since68andcounting

OK, so I re-watched it

92 posts in this topic

I've rewatched full game 3 times. From opening kick to final TD I counted 9 non-calls on the Falcons. 4 O-hold, 1 false starts, 3 d-holds and 1 PI.......it goes both ways boys. This happens in EVERY NFL game. To use it as an excuse is border line ridiculous!!! 

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OP here. It seems everyone is focusing on the officiating part of the post. It was really meant to be more about overall general observations.

FWIW, I do NOT think the game was completely fixed, but I DO think the officiating in the late 2nd quarter and 2nd half was designed to "tighten the game up". Money talks. And those advertisers paid a ton of it. Once a few calls went the Pats way, and they had (or made) a couple breaks, then they pretty much got on a roll that we couldn't stop.

For those who say the game was thrown or completely fixed, c'mon man. It only takes TWO images to prove that false: 1) Arthur Blank pumping his fists after Coleman's TD, and  2) Arthur Blank looking like his dog died when NE came back. For a game to be completely thrown or fixed, the owners would HAVE to be in on it. They could sue for billions otherwise. And I'm sorry, Arthur Blank is NOT that good of an actor.

To the people who said all we had to do was run the ball 3 times and kick a FG, and that's why we lost, you're mostly right. But even then nothing was certain. We could've fumbled. We could've missed the kick, or had it blocked (like the extra point that actually WAS blocked). There were at least a dozen things that had to go wrong sequentially for us to lose that game. If ANY ONE of them had been different, we would have almost certainly won. The missed block by Free, the two holds by Matthews, several missed tackles late by the defense when they were tired, called penalties, un-called penalties, passing instead of running the ball, tipped balls falling just out of our reach, the freak catch by Edelman. It was absolutely a perfect storm and the odds against us losing were astronomical. That's why they play the game I guess. :sadwave:

To the ones who say "why am I bringing this up", you don't have to read the d@mn thread if you don't want to. I prefer to re-watch almost all Falcon home games because TV shows a different perspective from the Stadium. I also like to re-watch great wins (for the fun of it) and big losses (to learn from it).

FWIW, I was at the 98 Super Bowl with my father. It took me over 10 years to re-watch that game. After 2012, It took me 1 year to re-watch the NFCCG. And it took me 1 month to re-watch Super Bowl 51. Perhaps I'm getting hardened to the disappointment. :bang:

 

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40 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

OP here. It seems everyone is focusing on the officiating part of the post. It was really meant to be more about overall general observations.

FWIW, I do NOT think the game was completely fixed, but I DO think the officiating in the late 2nd quarter and 2nd half was designed to "tighten the game up". Money talks. And those advertisers paid a ton of it. Once a few calls went the Pats way, and they had (or made) a couple breaks, then they pretty much got on a roll that we couldn't stop.

For those who say the game was thrown or completely fixed, c'mon man. It only takes TWO images to prove that false: 1) Arthur Blank pumping his fists after Coleman's TD, and  2) Arthur Blank looking like his dog died when NE came back. For a game to be completely thrown or fixed, the owners would HAVE to be in on it. They could sue for billions otherwise. And I'm sorry, Arthur Blank is NOT that good of an actor.

To the people who said all we had to do was run the ball 3 times and kick a FG, and that's why we lost, you're mostly right. But even then nothing was certain. We could've fumbled. We could've missed the kick, or had it blocked (like the extra point that actually WAS blocked). There were at least a dozen things that had to go wrong sequentially for us to lose that game. If ANY ONE of them had been different, we would have almost certainly won. The missed block by Free, the two holds by Matthews, several missed tackles late by the defense when they were tired, called penalties, un-called penalties, passing instead of running the ball, tipped balls falling just out of our reach, the freak catch by Edelman. It was absolutely a perfect storm and the odds against us losing were astronomical. That's why they play the game I guess. :sadwave:

To the ones who say "why am I bringing this up", you don't have to read the d@mn thread if you don't want to. I prefer to re-watch almost all Falcon home games because TV shows a different perspective from the Stadium. I also like to re-watch great wins (for the fun of it) and big losses (to learn from it).

