Jump to content

Falcons potential 1st round pick


atlbaby
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, AndySG said:

"Scouting" is such a volatile thing. A month ago Willis was a 3rd rounder with questions about his athleticism and whether he would ever be a starter. Now he's a 1st round pick!

This isn't a shot at you either, OP. Just shows how important the combine is. 

Still, I'd say with DE depth this draft he isn't likely to go above a 2nd rounder at best. So, the combine might have helped his pick placement an entire round; big for his rookie contract but not like suddenly at top-30 board talent only from the combine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 128
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

1 minute ago, Falcan Moore said:

I think you're all being ridiculous and Willis would be an atrocious first round pick, but eh. Whatever. Dude is definitely a workout warrior in my eyes. We'll see.

Ridiculous how? Please explain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You might consider him in the second round.

Whether or not he is above other players potentially at 31 is not only a question of taking a DE or not, but also a matter of "DQ" type of DL.

Is he really suddenly a clear favorite compared to other DEs that could fall to the end of round 1? Feels like a reach for a first rounder. He certainly has the effort and measures good, but is it truly the "off the spot" explosion on tape Dan preaches? Is it correctable with improved technique? His first step makes or breaks him compared to other DE's quality of first steps; not just effort or motor. Otherwise, you could call him more of a Brooks Reed/Upshaw type. Is that worth a first rounder?

I'm not qualified to judge that, tbf.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess my issue is that it feels like people are trying to find specific tape that fits his numbers instead of seeing if the numbers confirm how he looked beforehand. 

I still watch him and see inflated numbers due to a very long stride. I see a wildly inconsistent first step where he's pretty often even the last guy off the line, I see a way stiffer midsection than his 3C would suggest where he looks awkward dropping into coverage or making changes in direction. I see someone who looks smooth and Herculean in gym shorts but awkward by comparison on the field.

But hey, Quinn believes in tape too. I seriously doubt he'll pick him. But if he does we'll all go in hoping for the best, myself included...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, joe_fishback said:

I say get Tim Williams or O.J. Howard in that order if their available at 31. If not, try to trade back first or take bpa second.

I'm fine with this approach if we don't have a clear cut pick at 31 for a position like DE or OG and would be reaching if we chose them. I give a catch, though, that we sign a veteran DT / draft OL with our first 2-3 picks.

(or at least Wes is CERTAIN to be a projected upgrade over Chester and you can draft OL later or get a veteran journeyman as a 6th lineman/I don't see Garland playing OT in emergency)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, slimjim said:

I'm fine with this approach if we don't have a clear cut pick at 31 for a position like DE or OG and would be reaching if we chose them. I give a catch, though, that we sign a veteran DT / draft OL with our first 2-3 picks.

(or at least Wes is CERTAIN to be a projected upgrade over Chester and you can draft OL later or get a veteran journeyman as a 6th lineman/don't see Garland playing OT)

Which DE has a quicker first step than Tim Williams in this years draft? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Falcan Moore said:

I guess my issue is that it feels like people are trying to find specific tape that fits his numbers instead of seeing if the numbers confirm how he looked beforehand. 

I still watch him and see inflated numbers due to a very long stride. I see a wildly inconsistent first step where he's pretty often even the last guy off the line, I see a way stiffer midsection than his 3C would suggest where he looks awkward dropping into coverage or making changes in direction. I see someone who looks smooth and Herculean in gym shorts but awkward by comparison on the field.

But hey, Quinn believes in tape too. I seriously doubt he'll pick him. But if he does we'll all go in hoping for the best, myself included...

I think if you're looking for him just being bendy and fast like his combine indicates you'll be disappointed. I think he has a solid game with a lot of tools, power rush, nice hand technique, and he can show some speed but I don't think that's his forte. His forte is power and explosiveness, not necessarily off the snap, but in terms of the first initial contact. 

I agree to an extent, his number stats wise are a little misleading due to the BIG 12, but in terms of a total DE he's still good. I'm not pounding the table for him at 31, I like Daeshon Hall over him as well as a few others, but I wouldn't be disappointed if we got him in a trade back. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Ridiculous how? Please explain.

 

8 minutes ago, gtech1 said:

What do you base this on?  

A lot of the same people praising him were calling him stiff beforehand and were totally uninterested. The same people who laugh at PFF for ranking Deion Jones and Keanu Neal so poorly are using their opinion of Willis to prop him up. The same people who advise against judging a prospect solely on highlights are...well, pretty much in love with the highlights they're posting of him, maybe I'm just incredulous but I don't see how anyone could fall in love with what he's doing on a consistent basis. 

Like yeah, you go for traits, but there are athletic prospects this draft that flash more than traits. Scouting is all opinions, not trying to say that anyone's opinion is wrong necessarily, but I'm having a reeeaaally hard time understanding all the changes of heart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^You still haven't answered my question.  You're criticizing people for changing their minds on him, but what's wrong with that?  I'm asking why YOU don't like him as a prospect.  One of the best combines ever PLUS great production.  What's not to like?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

I think if you're looking for him just being bendy and fast like his combine indicates you'll be disappointed. I think he has a solid game with a lot of tools, power rush, nice hand technique, and he can show some speed but I don't think that's his forte. His forte is power and explosiveness, not necessarily off the snap, but in terms of the first initial contact. 

