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atlbaby

Dan Quinn type of defensive lineman

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Posted (edited)

Before I get into the main reason for the post I would like to share this.

We had the best offense in the league last season even with Chester given up the most pressure, so whoever we bring in or retain, I'm confident we will still have a dominant offense.

Ok now back to the main topic. I posted this before and would like to do it again to refresh the memories of some.

Quote

Quinn when asked about Jonathan Massaquoi and Kroy Biermann: "The movement, the first thing when you're talking about pass rush, you're talking about get-off. That's one of the things when you're evaluating the guys, 'OK, let's look at the get-off and does he have the quickness to get off the spot?' As a rusher, can you get the tackle off the spot to get them to move. So I really think you look for that speed and quickness first. I try to look at as many of the guys on the roster as I could to see what unique stuff they have. Then our job is to pull that out of them and see what they can do. It's a big topic, and one that's right at the forefront of our discussions."

Quinn on how he can utilize Tyson Jackson and Paul Soliai: "We've always liked the big guys for some of the first- and second-down stuff. When teams want to get tough and play hardball, we like to do that. There's other games when you're playing three- and four-receiver sets, so we'll be equipped to play that. That versatility on defense is important, and one of the things you'll hear me talk about through the years as we're going through it: Whatever a team wants to play, we'll be able to do that. If they want to get big, we'll get big. If they want to play fast, we'll have the versatility to do that. That's why I like all the unique players big guys, fast guys, long guys, all the good qualities that a guy has. ... You need that (size), too. That's a part of it, too, when you play teams that, like I said, want to get big and try to play a hardball running game. You better have enough big guys or it's going to be hard on you."

The main reason the Seahawks had the #1 defense back to back years under the guidance of Quinn was because his unit was able to stuff the run and make it difficult to convert 1st downs because of the down and distance.

Quote

"Quinn was a holdover from Jim L. Mora's staff when Pete Carroll started in Seattle in 2010, and the fact that Carroll retained him for his staff says a lot to me about his talent as a coach. One of the hallmarks of Quinn's first year as DC in Seattle was that he moved DT Red Bryant from the inside, where he was foundering, out to defensive end on the strong side, and Bryant's presence on the outside there really galvanized the run defense, allowing Carroll to accomplish (relatively) his first goal on defense, which is stuffing the run and making an offense one-dimensional.

The "Quinn" defense is a 4-3 under front seven with a three-deep secondary and a movable chess piece in the strong safety. Typically, the strong safety comes down into the box and for the most part "stacks the box" with eight defenders. This is to achieve the first goal of stopping the run on base downs. His scheme can switch between that "under" front to an "over" front, and at times they've used 3-man fronts which we called "Bear" fronts. Quinn's shown that he's adaptable to the personnel they have, and has experience running both 3- and 4-man fronts both in Seattle and at Florida.

I'd characterize Quinn's defenses as aggressive and attacking. After stopping the run, the next goal is to affect the quarterback, whether that's from a solid pass rush, excellent coverage downfield, or both. He's more aggressive with blitzing than Gus Bradley was here in Seattle. He does more with personnel groups than Bradley did. Michael Bennett was a key cog in Quinn's scheme, moving from the outside on base downs to the inside on nickel downs. Turnovers are huge. Don't get beat deep. Swarm to the football. Maximum effort on every snap. Speed closing to the ball, fundamental tackling.

As I look at the potential signings or draftees, I looked back on the numbers and players Quinn had on the D-line from 2013 until now.

In the 2013-2014 Super Bowl winning season Quinn carried 10 defensive lineman: (Red Bryant, Brandon Mebane, Tony McDaniel, Chris Clemons, Michael Bennett, Jordan Hill, Clinton McDonald, Cliff Avril, Bruce Irvin, Benson Mayowa)

In the 2014-2015 season Quinn carried 9 defensive lineman or 10 with Bruce Irvin playing DE in nickel: (Michael Bennett, Brandon Mebane, Tony McDaniel, Cliff Avril, Greg Scruggs, Kevin Williams, Jordan Hill, O'Brien Schofield, Cassius Marsh, *Bruce Irvin)

In the 2015-2016 season Quinn carried 9 defensive lineman or 10 with Schofield playing DE in nickel: (Tyson Jackson, Paul Soliai, Ra'shede Hageman, Vic Beasley, Adrian Clayborn, Grady Jarrett, Jonathan Babineaux, Malliciah Goodman, Kroy Biermann, * O'Brien Schofield)

In the 2016-2017 season Quinn carried 9 defensive lineman or 10 with Beasley playing DE in nickel: (Tyson Jackson, Grady Jarrett, Jonathan Babineaux, Brooks Reed, Adrian Clayborn, Dwight Freeney, Derrick Shelby, Courtney Upshaw, Ra'shede Hageman, * Vic Beasley)

 

So with 10 lineman being the norm with SLB including I see the following players being locks: Grady Jarrett, Vic Beasley, Jack Crawford, Courtney Upshaw, Adrian Clayborn, Derrick Shelby, Ra'shede Hageman, Brooks Reed " we need linebackers and he can play SLB in lieu of re-signing Philip Wheeler. That makes 2 spots available.