FWIW, I was at the 98 Super Bowl with my father. It took me over 10 years to re-watch that game. After 2012, It took me 1 year to re-watch the NFCCG. And it took me 1 month to re-watch Super Bowl 51. Perhaps I'm getting hardened to the disappointment. :bang:

 

Sounds like you had to use plenty of duct tape to put that argument together, as does anyone saying the game was not 'fixed', just officiated with a slight bias. How many 'perfect storms' can you have? There is only supposed to be one every couple of hundred years, but now I am hearing about them all over the place.

 

By the way Arthur cannot only act, he also river dances, and sings opera. So he is quite talented, don't sell him short (even if he is in the 'gentleman's club', still like Arthur).

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1 hour ago, since68andcounting said:

OP here. It seems everyone is focusing on the officiating part of the post. It was really meant to be more about overall general observations.

FWIW, I do NOT think the game was completely fixed, but I DO think the officiating in the late 2nd quarter and 2nd half was designed to "tighten the game up". Money talks. And those advertisers paid a ton of it. Once a few calls went the Pats way, and they had (or made) a couple breaks, then they pretty much got on a roll that we couldn't stop.

For those who say the game was thrown or completely fixed, c'mon man. It only takes TWO images to prove that false: 1) Arthur Blank pumping his fists after Coleman's TD, and  2) Arthur Blank looking like his dog died when NE came back. For a game to be completely thrown or fixed, the owners would HAVE to be in on it. They could sue for billions otherwise. And I'm sorry, Arthur Blank is NOT that good of an actor.

To the people who said all we had to do was run the ball 3 times and kick a FG, and that's why we lost, you're mostly right. But even then nothing was certain. We could've fumbled. We could've missed the kick, or had it blocked (like the extra point that actually WAS blocked). There were at least a dozen things that had to go wrong sequentially for us to lose that game. If ANY ONE of them had been different, we would have almost certainly won. The missed block by Free, the two holds by Matthews, several missed tackles late by the defense when they were tired, called penalties, un-called penalties, passing instead of running the ball, tipped balls falling just out of our reach, the freak catch by Edelman. It was absolutely a perfect storm and the odds against us losing were astronomical. That's why they play the game I guess. :sadwave:

To the ones who say "why am I bringing this up", you don't have to read the d@mn thread if you don't want to. I prefer to re-watch almost all Falcon home games because TV shows a different perspective from the Stadium. I also like to re-watch great wins (for the fun of it) and big losses (to learn from it).

FWIW, I was at the 98 Super Bowl with my father. It took me over 10 years to re-watch that game. After 2012, It took me 1 year to re-watch the NFCCG. And it took me 1 month to re-watch Super Bowl 51. Perhaps I'm getting hardened to the disappointment. :bang:

 

What was your take on the 98 Super Bowl loss? And what was your take on the 2012 loss? How much blame do you put on Eugene Robinson for 98 loss?

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1 hour ago, Cheap Talk said:

Sounds like you had to use plenty of duct tape to put that argument together, as does anyone saying the game was not 'fixed', just officiated with a slight bias. How many 'perfect storms' can you have? There is only supposed to be one every couple of hundred years, but now I am hearing about them all over the place.

 

By the way Arthur cannot only act, he also river dances, and sings opera. So he is quite talented, don't sell him short (even if he is in the 'gentleman's club', still like Arthur).

I guarantee you the Falcons did not lose on purpose. The referees may have been biased though.

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1 hour ago, JulioJones#1 said:

I guarantee you the Falcons did not lose on purpose. The referees may have been biased though.

JulioJones#1, it sure looked to me like your namesake wanted to win that Lombardy in the worst way, and was not going to let anything/anyone come between him at what he has worked so hard for. So you would really have to convince me that he knew anything. But, like a lot of great plays in the last minutes of recent SBs, many were not supposed to happen. Through my eyes Ryan was trying make that last catch to Julio un-catch-able, and sail it out of bounds. Julio just made an inhuman play on it. It's people like him that your heart goes out to, makes +15M/yr no matter. He put his body on the line to win, every game, and is the heart/soul of the Falcons. 

