Spectre

Trump - Russia Thread

2,069 posts in this topic

10 minutes ago, holymoses said:

I'll take this one step at a time for you . . .

I don't get the Armstrong reference.

He won the Tour 7 times . . . doping each time.  Doping is cheating. We can't measure how effective the cheating was, but in my opinion, he  was not a legitimate Champion. 

No evidence of cheating

We KNOW Russia hacked our election . . . ILLEGALLY.  Illegally seeking to influence an election is cheating.  We don't know how effective the cheating was, but . . . 

PA, what do the Russians have to do with PA?  

 . . . given the closeness of the race in Pennsylvania, even if the cheating was only effective enough to change 1/2 of 1 percent of the vote, it would have been enough to change the outcome of the election.

What does campaigning and yard signs have to do with Russian Collusion?  

There are a TON of things candidates and PAC's do to influence votes.  I gave a lot of examples.  One of the most EFFECTIVE things they do is run attack ads on their opponents.  Trump was getting weeks of daily attack ads FREE via the Russian sourced wikileaks emails and other Russian sourced fake news.

Is all that clear enough now or should I type slower and use larger font?

You don't know wikileaks was by a Russian source...you're speculating which is what most of your points are here.  I like real evidence, not opinions on what anyone thinks happened.  Hillary lost, I can give you 10 good reason why, but I don't want to rehash all that or bore our other posters.  

Lance Cheated, has nothing to do with evidence the GOP was cheating

Russia was seeking to influence our election...seeking and did with no proof are two different things

PA, even if?  No proof of cheating once again.  Until we have proof I'n just tossing aside your "what ifs" Or "even ifs" 

Campaigning to influence votes, yes.  That is perfectly legal here.  Not sure if you type longer or slower that somehow you are going to convince anyone that our campaigns ads that attacks are anyway tied into Russian collusion.  

 

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1 hour ago, holymoses said:

FFS . . . AGAIN?

You must pleasure yourself to a poster of Lance Armstrong on your wall every night.

Because, you know . . . just because he cheated doesn't mean it actually helped him win.

He won by such a landslide. 

Do the math . . . 1 out of every 500 votes in Michigan and 1 out of every 200 votes in Pennsylvania and Hillary is our President.   You don't think the all the fake news, all the hacked emails, etc, could have changed 1/2 of 1 percent of the vote in PA?

Tell me why candidates campaign and raise money and run ads and have bumper stickers and yard signs and social media and . . . .

It doesn't change a single vote. 

Gotchya.

 

Uhhhh...not good examples to illustrate the point you're trying to make.  Just saying.

51GIsWkoXAL._SX314_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

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39 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Uhhhh...not good examples to illustrate the point you're trying to make.  Just saying.

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You know I know that!  And you know that that's not my point. You're  not helping.

 Even you and my man crush admit that campaigns fo matter, if only to a limited amount. 

 But you CAN help. Since you are the expert, do you have an opinion as to whether or not the kind of  attack ads  that were effectively levied on Clinton as a result of the various Russian  influences was enough to change the results of Pennsylvania and Michigan? 

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7 hours ago, holymoses said:

You know I know that!  And you know that that's not my point. You're  not helping.

 Even you and my man crush admit that campaigns fo matter, if only to a limited amount. 

 But you CAN help. Since you are the expert, do you have an opinion as to whether or not the kind of  attack ads  that were effectively levied on Clinton as a result of the various Russian  influences was enough to change the results of Pennsylvania and Michigan? 

Oh, I absolutely think that the fake news stories and conflation of the hacked emails with the FBI investigation into her SoS emails could have persuaded 100,000 or more people across three states.  Ultimately, I don' tknow how we can demonstrate that, but it's easily within the realm of possibility.  

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Also, this is happening:

Senate investigators plan to question Jared Kushner, President Trump’s son-in-law and a close adviser, as part of their broad inquiry into ties between Trump associates and Russian officials or others linked to the Kremlin, according to administration and congressional officials.

The White House Counsel’s Office was informed this month that the Senate Intelligence Committee, which is investigating Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, wanted to question Mr. Kushner about meetings he arranged with the Russian ambassador, Sergey I. Kislyak, according to the government officials. The meetings included a previously unreported sit-down with the head of Russia’s state-owned development bank.

