quit reading after Keanu, just because he wasn't ranked highly by others doesn't mean actual NFL GM's didn't rank him higher. The fact you think you know this just screams ignorance.

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7 minutes ago, falconidae said:

 

Or, they realize they can't get the pass rushing DT this year, draft a guy to be a 2 down run stuffer in the 5th round and try again next year. Or promote Mayes from the PS, or resign SJax to a league minimum contract[ don't remember the rules, may not be able to do that] or sign a guy cut from another squad or Hageman becomes a monster or they put Garland on the DLine full time.

Just listed 6 alternatives to drafting a DT early, willing to bet TD/DQ & Co have more. None that involve panicking and grabbing a 4th rounder in the 2nd.

Those 6 options are all terrible....except for the first one which is where Im hoping we lean....

I like DJ Jones and Stevie T as 2 down, run stopping NT in the 5th round or later....

I actually really like M. Adams, L. Ogunjobi, and V. Taylor...I just dont want to take a DT in the first 2 rounds...and by the time we pick in the 3rd (#95)...I think the best ones will be gone...which is why to my point...

Our 3rd round pick is essentially a 4th rounder...so if we are taking a DT, we will need to take him at 63...

 

Can you honestly think to yourself...the NFL draft is going to happen and only 2 DTs are going to be selected in the first 94 picks???? In a league that needs interior lineman to rush the passer, stop the run, etc?

 

And to have two options of having former OL play DT, or vice versa, who knows as our 3rd best DT? Come on...this is the NFL...we cant do better than that???? Or if we cant..do you honestly expect it to work agst say SEA when they wanna line up beat us down? or CAR after they draft Fournette? COme on...

I just dont see it...

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4 minutes ago, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Keanu Neal....

That doesn mean it was a bad pick, but the next S wasnt selected until #58 and many didnt have Neal ranked as their top S....We got scared with Joseph going off the board before us....

Again, Keanu is a great pick...but could we have traded back...absolutely....or taken him at 52? Probably....

 

Many will say its not "reaching" when its "your guy" but there is an art to selecting guys in specific areas to get value out of your board...

 

Its not my job, so I can sit back and nitpick all day....honestly, this S class is loaded and the next 2 DT classes are weak...so it would be better for us to wait a year to have more choice in S and take a DT...but Falcons are always known for dafting for need now...instead of taking a birds eye view and think long term....Of course players selected, etc. can all play a role...

And as long as our team has a great record, its "bad" to critique right? Well, Im glad we have the players we have, but it stinks we most likely arent selecting a TE or DB in this 2017 class that is ridiculously deep....

Guys are equally as good or better than Keanu....but the DTs are not better than last years...no where near...

 

Flame away....

 No Neal  wouldn't have been around , just because the Kipers of the world thought he was a second rounder doesn't mean the GMs of the NFL thought so. Lots of stories afterwards that other teams would have drafted Neal too.

And you can't possibly know how good the DTackles are in the this draft, after the first 2 or 3. You just don't have the time and resources to know. If you did, you'd be working for a team, not panicking about filling a roster spot 2 months before the draft starts.

 

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5 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Quit reading after Keanu, just because he wasn't ranked highly by others doesn't mean actual NFL GM's didn't rank him higher. The fact you think you know this just screams ignorance.

Several points...historical, factual evidence shows us that at least 1 team didnt have him as their top rated S..that would be OAK...

Do you have evidence of all these other teams? If not, you must be spewing ignorance?

My insight and knowledge lets me hypothesize that it was probably a mix...but that teams probably didnt see an S having a "1st round grade" considering the fact I just pointed out which was that another S wasnt taken until 58....which means about 24 NFL teams didnt have a 1st roundor 2nd round grade on any other S....

Everything I read throughout the entire process had Neal, Joseph, Bell, Thompson, Davis, Byard all with grades fairly close to one another...I stand by that I think Neal was a "reach" based on the value at the posititon, depth, and other teams grades...

BUt to your next point, it only takes one team to want him and then you lost out on a guy you liked, so guess what you do...you take the guy you like, even if its a reach....

Not ignorance...Im just fine speaking ciritques and truth in a situation....Neal is a great palyer for us, and Im glad the Falcons selected him, but I can also have the opinion that it was a reach...and in this case, a good reach....

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2 minutes ago, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Several points...historical, factual evidence shows us that at least 1 team didnt have him as their top rated S..that would be OAK...

Do you have evidence of all these other teams? If not, you must be spewing ignorance?

My insight and knowledge lets me hypothesize that it was probably a mix...but that teams probably didnt see an S having a "1st round grade" considering the fact I just pointed out which was that another S wasnt taken until 58....which means about 24 NFL teams didnt have a 1st roundor 2nd round grade on any other S....