But.....there is no doubt in my mind that there were several Falcons involved: Quinn (involved with 3 SBs), Shannahan (Any questions?), Ryan (QBs have no choice), Freeman, Matthews, maybe one or two others. The good news is I think the Falcons are guaranteed a SB win in the next 1-2 years based on the humiliation they took for the League.

There are players on the Patriots that I also know were not involved, including Julian Edelman, listen to him trying to get everyone off the field so the last play could be reviewed (but never was), 

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-england-patriots-julian-edelman-super-bowl-micd-up-reaction-postgame-020817

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4 hours ago, Cheap Talk said:

JulioJones#1, it sure looked to me like your namesake wanted to win that Lombardy in the worst way, and was not going to let anything/anyone come between him at what he has worked so hard for. So you would really have to convince me that he knew anything. But, like a lot of great plays in the last minutes of recent SBs, many were not supposed to happen. Through my eyes Ryan was trying make that last catch to Julio un-catch-able, and sail it out of bounds. Julio just made an inhuman play on it. It's people like him that your heart goes out to, makes +15M/yr no matter. He put his body on the line to win, every game, and is the heart/soul of the Falcons. 

But.....there is no doubt in my mind that there were several Falcons involved: Quinn (involved with 3 SBs), Shannahan (Any questions?), Ryan (QBs have no choice), Freeman, Matthews, maybe one or two others. The good news is I think the Falcons are guaranteed a SB win in the next 1-2 years based on the humiliation they took for the League.

There are players on the Patriots that I also know were not involved, including Julian Edelman, listen to him trying to get everyone off the field so the last play could be reviewed (but never was), 

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-england-patriots-julian-edelman-super-bowl-micd-up-reaction-postgame-020817

That was weird how Falcons never asked 4 a review. Even if NFL was fixed I would still watch. 

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I like the post...especially since I'm a huge NON-Fan of our "NOT" so Special Teams with Keith Armstrong...thank God we have two talents Bryant & Bosh that don't need Coaching because all the rest has been this teams Achilles Heal... 

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6 hours ago, Club212 said:

I like the post...especially since I'm a huge NON-Fan of our "NOT" so Special Teams with Keith Armstrong...thank God we have two talents Bryant & Bosh that don't need Coaching because all the rest has been this teams Achilles Heal... 

We just need to upgrade Weems in returns unit. Rest will get better.

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8 hours ago, Club212 said:

I like the post...especially since I'm a huge NON-Fan of our "NOT" so Special Teams with Keith Armstrong...thank God we have two talents Bryant & Bosh that don't need Coaching because all the rest has been this teams Achilles Heal... 

lol  ya. he had a great quote... but OMG the penalties on returns is unacceptable.  

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Solid analysis. Kudos to you for watching it all, and I know it must've been painful.

Hard to disagree. The Falcons were the better team that took a bad time to have a bad time. The Patriots had the better coaching and adjustments and were able to come in clutch when they needed to.

Officiating is iffy. Now, it's been one of those conspiracies that have occurred in nearly every big game that resulted in a loss. For us, that was another reason we blamed our Superbowl 50 loss on when Cotchery should've caught that ball that would've kept a good drive going and prevent Von Miller's strip sack.

Alas, never happened, but I see your argument. Since I've experienced when officiating bites you in the butt, I can see how it was in the Patriots favor a lot.

The Falcons were clear-cut the better team, and should be real good next year. Scary team to watch out for, just hope we're ready to take the punch.

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27 minutes ago, SamMills51 said:

If you're curious, I've to this day haven't rewatched a segment of Superbowl 50. I can't imagine the pain of watching Superbowl 51.

Yeah, I probably will never rewatch SB 51. 

