gazoo

Ryan played better in 2016 Playoffs than Tom Brady has ever played in playoffs

522 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Godsmith said:

Actually, I don't think there is much lower than a Jet fan, maybe an Eagle fan? The bottom line is that it really is a useless debate, in the end all games are 60 minutes, not 45. Ryan had his chances to close the deal and failed, Brady did what he almost always does when the game is o the line, he steps up in the biggest moments and most critical situations. That's just the facts, anything else is just noise that guys like gazoo use to make themselves feel better.

I agree with everything you said, except the Eagle fan crack. 

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You are 100% correct my friend!  Matt Ryan is the real deal and tough as they come!  He has taken a pounding through the years and always got up fired up and all the more determined!  Matt Ryan is a beast!

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On 2/23/2017 at 11:48 PM, takeitdown said:

I'll agree that the playcalling was insane for a team up.  I think the Falcons knew one more score would put it away (which it would have) and focused on that aspect instead of the other thing that would have put it away which is clock.

I think the Ryan sack thing is overblown though.  Most of those sacks are on 3rd down.  You don't want your QB throwing the ball away on 3rd down.  You want him standing in there, waiting for an opportunity to convert.  What I WOULD have liked to see were more short patterns, and backs in patterns so we could move the chains.

The only bad sack was the one with 4:00, and the DT uncovered off Mack unexpectedly at the end.  I don't think this was Ryan's best game, but one Freeman block and the subsequent 40 yard pass, and his game is probably being described as one of the best Super Bowl games ever (150 passer rating, 300 yards, 3 TDs, 9+ypa).  The big factors on offense were playcalling and our tackles just getting mercilessly whipped (and the playcalling not reflecting that.) 

It wasn't just the sack. It was the 7 step drop which was part of the play. FFS He knew that they were blitzing. That means he has got to get the ball out quick. He also know his offensive line was hurt, which means that is even more essential to get the ball out and not drop back so far. He could have called a dink and dunk play to a half back, a shuffle pass, or a draw or simply thrown the ball away fast. So not only was it stupid to hike the ball with some much of the clock still left, but having a seven step drop, refusing to audible, and just tucking it in and losing so many yards on 1 play is insane. If anything being a smart QB is supposed to be MRs strength. Was he just following orders or did he have the power to change the play and just went full r etard?

Edited by Intellectually Honest

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22 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

 If anything being a smart QB is supposed to be MRs strength. Was he just following orders or did he have the power to change the play and just went full r etard?

Well that's the thing.  Being smart is his thing.  And the playcalling was clearly suboptimal in the 2nd half.  So I lean toward it being a bad playcall.  Even so, on that 4:00 one, the play was blocked up (hat on a hat), the guy just blew by Mack.  And that's sort of the problem.  You check out of a play when you see you can't get a hat on a hat.  On both the strip sack, and the 4:00 sack, the Falcons had it blocked up with a hat on a hat.  Freeman and Mack simply failed.

As a QB, you can't go into the play just assuming your blockers aren't going to block, or you'd never succeed.  So if he checks that the play called is sufficiently blocked, then he should proceed.

Now, the playcalls weren't good or bright there, but that's why I'd lay that at the feet of the OC, not the QB.  If there were free blitzers coming and getting the sacks, then that's on the QB.

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I've read this whole thread and added a couple of posts myself.  Here's what I think:

Matt Ryan had a great season and, if he stays healthy and has an OC who understands and plays to his strengths, he should put up another three to six high level seasons.

Tom Brady lost two Super Bowl games.  We can say three things about those games.  

One, Brady gave his team the lead with less than four minutes to play in each.  

Two, Brady only led his team to an average of 15.5 points in those two games.  

Three, Brady was outplayed by Eli Manning in both of those games because, whether there was a lucky break or not, whether calls went in his favor or not, Eli somehow enabled his team to WIN those games.  At the end of the day, that's all that matters.  Eli Manning beat Tom Brady twice on the biggest stage imaginable.  For that, he will go to the HOF, even if he never plays another game.

There's no way anyone can say that a QB who had a 25 point lead at 6:29 of the Third Quarter and then didn't engineer a single point in the last 23 minutes and 31 seconds of Regulation played "better" than the QB who led his team to 25 straight points in the remainder of Regulation and six more points in Overtime.  You can cite all the bad coaching calls and lucky breaks you want, but you just can't say he "played better."  You can say he put up a better QBR, but that's about it.  You're just embarrassing yourselves to say anything else.

Super Bowl victories are fragile things.  There was an extensive article in the New York Times (the city where I live) that showed how close Brady and the Pats were to going both 0--7 as well as 7--0 in the seven Super Bowls in which they have contended in the Brady-Belichick era.  You guys are 0--2.  Any reasonable observer would say that you could be 1--1.

Edited by NYCFan
clarity
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It is so ridiculous how some fans emotionally ascribe a win or a loss during a game to the QB.

Some here think a QB  on the losing team can't play better than a QB on he winning team.

