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Colin_Pernett

My Thoughts on Derek Barnett

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I am going to start posting some of my thoughts while watching some prospects I think could be in play for the Falcons. Before watching his games in depth I did not know what to think of him. His 40 time is far too slow, but he was sick at the combine. His 3 cone time was fantastic though putting him in the 88th percentile for edge rushers in the league, and I know this has been a very important drill to Dimitroff. 

      The first game I watched of him was his last game, and I have to say he impressed me more than I thought he would. I had read in the past that his production came from timing up the snap, and that is part of it. However a lot of the time he was not the first guy off the ball and he still managed to beat both the right and left tackle for Nebraska pretty consistently. This is both a positive and a negative because he is not an overly explosive athlete, as is evident by his testing scores, but his hand usage is far more polished than most pass rushers that come out of college. He is not afraid to bullrush the guy in front of him, and he does this very well, but his ability to begin a bull rush and then use his hands to pull the offensive tackle as he pushes against his bull rush using the tackle's forward momentum against him to knock him off balance is very impressive.

      His ability to bend the edge was shockingly impressive to me. I did not expect him to be nearly as flexible in his hips as he is because of how he is built. This is clearly one of the most important abilities of a pass rusher and he definitely has it. He consistently gives max effort and does not quit if his initial pass rush move fails. He went into coverage for a few plays and actually moved pretty well and even made a very nice play on a pass thrown to a running back behind the line of scrimmage.

      If he showed one weakness in this game, other than limited explosiveness, it was over pursuit of the quarterback causing him to be taken out of the play. On one occasion a big play was allowed on an end around because he went full tilt into the backfield,l losing contain and the receiver took advantage for a nice gain. Overall this game was incredible, and he was impactful on almost every snap.

 

     Against UGA Barnett played extremely well. What impressed me the most was the little things he did because of his knowledge of the game. On multiple occasions he hit the pulling guard before he got outside the tackle box on an outside run allowing a linebacker, the guy the guard would have gotten if path was not affected, to go free to make a play at or behind the line of scrimmage. He also kept contain really well a few times forcing the running back to reverse field resulting in negative or very few yards. One play he mirrored the running back cutting back and forth again forcing the running back to reverse all the way around for what could have been a huge loss if not for a teammates missed tackle.

     He was very explosive at times in this game, but only one time when I was really wowed by it was a play late in the game where he whipped by the right tackle in a play that made him look like a top 5 prospect. His bend continues to impress me, but many times he does it too late when he is has passed the QB. A few times he was able to turn the corner very well against both the left and right tackle and these SEC lineman were completely helpless against him.

    There were a few times he showed a great counter moves. Sometimes they were very subtle as he would take a small inside step forcing the Tackle to lean in side and he would just blow by him on the outside seamlessly (again those agility drills are showing up on tape). One time he tried a spin move and it looked like early season Brooks Reed where it was slow and got him nowhere. He got a QB hit on this play but only because the defensive tackle ran into the guy blocking him so he could go free. 

      One thing I really noticed is he was not even affected by blocks by the tight end or running back. He imposed his will on them and they seemed to bounce off barely effecting his path to the QB. The one time UGA tried to use both of them to block him he got a strip sack for a touchdown.

     Overall very good game by him and Tennessee would have absolutely lost without him. If they had a linebacker as fast as Deion Jones he would have caused a lot of huge losses when the running back was forced to change his path.

 

     It is very hard to evaluate a pass rusher against a team that ran as much inside as Alabama did in this game. He was pretty good against Cam Robinson, but almost every throw was too quick for him to make a real impact. He did get a very nice sack when Hurts actually had to hold onto the ball for more than a couple seconds. His lack of speed really showed up when Bama ran end arounds, and other pass rushers in this draft might have been able to make a play where he simply could not. Overall this game did not have anything that changed my opinion of him either way. It is just hard to evaluate edge players against this team.