Everything I read throughout the entire process had Neal, Joseph, Bell, Thompson, Davis, Byard all with grades fairly close to one another...I stand by that I think Neal was a "reach" based on the value at the posititon, depth, and other teams grades...

BUt to your next point, it only takes one team to want him and then you lost out on a guy you liked, so guess what you do...you take the guy you like, even if its a reach....

Not ignorance...Im just fine speaking ciritques and truth in a situation....Neal is a great palyer for us, and Im glad the Falcons selected him, but I can also have the opinion that it was a reach...and in this case, a good reach....

You claim I don't have evidence but neither do you? It's incredible.. 

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What's going on with Giants, Johnathan Hankins and the DT market?

Hankins has been among those left hanging. It’s a surprise given that one defensive line coach in the market for a tackle prior to free agency said he was impressed with Hankins’ tape. In fact, he thought it was better than Poe’s this past season. Poe is a two-time Pro Bowl selection.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/51115/whats-going-on-with-the-giants-johnathan-hankins-and-the-defensive-tackle-market

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6 minutes ago, falconidae said:

 No Neal  wouldn't have been around , just because the Kipers of the world thought he was a second rounder doesn't mean the GMs of the NFL thought so. Lots of stories afterwards that other teams would have drafted Neal too.

And you can't possibly know how good the DTackles are in the this draft, after the first 2 or 3. You just don't have the time and resources to know. If you did, you'd be working for a team, not panicking about filling a roster spot 2 months before the draft starts.

 

Yes, it only takes 1 team...but I do think at 17, Neal was a "good reach"...and if we couldnt trade back some, then thats what you do....

 

From an analytics standpoint, I actually do have the resources and time...love running stats...film, I can watch 2-3 game films on each player to see certain aspects of their game, do I have interview info? NO, but at this point in the NFL...athleticism is a huge part...and thats easy to figure out.

This DT draft is "weak" from an athletic standpoint based on the need at the position for us...

That is without some data from Watkins, Wormley, and Hester...but still...there are 2 DTs right now that have Day 2 or better grades...with maybe 5 DTs having 4th round or better grades in my book...

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3 minutes ago, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Those 6 options are all terrible....except for the first one which is where Im hoping we lean....

I like DJ Jones and Stevie T as 2 down, run stopping NT in the 5th round or later....

I actually really like M. Adams, L. Ogunjobi, and V. Taylor...I just dont want to take a DT in the first 2 rounds...and by the time we pick in the 3rd (#95)...I think the best ones will be gone...which is why to my point...

Our 3rd round pick is essentially a 4th rounder...so if we are taking a DT, we will need to take him at 63...

 

Can you honestly think to yourself...the NFL draft is going to happen and only 2 DTs are going to be selected in the first 94 picks???? In a league that needs interior lineman to rush the passer, stop the run, etc?

 

And to have two options of having former OL play DT, or vice versa, who knows as our 3rd best DT? Come on...this is the NFL...we cant do better than that???? Or if we cant..do you honestly expect it to work agst say SEA when they wanna line up beat us down? or CAR after they draft Fournette? COme on...

I just dont see it...

You not seeing it  and it not  being a good idea are two way different things.  You have no idea how good Mayes is, for example, or more importantly, how good the Falcons KNOW he is. He may be the reason they haven't signed anyone. He may be the perfect stop gap NT for a year.

You're acting like it's a forgone conclusion that the Falcons are going to wet themselves  and carry a urine soaked card up to the podium for a DT in the 1st round, it's just not so.

You seem to think there are only 2-3 worthy DTs in the draft and you just don't know that. If you've done more that watch a few minutes of highlights and read some draft grades, I'd be really surprised. Whatever you done, the Falcons have put thousands of more man hours into studying the players than you have. It's fun to talk about, but nobody on this board has a real clue after the top 20-30 prospects.

 

But, hey, knock yourself out, you want to panic about a position that will be filled before TC, go for it.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Several points...historical, factual evidence shows us that at least 1 team didnt have him as their top rated S..that would be OAK...

Do you have evidence of all these other teams? If not, you must be spewing ignorance?

My insight and knowledge lets me hypothesize that it was probably a mix...but that teams probably didnt see an S having a "1st round grade" considering the fact I just pointed out which was that another S wasnt taken until 58....which means about 24 NFL teams didnt have a 1st roundor 2nd round grade on any other S....

 

 

It was reported by, I believe, Mike Mayock that both Pittsburgh and the Jets planned to select Neal if he fell to them in Rd 1. And it shows in the guys they ended up selecting. 

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