I'm not to fond of the DT's in this year class. Well at least not in the first two rounds. Players like Larry Ogunjobi, Mo Adams, Charles Walker, Eddie Vanderdoes, or Jaleel Johnson I wouldn't mind drafting in the 3rd round or later.

As far as the Vet DT's I'm not sure how FA will play itself out. They want to get paid, but like the statement below says not a lot of teams with money are hurting for DT's. Could we get Poe, Logan, or Hankins for a decent price as a rotational lineman?

 

Edited by atlbaby

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Now that Tyson Jackson is no longer here I wonder who plays the SDE in base? Derrick Shelby who is a force against the run or Jack Crawford who is the better rusher.

Last year report

Quote
Cowboys re-signed DE Jack Crawford to a one-year contract.
Crawford, 27, spent last season as a reserve defensive tackle and end for Dallas, tallying four sacks but getting washed out in run defense. The Cowboys will hope Crawford won't have to play as many snaps this season. Edge pass rusher is arguably Dallas' biggest need entering this month's draft. Mon, Apr 4, 2016 04:02:00 PM

This year report

Quote
Bleacher Report's Jason Cole reports up to five teams have shown interest in free agent DE Jack Crawford, including the Bills, Colts, and Jaguars.
Crawford played 548 snaps on the Cowboys' starved-for-talent defensive line last season, but received really poor marks from Pro Football Focus for his pass rush and run defense, finishing as the site's No. 50 end out of 53 qualifiers. Crawford, 29 this year, shouldn't cost much on a short-term deal. Mar 6 - 10:07 AM
 
Falcons signed DE Jack Crawford, formerly of the Cowboys, to a three-year, $10.3-million contract.
Crawford is a situational pass rusher who has 7.5 sacks over the past two years. He'll be a rotational player for a line still lacking linchpin pass rushers. Mar 9 - 3:56 PM

I have to go back to see what position (DE/DT) he got his sacks from.

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Great post brother. I can't believe the draft is so close. I haven't looked at anything football since the super bowl that might be the reason why.

 

I'm excited for the season though,  Quinn really knows what he's doing when it come to evaluating guys. I don't question the guys we bring in, well maybe Brooks reed but I think we just needed some players at some point. 

 

Couple more drafts and we will be scary if not already.

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Quinn loves to rotate his D-linemen so they're not going to pay heavily for them. Due to that they're going to pick up cheaper role players as they have in the past (eg. Clayborn, Shelby, Crawford) and will probably play the wait and see game with players like Poe, Hankins, and Logans to see how cheap they can get once the initial overpay wave of free agency subsides.

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Great post! I completely agree with signing Logan, Hankins, or Poe. Tbh i would rather have Logan or Hank due to Poe's back problems but we would most likely get Poe cheaper.

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Hankins would be a beast here, so would Poe. I still think DQ has Poe drop 20-30 pounds and play around 310-315 for more quickness if we sign him. 

I'd rather sign Hankins to a 4-5 year deal and have DT good to go til Jarrett's rookie deal ends (3 more years w/ 5th year option). 3 years of consistency would be very good on the interior.

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The back injury is scaring me off Poe.

Im also glad the values for guys like Logan Hankins are down there basically 2 down guys and as FA goes on I think there value falls quite a bit.If we could get either of the mentioned for Shelby type dollars sign em up.

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9 hours ago, atlbaby said:

As I look at the potential signings or draftees, I looked back on the numbers and players Quinn had on the D-line from 2013 until now.

In the 2013-2014 Super Bowl winning season Quinn carried 10 defensive lineman: (Red Bryant, Brandon Mebane, Tony McDaniel, Chris Clemons, Michael Bennett, Jordan Hill, Clinton McDonald, Cliff Avril, Bruce Irvin, Benson Mayowa)

In the 2014-2015 season Quinn carried 9 defensive lineman or 10 with Bruce Irvin playing DE in nickel: (Michael Bennett, Brandon Mebane, Tony McDaniel, Cliff Avril, Greg Scruggs, Kevin Williams, Jordan Hill, O'Brien Schofield, Cassius Marsh, *Bruce Irvin)

In the 2015-2016 season Quinn carried 9 defensive lineman or 10 with Schofield playing DE in nickel: (Tyson Jackson, Paul Soliai, Ra'shede Hageman, Vic Beasley, Adrian Clayborn, Grady Jarrett, Jonathan Babineaux, Malliciah Goodman, Kroy Biermann, * O'Brien Schofield)