I agree to an extent, his number stats wise are a little misleading due to the BIG 12, but in terms of a total DE he's still good. I'm not pounding the table for him at 31, I like Daeshon Hall over him as well as a few others, but I wouldn't be disappointed if we got him in a trade back. 

By numbers being misleading I more meant his combine, but yeah, this is a much fairer take. I get what you're saying. 

In edge guys, I look for speed, bend, fluidity, and consistency in technique above all else. Power is nice and all, but unless you're just absurd it won't get you far in the NFL. He just checks...very few boxes for me. Difference in opinion I guess. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, gtech1 said:

^You still haven't answered my question.  You're criticizing people for changing their minds on him, but what's wrong with that?  I'm asking why YOU don't like him as a prospect.  One of the best combines ever PLUS great production.  What's not to like?

He's saying he's not very bendy and isn't as quick or twitchy on film as his combine indicates which I agree. IMO he does flash some quickness but in terms of bending the corner you'd think he'd be more consistent/fluid based off his combine numbers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Falcan Moore said:

 

A lot of the same people praising him were calling him stiff beforehand and were totally uninterested. The same people who laugh at PFF for ranking Deion Jones and Keanu Neal so poorly are using their opinion of Willis to prop him up. The same people who advise against judging a prospect solely on highlights are...well, pretty much in love with the highlights they're posting of him, maybe I'm just incredulous but I don't see how anyone could fall in love with what he's doing on a consistent basis. 

Like yeah, you go for traits, but there are athletic prospects this draft that flash more than traits. Scouting is all opinions, not trying to say that anyone's opinion is wrong necessarily, but I'm having a reeeaaally hard time understanding all the changes of heart.

None of which makes me or anyone else here thinking Willis is a possible good fit for Falcons anymore "ridiculous " than some of the other threads posturing about possible picks (ala TJ Watt) at 31 in here. All potential picks carries with them certain flaws to fall that low in Rd 1.

PFF is trash to me. And I was one the early ones all over Deion jones and Keanu Neal picks for us in here 

Edited by Vandy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, TroyBergeron said:

Over in the draft and free agency department, I just posted a mock with him as my top pick. I've been studying him for a while, and I'm just hoping he is there with our pick. His work ethic is ELITE. Bill Snyder, a HoF coach and the coach of KSU since 1989(minus 3 seasons), said that Willis is the epitome of KSU football. His 10 yard split is unreal, and 0.05 faster than Beasleys comine 10 yard split. This guy has improved his play and numbers dramatically since high school. He may get drafted late first, or early second, but knowing his personality and his athleticism, he will be a top 10 pick in redrafts 3 years from now. I can guarantee you that. He's a gym rat AND a film rat. He admits to spending 5 or so hours at a time watching the top NFL pass rushers. Go look at my mock. I compared his combine numbers with Connor Barwin a, and they are nearly identical, except Willis' is slightly more impressive overall. Hes a feel, and I would kill for a young Connor Barwin without the injury concerns and a longer history and more experience on the gridiron coming into the league. JJ watt is a once in a lifetime talent, and I'm not comparing the two skill set wise, but watt was considered the 4th or 5th(at best) pass rusher in the 2011 draft. I know he went no. 11 overall, but many called it a reach at the time. Willis' path to the draft (and eventual NFL stardom) will be very similar to watt. Imagine a healthy Connor Barwin on this team, only with a higher upside given his experience at the position coming into the league. 

Post your mocks here bro, it's the offseason we all wanna see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

None of which Hardly makes me or anyone else here thinking Willis is a possible good fit for Falcons anymore "ridiculous " than any of the other threads posturing about possible picks at 31 in here. 

PFF is trash to me. And I was one the early ones all over Deion jones and Keanu Neal picks for here 

I think you're taking everything I said as personally applying to you, which is pretty silly when there's over a dozen people who posted in here and the quoted post said "a lot" of people, not everyone. I made it general on purpose. You fall under a couple of the things I said but I don't know why you'd think I was speaking at you directly, it's just a list of qualms I had with people in love with Willis now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, joe_fishback said:

Which DE has a quicker first step than Tim Williams in this years draft? 

Maybe Barnett? He isn't going to be at 31 though. I don't heavily scout myself and rely on most mocks/big boards general analysis. Sometimes this doesn't truly mean "best first step" in the way others would define it. If I were a scouting man though...I'll let resident mock guru's that watch tape give their opinions, but it still boils down to if DQ sees the first step the same way we do (read, technique required in Quinn's defense and can he keeps explosion off the spots DQ asks while maintaining motor/pass rush skills developed in general).

Another thing to consider is that most first year pass rushers from DE; unless they are of the caliber of a Myles Garrett, really won't do much in their first year in the NFL. It's more reasonable to expect a first year player at 31(essentially a 2nd rounder) to perform in a rotation in year 1 without expectations on numbers, but rather acclimating them to NFL caliber OTs and rushing with their fellow DL; let alone their own technique for true 1 on 1s which is everyone's dream. Let's not forget Jamaal Anderson.