Its stupid, silly, emotional and illogical. Its a fraudulent premise we see from foolish emotional fans that don't understand wins and losses are a function of the entire teams play collectively over the course of over 100 snaps.

According to some, if Alford makes the interception late in game where Brady threw ball into his hands that would have meant Ryan played better than Brady, but since Alford bobbled it that means Brady played better. (A pick would have meant game over and Falcons win)

in other words, Matt Ryan's play over 50 snaps was betwe or worse than Brady's based on Alford making or dropping interception. 

There were over 100 snaps in that game on offense and defense. Ryan was on field for less than half of them.

 

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54 minutes ago, NYCFan said:

I've read this whole thread and added a couple of posts myself.  Here's what I think:

Matt Ryan had a great season and, if he stays healthy and has an OC who understands and plays to his strengths, he should put up another three to six high level seasons.

Tom Brady lost two Super Bowl games.  We can say three things about those games.  

One, Brady gave his team the lead with less than four minutes to play in each.  

Two, Brady only led his team to an average of 15.5 points in those two games.  

Three, Brady was outplayed by Eli Manning in both of those games because, whether there was a lucky break or not, whether calls went in his favor or not, Eli somehow enabled his team to WIN those games.  At the end of the day, that's all that matters.  Eli Manning beat Tom Brady twice on the biggest stage imaginable.  For that, he will go to the HOF, even if he never plays another game.

There's no way anyone can say that a QB who had a 25 point lead at 6:29 of the Third Quarter and then didn't engineer a single point in the last 23 minutes and 31 seconds of Regulation played "better" than the QB who led his team to 25 straight points in the remainder of Regulation and six more points in Overtime.  You can cite all the bad coaching calls and lucky breaks you want, but you just can't say he "played better."  You can say he put up a better QBR, but that's about it.  You're just embarrassing yourselves to say anything else.

Super Bowl victories are fragile things.  There was an extensive article in the New York Times (the city where I live) that showed how close Brady and the Pats were to going both 0--7 as well as 7--0 in the seven Super Bowls in which they have contended in the Brady-Belichick era.  You guys are 0--2.  Any reasonable observer would say that you could be 1--1.

Any analysis that fails to address the Falcons offensive line breaking down  in the second half, especially with a an injured center and LT playing on one leg at start of game then RT tearing a tendon on his ankle ( our 3 best OL all OBVIOUSLY playing injured in second half) is not only incomplete but also misguided considering Ryan still played better than Brady under pressure. Brady looked horrible under pressure roast half and had no pressure the last few drives.

uet again another example of fans blaming the QB for things totally out of his control.

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5 minutes ago, NickMessina said:

Who wants to place bets on whether or not Matt Ryan is still playing in the NFL when he's 40? How about a bet whether or not Matt Ryan is playing in (and winning) a super bowl when he's 40? Any takers? 

I didn't think so. 

Anyone think he'll be remembered for anything other than that fumble? 

I don't give a fuk about what anyone is doing at age 40. 

And The brush has not been fully painted yet as to what Ryan will be remembered for.

what will you be remembered for?

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2 hours ago, gazoo said:

Any analysis that fails to address the Falcons offensive line breaking down  in the second half, especially with a an injured center and LT playing on one leg at start of game then RT tearing a tendon on his ankle ( our 3 best OL all OBVIOUSLY playing injured in second half) is not only incomplete but also misguided considering Ryan still played better than Brady under pressure. Brady looked horrible under pressure roast half and had no pressure the last few drives.

uet again another example of fans blaming the QB for things totally out of his control.

This is clearly a futile discussion.

Others may have "blamed" Ryan, but I have not.  He does not deserve any "blame" for that loss.  And, I would also not say he "choked," which some of your own fans on this Board have said.  They don't know what they are talking about.  One can argue that Shanahan and Quinn "choked" in their play calling, but that is an entirely different discussion.

All I have said is that, in a Super Bowl, "playing better under pressure" is defined by winning or losing.  There are Patriot diehards who will argue that Brady "played better" than Eli in one or both of the SB's he lost.  I regard that as nonsense, just as I regard it as nonsense to say that Ryan "played better" than Brady three weeks ago.  

Injuries, bad coaching decisions, bad luck and bad calls happen in every Super Bowl and in every Playoff run.  Brady played much of the season and the entire Playoff run without his #1 target, Gronkowski.  He just figured out how to get more out of other guys...none of whom are as talented as #11.

Let's just agree to disagree.  I'm clearly not going to change your mind and you are definitely not going to change my mind about this.  I'm willing to let it go.

Thanks for the conversation and Good Luck to your team in its beautiful new stadium next year!  Who knows, you might be the real "Home Team" in the SB two years from now!

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5 hours ago, NYCFan said:

This is clearly a futile discussion.

Others may have "blamed" Ryan, but I have not.  He does not deserve any "blame" for that loss.  And, I would also not say he "choked," which some of your own fans on this Board have said.  They don't know what they are talking about.  One can argue that Shanahan and Quinn "choked" in their play calling, but that is an entirely different discussion.