 

**** that...for weeks just thinking about that great Julio catch that was wasted put me in a bad mood

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Officiating: The three holding calls in a row on third down was the initial reason the TOP was so lopsided. At this point, the game looked like a first half blowout. The last thing the NFL wants in the Super Bowl, with millions of ad revenue on the line in the 2nd half, is a first half blowout. I'm convinced (and forever will be) that those calls were designed to prevent 100 million people from turning the game off after Lady GaGa. Then there were the NON-CALLs: Once New England looked like they were headed to a historic comeback, they simply weren't flagged for ANYTHING. Multiple illegal picks on the drive to bring them within 7. A blatant hold on the tying TD at the point of attack on Jackson (who was 2 yards in the backfield before the handoff). Their right guard simply GRABBED Jackson's left arm and spun him around. Two blatant offensive PI "blocks" on the tying 2-point conversion. A blatant hi-low on a screen pass on Deion Jones during the final OT drive, also right at the point of attack. And a blatant HOLD on Deion Jones right at the point of attack on the winning TD. You can say what you want, and I know that playoff games are called "looser", but it's hard to believe that many officials could miss that many repeated fouls, all of which directly influenced the play, without some sort of agenda being involved. Sure, we should have won the game anyway. But frankly, we ALLOWED the NFL to "job" us in order to extend the legend of Brady and Belichek, and they obliged.

 

this part tho..

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

If you're curious, I've to this day haven't rewatched a segment of Superbowl 50. I can't imagine the pain of watching Superbowl 51.

You too need to watch your SB loss, there are some interesting things to explain away. Why did CAM stand and stare at the football he fumbled, like it had poison ivy on it?

Really think that had a lot to do with Cam's attitude after the game, just could not hide what took place as well as others can, too much of a competitor. How can you talk to the press about what happened in the game, when you were told not to win? I really think this carried over big time into last season, knowing how things really work in the NFL, why even try? Maybe his time will come when he gets close to 40-years old?

Just like Atlanta was by far the better team last year against the Patriots, Carolina was by far the better team against the Broncos, unstoppable coming into the playoffs. Some comparisons are quite funny, the winning 40-year old QB last year could not throw the ball 30 yards down the field, and the 40-year old winning QB against the Panthers could not throw the ball 20 yards down the field. There seems to be a trend in the NFL, where 40-year old noodle-armed QBs tend to go out in a 'blaze of glory' winning the big one, over world class athletes in their prime. 

Edited by Cheap Talk

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On 3/13/2017 at 6:21 PM, JulioJones#1 said:

What was your take on the 98 Super Bowl loss? And what was your take on the 2012 loss? How much blame do you put on Eugene Robinson for 98 loss?

I really feel we would've won that '98 game if not for the Robinson incident. Our starting QB and best CB were up at 3:30am bailing the guy out of jail. Chandler was definitely a little "off" that day. The turning point of the game was when Eugene was beaten on the deep post. Was his head in the game? Maybe. But he may have been trying to do too much to make up for things, rather than just playing his role.

The 98 game was a lot closer than the score indicated. We moved the ball at will but the Denver D became a brick wall in the red zone. THEY should've gotten the MVP as a unit. Bill Romanowski was a one man wrecking crew.

2012 was a lot like this year. Multiple things had to go wrong for us to lose that game. Matt's fumble, Harry's slip. But one thing that really sticks with me is our time management on the final drive. It was very clear Smitty did not trust our defense because he was trying to squeeze every last second off the clock. But st some point, you have to help your offense. When your QB has just been hit hard, has a separated shoulder, is writhing in pain, and is about to make the most important throw of his career, you CALL A FREAKING TIME OUT. Let the guy catch his breath. Take some time and get the best play call possible. Get the TD first. THEN worry about playing defense. 

Then if a rookie QB runs down the field on you in your own raucous stadium with a minute left and beats you, you didn't deserve to win.

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If you ever want to see a Super Bowl taken away from a team, look at Pittsburgh-Seattle in Super Bowl 40. Seattle got hosed over and over again. I had no rooting interest in that game, and it was still hard to watch.

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So, the NFL fixes games and the players go along with it. They work their butts off for most of their life to get to the NFL to participate in a league with predetermined outcomes and no one....not one player ever, has come forward and said anything? Is the whole season scripted or just the Super Bowl? If just the Super Bowl, how do they make sure that the right teams get there? What if a player doesn't go along with it? How about coaches? Are coaches on board with the fixes? Just head coaches, or the entire coaching staff? What about owners? Do the owners not care if they win or lose, or is it just about money? This is astoundingly stupid but I'd love to get these questions answered. 