Until now, the White House had acknowledged only an early December meeting between Mr. Kislyak and Mr. Kushner, which occurred at Trump Tower and was also attended by Michael T. Flynn, who would briefly serve as the national security adviser.

Later that month, though, Mr. Kislyak requested a second meeting, which Mr. Kushner asked a deputy to attend in his stead, officials said. At Mr. Kislyak’s request, Mr. Kushner later met with Sergey N. Gorkov, the chief of Vnesheconombank, which drew sanctions from the Obama administration after President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia annexed Crimea and began meddling in Ukraine.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/us/politics/senate-jared-kushner-russia.html?hp&_r=0

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9 hours ago, Billy Ocean said:

If you ever get really bored, you can read about shock therapy economics and Russia.

Naomi Klein’s book 'The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism' covers it well.  The shock doctrine is defined as “the use of public disorientation following massive collective shocks - wars, terrorist attacks, natural disasters - to push through highly unpopular economic shock therapy.”

Shock therapy consists of extreme free market measures of the sort advocated by Milton Friedman and the members of his Chicago school of economics. 

Klein explains how it works by comparing it to torture, “a set of techniques designed to put prisoners into a state of deep disorientation and shock in order to force them to make concessions against their will.” 

Oh, Friedman. It would be difficult to find a more cancerous economist of the past century than him.

That said, I don't know how else that transition was supposed to happen. Their economic system had completely collapsed and needed to be rebuilt and unlike when Lenin incorporated the NEP as a sort of transition system the new Russia didn't have a strong enough government or executive that could implement something like that. Due to that the economy was basically left to whoever could gain control of their sectors, who IIRC were mostly ex-Communist Party economic commissars, and if they couldn't gain total control then they'd more or less fight gang wars to make the others quit.

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Devin Nunes was apparently at the White House the day before announcing his info about incidental surveillance of Trump people.  Reports are also that he had a secure room to view classified information.

This looks like Nunes coordinated with the Trump administration to get this classified information to the public and it looks like he did so to provide flak for Trump's wiretapping claims.

When asked if he got the info from the White House, he didn't rule it out.  

He's got some explaining to do.

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10 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Devin Nunes was apparently at the White House the day before announcing his info about incidental surveillance of Trump people.  Reports are also that he had a secure room to view classified information.

This looks like Nunes coordinated with the Trump administration to get this classified information to the public and it looks like he did so to provide flak for Trump's wiretapping claims.

When asked if he got the info from the White House, he didn't rule it out.  

He's got some explaining to do.

This is easily one of the dumbest political stunts I have ever seen. It was clear after watching his press conference that he was struggling to keep his story straight and this was just to deflect attention. All it really accomplished was make them all look guilty (especially after his antics with his committee since then) and gave an argument for all anti-Trump politicians to push for an independent commission.

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Just now, Psychic Gibbon said:

This is easily one of the dumbest political stunts I have ever seen. It was clear after watching his press conference that he was struggling to keep his story straight and this was just to deflect attention. All it really accomplished was make them all look guilty (especially after his antics with his committee since then) and give an argument for all anti-Trump politicians to push for an independent commission.

Yep, pretty much this.  

If he doesn't have a very good explanation for the timeline here then I don't see how he has any credibility to continue being at the helm of the investigation.  We already know that he coordinated with the White House to knock down some news reporting that Trump didn't like.  That combined with this stump virtually guarantees that he lacks any credibility to head an independent investigation.  

He's looking more like a mouthpiece for the WH every day.

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14 hours ago, big_dog said:

No, FBI Director Comey did and is investigating full steam ahead. You don't watch the news?

"Rigged" isn't really part of this, Trump supporters can't actually understand this.

The Elections weren't rigged, Voting machines weren't hacked by Russians and votes flipped.

What did happen is the Trump administration made a deal with Russia that if they helped him produce a well calculated smear campaign against HRC by using hacked DNC info and Trump ended up winning Trump would produce pro Russia policy and lift Sanctions.

Also it seems their is alot of other Business ties with Trump/Russia but this is the gist of all of this.