In the 2016-2017 season Quinn carried 9 defensive lineman or 10 with Beasley playing DE in nickel: (Tyson Jackson, Grady Jarrett, Jonathan Babineaux, Brooks Reed, Adrian Clayborn, Dwight Freeney, Derrick Shelby, Courtney Upshaw, Ra'shede Hageman, * Vic Beasley)

 

So with 10 lineman being the norm with SLB including I see the following players being locks: Grady Jarrett, Vic Beasley, Jack Crawford, Courtney Upshaw, Adrian Clayborn, Derrick Shelby, Ra'shede Hageman, Brooks Reed " we need linebackers and he can play SLB in lieu of re-signing Philip Wheeler. That makes 2 spots available.

 

I would love to re-sign Freeney but if it came down to 2 spots I will stick to my guys, Poe and McKinley.

 

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I may be wrong but I don't believe we are going to sign any of 3 DTs you mentioned. We asked Paul Soliai to restructure his contract before releasing him and his 6M cap hit but now all of a sudden we want to pursue Poe??? The only reason Poe is linked to us is because Piololi drafted him.

Our d-line played some good ball down the stretch late last season into the playoffs and did a good job against Brees, Rodgers, and Brady. All we need is another pass rusher opposite Beasley and we're in good position. They will get better because the back seven will be better with experience.

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2 hours ago, Cole World said:

I may be wrong but I don't believe we are going to sign any of 3 DTs you mentioned. We asked Paul Soliai to restructure his contract before releasing him and his 6M cap hit but now all of a sudden we want to pursue Poe??? The only reason Poe is linked to us is because Piololi drafted him.

Our d-line played some good ball down the stretch late last season into the playoffs and did a good job against Brees, Rodgers, and Brady. All we need is another pass rusher opposite Beasley and we're in good position. They will get better because the back seven will be better with experience.

Lol poe is not the same player Soliai was. I liked soliai,  but his impact on pass rushing downs were minimal. Poe actually has burst and more speed. 

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That's why I thought we would go after Chris Baker - he can play both outside and inside and doesn't have to come off the field. 

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, UnrealfalcoN said:

Lol poe is not the same player Soliai was. I liked soliai,  but his impact on pass rushing downs were minimal. Poe actually has burst and more speed. 

And Poe would be able to slim down for our system instead of being asked to anchor as a 3-4 NT. I bet his back injury concerns go down quite a bit in a 1-gap system and 20lbs lighter (at least) to put his playing weight in the 320s range instead of 340+. Also, his biggest value would be upgrading Babs/Jackson production. He can more than beat what those guys did in terms of tackles last year, and definitely can get more sacks as well. It's a win/win with 1 player. Hankins probably deserves a longer deal as Poe does have some question marks. It's really about who the Falcons want more since they are freeing up cap space, though.

The truth regarding some younger players on roster coming up with contract years makes any big FA signing a completely calculated move if you get into a bidding war. This makes Poe even more likely. Bid war for Hankins on a cashing in contract or Poe getting a year to prove himself with maybe a team option or incentive laden deal? Then, if you win the Super Bowl reconsider keeping him on a longer deal in the offseason. ;)

 

Next offseason as it stands today UFA:

Gabriel (>$5mpy if he has a 16 game season of production next year before UFA)

Freeman ($7.5mpy asking price with another good season, tag him? LOL)

Clayborn (If no injuries next year is he back for $5mpy or do we rely on draft at that point?)

Hageman (>$3mpy asking price projection? if he gets a nice production increase at all next year before UFA then someone somewhere overpays that)

Trufant ($>10mpy more than likely and hopefully is done before the season starts, maybe after June 1st?)

Matt Bryant (probably need a new kicker to groom this offseason or next at latest?)

 

Noteables:

Matthews (club option for 2018?)

Soliai and Jackson's dead cap hits will be either gone after this year. That's another $4m at least in cap space back next year. EDIT: Jackson's post June 1 desgination means it stays around for 2018 my bad.

EDIT: If you budget those UFAs as coming back you need at least what...$35m in cap space alone if that's how much their first year counts towards the cap?

Edited by slimjim
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Posted (edited)

On 3/10/2017 at 11:49 AM, Crazy Trav said:

Great post! I completely agree with signing Logan, Hankins, or Poe. Tbh i would rather have Logan or Hank due to Poe's back problems but we would most likely get Poe cheaper.

Both of those guys have missed more games than Poe.

Edited by Yo_Lover
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Just now, Yo_Lover said:

Both if those guys have missed more games than Poe

Which is exactly why it's more about Poe's "marketability" after his most recent season and Hankins having a good year. Poe has to project more next year based on 2016 than Hankins. I'm not as familiar with Logan. Either way, there is a reason Poe is having to face the sad truth of being asked to be a NT and playing overweight in KC. Maybe his back concerns and production would be better in a 1-gap and playing weight of 320s. Therefore, Atlanta on a 1 year deal makes sense for both sides. Falcons don't want to overpay for Hankins (assuming the obvious bidding war that happens in FA) with how many FAs of their own will come along next offseason.