EDIT: Didn't know we were comparing apples and oranges. Yeah, a converted LB might get a better first step...if he can become a DE/bulk up enough and keep his overall speed but burst out of stance is something conversion takes time to get elite in caliber. Beasley struggled mightily in year 1 due to the jump to NFL.

Edited by slimjim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TroyBergeron said:

Over in the draft and free agency department, I just posted a mock with him as my top pick. I've been studying him for a while, and I'm just hoping he is there with our pick. His work ethic is ELITE. Bill Snyder, a HoF coach and the coach of KSU since 1989(minus 3 seasons), said that Willis is the epitome of KSU football. His 10 yard split is unreal, and 0.05 faster than Beasleys comine 10 yard split. This guy has improved his play and numbers dramatically since high school. He may get drafted late first, or early second, but knowing his personality and his athleticism, he will be a top 10 pick in redrafts 3 years from now. I can guarantee you that. He's a gym rat AND a film rat. He admits to spending 5 or so hours at a time watching the top NFL pass rushers. Go look at my mock. I compared his combine numbers with Connor Barwin a, and they are nearly identical, except Willis' is slightly more impressive overall. Hes a feel, and I would kill for a young Connor Barwin without the injury concerns and a longer history and more experience on the gridiron coming into the league. JJ watt is a once in a lifetime talent, and I'm not comparing the two skill set wise, but watt was considered the 4th or 5th(at best) pass rusher in the 2011 draft. I know he went no. 11 overall, but many called it a reach at the time. Willis' path to the draft (and eventual NFL stardom) will be very similar to watt. Imagine a healthy Connor Barwin on this team, only with a higher upside given his experience at the position coming into the league. 

One of the best new posters on the board. Rapidly becoming a favorite of mine to read. Welome aboard:tiphat::tiphat:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Falcan Moore said:

I think you're taking everything I said as personally applying to you, which is pretty silly when there's over a dozen people who posted in here and the quoted post said "a lot" of people, not everyone. I made it general on purpose. You fall under a couple of the things I said but I don't know why you'd think I was speaking at you directly, it's just a list of qualms I had with people in love with Willis now.

Nope,  I took your post as a little over-the-top silly on its surface no matter who it was "applying to", which is cool as it is, we all have our differing opinions. But I wasn't gonna let it go without a reponse, as I'm sure you wouldn't either if myself or another poster posted accordingly.  

So who do you prefer at 31 then? I personally lean towards Williams, but would be more than fine with Willis.

Edited by Vandy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, uga_falcons_braves said:

If he played at Bama, Clemson or FSU, he would be a 1st rounder. Kid looks good.

I think the reason he has been under the radar is because the Big XII isn't  really known for it's  stout defenses, like the the schools you mentioned or several others. And the fact that they are not seen as a powerhouse. Not that those factors determine if a player will be successful in the NFL, there are so many players, HOF players, from smaller schools, but it does effect their national exposure. 

I didn't  know a whole lot about him, but since this post I have watched some tape and with his numbers at combine he looks really good. Still don't know enough  to say if he is good for 1st round, but he does seem to have it all!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TroyBergeron said:

Over in the draft and free agency department, I just posted a mock with him as my top pick. I've been studying him for a while, and I'm just hoping he is there with our pick. His work ethic is ELITE. Bill Snyder, a HoF coach and the coach of KSU since 1989(minus 3 seasons), said that Willis is the epitome of KSU football. His 10 yard split is unreal, and 0.05 faster than Beasleys comine 10 yard split. This guy has improved his play and numbers dramatically since high school. He may get drafted late first, or early second, but knowing his personality and his athleticism, he will be a top 10 pick in redrafts 3 years from now. I can guarantee you that. He's a gym rat AND a film rat. He admits to spending 5 or so hours at a time watching the top NFL pass rushers. Go look at my mock. I compared his combine numbers with Connor Barwin a, and they are nearly identical, except Willis' is slightly more impressive overall. Hes a feel, and I would kill for a young Connor Barwin without the injury concerns and a longer history and more experience on the gridiron coming into the league. JJ watt is a once in a lifetime talent, and I'm not comparing the two skill set wise, but watt was considered the 4th or 5th(at best) pass rusher in the 2011 draft. I know he went no. 11 overall, but many called it a reach at the time. Willis' path to the draft (and eventual NFL stardom) will be very similar to watt. Imagine a healthy Connor Barwin on this team, only with a higher upside given his experience at the position coming into the league. 

Great post. This kid may be the gold nugget of the 1st if all of your background info is solid. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could get jiggy with this. He was absolutely one of the guys I targeted after his combine as a potential second or third round draft choice. 

We are so fortunate that this draft is absolutely loaded with amazing talent that we improve no matter which way we decide to draft. And that's not to mention the guys that may slide due to potential off-field issues, real or otherwise. 

Very exciting time to be a Falcons fan right now. Are you ready for some football? :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...