All I have said is that, in a Super Bowl, "playing better under pressure" is defined by winning or losing.  There are Patriot diehards who will argue that Brady "played better" than Eli in one or both of the SB's he lost.  I regard that as nonsense, just as I regard it as nonsense to say that Ryan "played better" than Brady three weeks ago.  

Injuries, bad coaching decisions, bad luck and bad calls happen in every Super Bowl and in every Playoff run.  Brady played much of the season and the entire Playoff run without his #1 target, Gronkowski.  He just figured out how to get more out of other guys...none of whom are as talented as #11.

Let's just agree to disagree.  I'm clearly not going to change your mind and you are definitely not going to change my mind about this.  I'm willing to let it go.

Thanks for the conversation and Good Luck to your team in its beautiful new stadium next year!  Who knows, you might be the real "Home Team" in the SB two years from now!

"A" for coherency .

As you know I disagree with conclusion, but your argument is based on sound reasoning :)

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On 2/24/2017 at 8:34 PM, WhenFalconsWin said:

Ice has played better in his last 5 playoff games than most QBs have ever played.  

He sure has. 

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15 hours ago, NickMessina said:

Who wants to place bets on whether or not Matt Ryan is still playing in the NFL when he's 40? How about a bet whether or not Matt Ryan is playing in (and winning) a super bowl when he's 40? Any takers? 

I didn't think so. 

Anyone think he'll be remembered for anything other than that fumble? 

Dumbest post EVER on these boards.

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10 hours ago, middlegatv said:

Dumbest post EVER on these boards.

With a photo finish for the runner up- "Brady played better than Ryan played because Brady won."   

If any single factor can be pointed out for the outcome, its that  Falcons players outplayed the Patriots players and had the game won with an easy chip shot FG,  it that the Pats coaches outplayed the Falcons coaches.

The Patriots coaches beat the Falcons coaches by giving the game away with poor play calling and game management at end of game.

Falcons players did their jobs, Falcons coaches didn't.

That said, there were over 100 snaps in the game. A single play made or not made by ANY PLAYER ON THE FIELD on any of these snaps could have decided outcome in such a close game. Ryan was on field for less than half of them.

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Ryan played better than Brady, unless you credit Brady for the better play of his supporting cast which so many people emotionally do.

many people who know their stuff agree with my assessment

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7 hours ago, NickMessina said:

The best part: football players who've actually played in real life NFL games are almost universally saying Brady is the GOAT (Phil sims, Peyton Mannings recievers, Mike golich, etc). While some stat nerd on a forum online who is an uber fan of the losing Qb is trying to argue otherwise. (Madden on PlayStation and fantasy football don't count as actually playing an NFL game). That tells you something right there. 

 

Edited by Jetsfan25678

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Lets take a look at Ryan and Bradys  each QBs career playoff stats:

Ryan: 194 Attempts, 285 Completions, 68.1% Completion , 7.9 YPA,  18 TDs, 7 Ints, 102.4 QBR

Brady: 831 Attempts, 1325 Completions, 65.5 % Completion, 6.9 YPA, 63 TDs, 31 Interceptions, 89.0 QBR

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3 hours ago, gazoo said:

Lets take a look at Ryan and Bradys  each QBs career playoff stats:

Ryan: 194 Attempts, 285 Completions, 68.1% Completion , 7.9 YPA,  18 TDs, 7 Ints, 102.4 QBR

Brady: 831 Attempts, 1325 Completions, 65.5 % Completion, 6.9 YPA, 63 TDs, 31 Interceptions, 89.0 QBR

Haha, your still working at this!  Your misery is undeniably tasty!

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Let's  look at Ryan's 2016 post season numbers compared to Tom Bradys:

Ryan: 70 Attempts, 94 Completions, 71% Completion , 10.3 YPA, 9 TDs, 0 Ints, 135.3 QBR

Brady: 93 Attempts, 142 Completions, 65.5 % Completion, 8.0 YPA,  7 TDs, 3 Interceptions, 97.7 QBR (it was 76.6 in 2015 playoffs)

RYAN PLAYED BETTER IN 2016 PLAYOFFS THAN TOM BRADY HAS EVER PLAYED IN PLAYOFFS

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On 2/11/2017 at 2:57 PM, etherdome said:

Gazoo, you are right, Ryan played better playoff football than Brady.  

Undeniably

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On 2/11/2017 at 5:58 PM, Vandy said:

Matt's now 3rd ALL-TIME in QB Passer rating in playoffs. Brady is 13th.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career_playoffs.htm

Ryan's individual play stands out just as much as the play of Bradys teammates and coaches.

Now, if we can only get the rest of of teammand coaching staff to play at the same level Bradys has during his Super Bowl years we would be completely unbeatable. 

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Just now, NickMessina said:

You're going to have your heart broken again next year when ur one and done in the playoffs. At best. Brady will at a minimum be in the afc championship game. It's good being a pats fan. 

You have one ball the size of a pea.  The other is just an itty bitty one.

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