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On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:11 PM, atlbaby said:

Now that Tyson Jackson is no longer here I wonder who plays the SDE in base? Derrick Shelby who is a force against the run or Jack Crawford who is the better rusher.

Dimitroff must be speaking for Quinn.

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On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:53 AM, atlbaby said:

next goal is to affect the quarterback, whether that's from a solid pass rush, excellent coverage downfield, or both.

I love this quote. This goes out to all that are miffed when we see DQ constantly improving the secondary (like the Collins pick, when all were sure it would be an Edge rusher). A ferocious  pass rush, often is a by-product of an elite secondary; and, yes, a ferocious pass rush can help a secondary.

But, this is why a FS that can play single-high and be disruptive could positively impact our defense, just as much or more than a pass rusher.

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8 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

I love this quote. This goes out to all that are miffed when we see DQ constantly improving the secondary (like the Collins pick, when all were sure it would be an Edge rusher). A ferocious  pass rush, often is a by-product of an elite secondary; and, yes, a ferocious pass rush can help a secondary.

But, this is why a FS that can play single-high and be disruptive could positively impact our defense, just as much or more than a pass rusher.

Yes we witness that first hand at the tail end of the season and into the playoffs. The communication in the back 7 improved and so did the pass rush. The young guys (Neal, Collins, Jones, and Campbell) will only get better with time spent together.

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Just now, atlbaby said:

Yes we witness that first hand at the tail end of the season and into the playoffs. The communication in the back 7 improved and so did the pass rush. The young guys (Neal, Collins, Jones, and Campbell) will only get better with time spent together.

And, let's say that we do draft a FS early--it may be for the future as well as for much needed depth and rotation. In no way do I foresee a scenario where Rico doesn't get significant snaps and play a huge role, either as a "super sub" or starter. It's a great year to grab a DB. That group is strong in this draft.

Plus there are several non-first round Edge and SDE prospects in this draft. We've chatted with Bowser. And I love Dashaen Hall. Long, athletic, explosive and could be a great fit.

I'm absolutely not worried at all about us taking a step backwards, because as you pointed out we have a very strong core. Add Alford, Trufant, Beasley, Jarrett and Hage to that group of young guys that you mentioned. We saw great improvement from them as well.

Honestly, we have a pretty stacked defense, right now. Simply adding a few playmakers will go a long way for depth and overall capability.

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6 minutes ago, atlbaby said:

Yes we witness that first hand at the tail end of the season and into the playoffs. The communication in the back 7 improved and so did the pass rush. The young guys (Neal, Collins, Jones, and Campbell) will only get better with time spent together.

Plus, everyone is sleeping on Jack Crawford. Talk about a DQ type SDE that can move inside. Check his draft profile http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jack-crawford?id=2532992 And the last two years in Dallas, Crawford was really starting to emerge as pass rushing threat. I can see DQ making him a star.

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10 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

And, let's say that we do draft a FS early--it may be for the future as well as for much needed depth and rotation. In no way do I foresee a scenario where Rico doesn't get significant snaps and play a huge role, either as a "super sub" or starter. It's a great year to grab a DB. That group is strong in this draft.

Plus there are several non-first round Edge and SDE prospects in this draft. We've chatted with Bowser. And I love Dashaen Hall. Long, athletic, explosive and could be a great fit.

I'm absolutely not worried at all about us taking a step backwards, because as you pointed out we have a very strong core. Add Alford, Trufant, Beasley, Jarrett and Hage to that group of young guys that you mentioned. We saw great improvement from them as well.

Honestly, we have a pretty stacked defense, right now. Simply adding a few playmakers will go a long way for depth and overall capability.

I like Dae Dae as well.

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Just now, atlbaby said:

I like Dae Dae as well.

i'd love to see our draft go like this:

rd. 1 Obi or Marcus Williams

Rd 2 Tyrus Bowser EDGE

Rd 3 Dashean Hall, SDE (maybe LEO?)

Rd 4 Dalvin Tomlinson (big DT)

Rd 5 OG or LB

Rd 7 OG, LB or RB

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5 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

i'd love to see our draft go like this:

rd. 1 Obi or Marcus Williams

Rd 2 Tyrus Bowser EDGE

Rd 3 Dashean Hall, SDE (maybe LEO?)

Rd 4 Dalvin Tomlinson (big DT)

Rd 5 OG or LB

Rd 7 OG, LB or RB

I would love to trade back if Solomon Thomas and or TJ Watt is not there @ pick 31

 

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