       

       Overall I think he's can be a good NFL player but probably not a great one. I would not feel comfortable taking this guy in the top 20 because I feel like he will never be top dog on his team. However I think he's a great fit in Atlanta as a rotational Leo because he would be able to just put his talents to good use rather than try to be he answer for a mediocre team. He's good enough in the run game and plays with enough power to be excellent when used with Beasley. His knowledge of what the offense is doing would suit is vey well too because, with the speed on this defense, him interrupting or slowing down blockers from getting to the second level in the run game could let our speedsters run free and make plays. In the pass game he is quick and flexible enough to do damage in the NFL, but not explosive enough to be as productive as he was in college. I think at best he becomes a 10 sacks a season guy but never much more than that, and that's as good as you could really hope for at 31. Of course I said that about Bosa too and boy was I wrong.

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I've been very critical of Barnett myself, but that was moreso when he was considered a consensus top 5 player, since I didn't think he was anywhere near that. At the bottom of the first round? Much less terrible.

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I like him a lot.  Just don't see any way he falls to us.  I project Barnett to go between 8-25.   If he falls into the 20's, you go get him.

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My biggest takeaway from watching Barnett over the year is that he's clutch as ****. Tennessee pulled a lot of games outta their behinds this year and he was a big part of it with clutch sacks and forced fumbles. He does jump snaps to make up for his lack of explosiveness but his bend is legit good. I think he'll be a nice complimentary pass rusher for a long time but never an alpha (luckily for us, Beasley can be the alpha). 

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51 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I like him a lot.  Just don't see any way he falls to us.  I project Barnett to go between 8-25.   If he falls into the 20's, you go get him.

That 4.88 at 250 could kill him though. I think so far that 8 is too high because he truly lacks elite explosiveness that makes an elite edge rusher, but he is good value in the 20s. Before the combine I would have said no way he falls to us but now I could definitely see Garrett, Lawson, Harris. McKinley, Thomas, Charlton, and even TJ Watt go before him.

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Get it in your head that Barnett sucks because I'd put money on him being in black & gold in the 2017 season.

also just wanna say, he's most likely going to improve his numbers at his pro day. His combine numbers (which were already quite nice) were him with the flu.

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1 hour ago, Kayoh said:

Get it in your head that Barnett sucks because I'd put money on him being in black & gold in the 2017 season.

also just wanna say, he's most likely going to improve his numbers at his pro day. His combine numbers (which were already quite nice) were him with the flu.

So your take is Barnett will be good NFL passrusher but he sucks because he will be a Saint?

I can live with that.

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9 hours ago, Colin_Pernett said:

That 4.88 at 250 could kill him though. I think so far that 8 is too high because he truly lacks elite explosiveness that makes an elite edge rusher, but he is good value in the 20s. Before the combine I would have said no way he falls to us but now I could definitely see Garrett, Lawson, Harris. McKinley, Thomas, Charlton, and even TJ Watt go before him.

Dude, teams don't care about the 40 for rush ends unless you plan on playing them in coverage equally. Basically, to a certain degree maybe the Steelers cared because of how they use Bud Dupree. We only care about those first 10 yards, not the whole 40.  Some cats start off slow and build speed, others maintain the same speed to the end, some start off fast and throttle down to a specific constant speed. We want the third type, which has nothing to do with the whole 40.

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6 hours ago, g-dawg said:

So your take is Barnett will be good NFL passrusher but he sucks because he will be a Saint?

I can live with that.

I really like Barnett but we're all gonna need to learn how to hate him. lol

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24 minutes ago, Kayoh said:

I really like Barnett but we're all gonna need to learn how to hate him. lol

give me your take on T.J. Watt.

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Just now, g-dawg said:

give me your take on T.J. Watt.

I want him at 31. He's my favorite edge prospect in this class behind Garrett.

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Just now, Kayoh said:

I want him at 31. He's my favorite edge prospect in this class behind Garrett.

yeah, I want him as well.   He's a beast and he is only gets better - dominant player and will probably naturally put on another 10-15 lbs of muscle.   Has that quickness and instincts that you cannot teach - I know some will crap on this pick because of being influenced because of his brother - of course that is part of it but when you watch the tape - the eye in the sky don't lie.

I want TJ or Forrest Lamp at #31.