No one is ever going to prove Hacked email news actually changed the election. What can be proved is Trump make a deal with Russia to get help in the election and in return promised them policy concessions and sanctions to be lifted.

Of course Trump supporters are idiots and try and boil everything down to "rigged" VS not "rigged" but that is completely irrelevant here.

We've even seen Trumpers try and argue that Hacked email didn't sway enough votes so the dealings with Trump/Russia don't matter. The results don't matter it's the intention of working for an adversarial foreign government to "TRY" and sway election results that is the crime and full on Treason.

 

Edited by MAD597
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7 minutes ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

This is easily one of the dumbest political stunts I have ever seen. It was clear after watching his press conference that he was struggling to keep his story straight and this was just to deflect attention. All it really accomplished was make them all look guilty (especially after his antics with his committee since then) and gave an argument for all anti-Trump politicians to push for an independent commission.

I'm almost to the point of comparing this to Bill talking to Lynch on the tarmac. 

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2 minutes ago, MAD597 said:

"Rigged" isn't really part of this, Trump supporters can;t actually understand this.

The Elections weren't rigged, Voting machines weren't hacked by Russians and votes flipped.

What did happen is is the Trump administration made a deal with Russia that if they helped him produce a well calculated smear campaign against HRC by using hacked DNC info and Trump ended up winning Trump would produce pro Russia policy and lift Sanctions.

Also it seems their is alot of other Business ties with Trump/Russia but this is the gist of all of this.

No one is ever going to prove Hacked email news actually changed the election. What can be proved is Trump make a deal with Russia to get help in the election and in return promised them policy concessions and sanctions to be lifted.

Of course Trump supporters are idiots and try and boil everything down to "rigged" VS not "rigged" but that is completely irrelevant here.

We've even seen Trumpers try and argue that Hackecd email didn't sway enough votes so the dealings with Trump/Russia don;t matter. The results don't matter it's the intention of working for an adversarial foreign government to "TRY" and sway election results that is the crime and full on Treason.

 

Hope wfw reads and digests this post. Still don,t think it will sink in. He is a bit 'dense' between the ears.

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Just now, mdrake34 said:

 

Don't worry guys, it's totally legit since he was looking into this before Trump made his accusation!

Too bad he said, "That never happened," multiple times when asked if Trump's wiretapping were true.

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2 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

Extreme vetting:

 

He was SO annoying doing press rounds before the election. He was as bad as Conway. No surprise he turned out corrupt

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BREAKING NEWS: Devin Nunes will have his source of information about wiretapping Trump and his aides give public testimony at their next public hearing on the committee.  In order to protect the identity of his source, however, he's going to have the person testify behind a screen and use software to change the person's voice.  Here is a preview of the secret source of information that Nunes relied upon for his press conference statements:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dark-Trump.jpg

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24 minutes ago, big_dog said:

Hope wfw reads and digests this post. Still don,t think it will sink in. He is a bit 'dense' between the ears.

What did happen is the Trump administration made a deal with Russia that if they helped him produce a well calculated smear campaign against HRC by using hacked DNC info and Trump ended up winning Trump would produce pro Russia policy and lift Sanctions.

 

JFC, you're kidding, please tell me you're kidding right? 

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36 minutes ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

What did happen is the Trump administration made a deal with Russia that if they helped him produce a well calculated smear campaign against HRC by using hacked DNC info and Trump ended up winning Trump would produce pro Russia policy and lift Sanctions.

 

JFC, you're kidding, please tell me you're kidding right? 

I don't have time to play nursemaid. If you don't keep up with this topic I can't help you.

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Nunes said Manafort offered to testify under oath, but I'm seeing that he, Stone, Page, and now Kushner might not be under oath when they meet, behind closed doors, with the House Committee.  What's the point?

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22 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

Nunes said Manafort offered to testify under oath, but I'm seeing that he, Stone, Page, and now Kushner might not be under oath when they meet, behind closed doors, with the House Committee.  What's the point?

Flak.

Nunes looks like he's compromised and is just trying to protect Trump.  More pressure for an independent investigation.

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6 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Flak.

Nunes looks like he's compromised and is just trying to protect Trump.  More pressure for an independent investigation.

At this point, Nunes reminds me of Matt Damon's character in The Departed. 

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