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Posted (edited)

On 3/13/2017 at 2:54 PM, Fore2213 said:

I've rewatched full game 3 times. From opening kick to final TD I counted 9 non-calls on the Falcons. 4 O-hold, 1 false starts, 3 d-holds and 1 PI.......it goes both ways boys. This happens in EVERY NFL game. To use it as an excuse is border line ridiculous!!! 

Its not whether they call it or not ( theres holding on almost every play in the nfl), its WHEN they call it that matters.  When the Patriots got THREE straight first downs by the refs to help keep them in the game, i knew the Falcons were toast...

Edited by slickgadawg
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Posted (edited)

20 hours ago, dsgbncali said:

Officiating: The three holding calls in a row on third down was the initial reason the TOP was so lopsided. At this point, the game looked like a first half blowout. The last thing the NFL wants in the Super Bowl, with millions of ad revenue on the line in the 2nd half, is a first half blowout. I'm convinced (and forever will be) that those calls were designed to prevent 100 million people from turning the game off after Lady GaGa. Then there were the NON-CALLs: Once New England looked like they were headed to a historic comeback, they simply weren't flagged for ANYTHING. Multiple illegal picks on the drive to bring them within 7. A blatant hold on the tying TD at the point of attack on Jackson (who was 2 yards in the backfield before the handoff). Their right guard simply GRABBED Jackson's left arm and spun him around. Two blatant offensive PI "blocks" on the tying 2-point conversion. A blatant hi-low on a screen pass on Deion Jones during the final OT drive, also right at the point of attack. And a blatant HOLD on Deion Jones right at the point of attack on the winning TD. You can say what you want, and I know that playoff games are called "looser", but it's hard to believe that many officials could miss that many repeated fouls, all of which directly influenced the play, without some sort of agenda being involved. Sure, we should have won the game anyway. But frankly, we ALLOWED the NFL to "job" us in order to extend the legend of Brady and Belichek, and they obliged.

 

this part tho..

 

 

Edited by slickgadawg
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Posted (edited)

On 3/9/2017 at 7:28 PM, ket222 said:

that video a poster showed in this thread was pretty shocking.  it's not the typical claim that referees don't call certain plays, but two players on opposite TEAMS that follow the player's thumps up signal and make a blatant missed tackle.  so who told them to do this and why aren't ex-players coming out and saying this stuff happens after they retire?  I can't believe an owner or coach would allow their team to lose, but this seemed like proof of a set up (or at least a decision to make the game more exciting--keeping the game closer-for ratings). 

can someone show other examples of this, bc it's outrageous if true.

 

 

Edited by slickgadawg
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5 hours ago, since68andcounting said:

I really feel we would've won that '98 game if not for the Robinson incident. Our starting QB and best CB were up at 3:30am bailing the guy out of jail. Chandler was definitely a little "off" that day. The turning point of the game was when Eugene was beaten on the deep post. Was his head in the game? Maybe. But he may have been trying to do too much to make up for things, rather than just playing his role.

The 98 game was a lot closer than the score indicated. We moved the ball at will but the Denver D became a brick wall in the red zone. THEY should've gotten the MVP as a unit. Bill Romanowski was a one man wrecking crew.

2012 was a lot like this year. Multiple things had to go wrong for us to lose that game. Matt's fumble, Harry's slip. But one thing that really sticks with me is our time management on the final drive. It was very clear Smitty did not trust our defense because he was trying to squeeze every last second off the clock. But st some point, you have to help your offense. When your QB has just been hit hard, has a separated shoulder, is writhing in pain, and is about to make the most important throw of his career, you CALL A FREAKING TIME OUT. Let the guy catch his breath. Take some time and get the best play call possible. Get the TD first. THEN worry about playing defense. 

Then if a rookie QB runs down the field on you in your own raucous stadium with a minute left and beats you, you didn't deserve to win.

They should have sent Bob Christian and Todd Kinchen to bail him out. They were both inactive for the game. Or even Steve Deberg.

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