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1 minute ago, g-dawg said:

yeah, I want him as well.   He's a beast and he is only gets better - dominant player and will probably naturally put on another 10-15 lbs of muscle.   Has that quickness and instincts that you cannot teach - I know some will crap on this pick because of being influenced because of his brother - of course that is part of it but when you watch the tape - the eye in the sky don't lie.

I want TJ or Forrest Lamp at #31.

I wouldn't mind Lamp but I feel like it's much less likely that he's available than T.J.

Also the reason I want him has nothing to do with his brother. He passes every single one of my LEO filters. He's the perfect player to play LEO for us. The only other guy in this class who passes every filter is Daeshon Hall, who I also want, but to play 5 tech. I just imagine a NASCAR package of Beasley-Hall-Clayborn-Watt and it gets me all kinds of excited.

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1 minute ago, Kayoh said:

I wouldn't mind Lamp but I feel like it's much less likely that he's available than T.J.

Also the reason I want him has nothing to do with his brother. He passes every single one of my LEO filters. He's the perfect player to play LEO for us. The only other guy in this class who passes every filter is Daeshon Hall, who I also want, but to play 5 tech. I just imagine a NASCAR package of Beasley-Hall-Clayborn-Watt and it gets me all kinds of excited.

yeah, I totally get you believe in your system - I do - to a degree but just not 100% on sabremetrics - its a factor.  Now, when you can use the sabre and then look at the character, game tape and know what makes a player tick - then you have something.

I think TJ has it all - gotta have faith in the medical as he has had some injuries but nothing I have seen scares me off him.

I see the Packers as the big threat to take TJ Watt in front of us but if he slides by them, I think TJ will make it to #31.   One thing for certain, teams will be moving for him if he slips to Day#2.

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Didn't impress me enough to draft him, simply because he wasn't involved in most plays. Just didn't see it.

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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:44 PM, Kayoh said:

I want him at 31. He's my favorite edge prospect in this class behind Garrett.

Give me Jordan Willis over TJ Watt.

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1 minute ago, Scott Carasik said:

Give me Jordan Willis over TJ Watt.

I think Willis is going to be much better in a 3-4. He's Connor Barwin and over his career Barwin has always been pretty good as a 3-4 OLB, but pretty average as a 4-3 DE.

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8 minutes ago, Kayoh said:

I think Willis is going to be much better in a 3-4. He's Connor Barwin and over his career Barwin has always been pretty good as a 3-4 OLB, but pretty average as a 4-3 DE.

Except he's never played standing in his life... Barwin played in a 3-4 in college. Willis timed like Demarcus Ware and could rush effectively from the left. Maybe it's about time we have Vic move back to the right side.

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1 minute ago, Scott Carasik said:

Except he's never played standing in his life... Barwin played in a 3-4 in college. Willis timed like Demarcus Ware and could rush effectively from the left. Maybe it's about time we have Vic move back to the right side.

but vic is better from the left so that makes no sense, lol

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2 minutes ago, Kayoh said:

but vic is better from the left so that makes no sense, lol

Vic in college was way better from the right. So it does make some sense. Willis can rush from both sides. Why not have both guys able to attack from both sides? It takes some guys years to be able to hit from both sides.

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Just now, Scott Carasik said:

Vic in college was way better from the right. So it does make some sense. Willis can rush from both sides. Why not have both guys able to attack from both sides? It takes some guys years to be able to hit from both sides.

I mean it could have just been that he was a rookie or the shoulder thing but he seems a lot better on the left in the NFL than he was on the right. I've just kind of settled into the idea of drafting a pure RDE/LEO to pair with Vic on the opposite side.

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Just now, Kayoh said:

I mean it could have just been that he was a rookie or the shoulder thing but he seems a lot better on the left in the NFL than he was on the right. I've just kind of settled into the idea of drafting a pure RDE/LEO to pair with Vic on the opposite side.

Fair enough. I think Willis fares better on the right side in the pros than Vic did because of his Ware-like profile. And in this scheme, he could be dangerous with Quinn's tutelage.

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2 hours ago, Scott Carasik said:

Fair enough. I think Willis fares better on the right side in the pros than Vic did because of his Ware-like profile. And in this scheme, he could be dangerous with Quinn's tutelage.

T.J. Watt has a closer profile to Ware than Willis tbf

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