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De'Vondre Campbell


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2 hours ago, Waterjabbers said:

It's not that I want to trade Collins.  It's that Collins is the "unknown".  Meaning that of the three Collins is the least known quantity.  

I know what Trufant brings to the table and of the three he's the best corner we have.  So I can't see trading him unless I know that I have a replacement, and while Collins has looked good, he hasn't looked as good as Trufant.

And just to clear things up, I wish we could keep and play all three of them.  I see it as a kin to having Peyton Manning in his prime with a young Andrew Luck on the bench.  You know that Luck is a starter, you just don't have a starting position open.

He's actually made more plays than tru on  the ball in a smaller window this year. He is not an unknown anymore. NO's plan was to pick on Collins. The result was an int. Meanwhile Tampa bay picks on tru everytime we play. He's been abused in 3 of the 4 games by Evans. I like tru. He's my guy. But in this system Collins will be the man in a year or two.

 

How can you say Collins in an unknown and he's been  starting since tru went down and the defense has gotten better? He hasn't been a liability and we've played more man and excelled at it. The pass rush has been better because we can play more man. We played much more cover 3 with tru because bigger guys give him the business when they push him at the line. Now we play a great deal of cover 1.

 

Imo we're the best defense left in the playoffs and it's mainly because of Beasley, Jones, Neal, Campbell, Jarrett and Collins. He's gonna get picked on because they have to try but I've only seen him give up one deep play and that was to Seattle last week. And that was because he didn't get his hand on the guy at the line. 

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2 hours ago, Waterjabbers said:

I think you guys take this scheme fit thing too far.  If Dan Quinn's scheme relied so heavily on what you guys think are his prototypical corners so much, Robert Alford doesn't get resigned.

I get that you like Collins.  I like him too.  I'm just not willing to elevate the guy to a platform he isn't on.  

All is a physical corner. More physical than tru. He lacks the Length Quinn likes but he's every bit as physical as bigger guys. Tru has the length but not the physicality. Quinn loves toughess and alt passes his C/T test. Plus alf has a 40" vertical so he can make up for size. 

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1 hour ago, sanfranfalcon said:

all true. and i def think this is the way DQ prefers to play. but the team is playin' way more man now. and i think that has to do more with the growth of the D as opposed to Tru not bein' suited to play closer to the LOS. but it'll all show itself soon enough... 

It also has to do with bigger wr's manhandle tru in press man. That's why he plays off more. Trust me they won't throw a guy under the bus but there are reasons we are playing more man. We played man in the second half of the GB game and tru was healthy so that had nothing to do with young guys. The difference is GB doesn't have big physical wr's like Evans and Benjamin that will push tru around at the line. Tru has the lengthy but he's light in the @ss. And weighs more than tru and Poole is only 5'10 but weighs 205. Tru is only 190. That makes a difference when you're playing an Evans at the line. 

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41 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Collins is what Quinn wants in a corner....he picked Collins, he inherited Tru.

I hate to say it, but if anybody is gone, it's Tru.

And I don't think anybody wants tru to leave. He's a great player but at some point a decision has to be made. Do you sit a player on the rise on the bench and stop his development or do you send the already good player to another team so he can continue his promising career and keep developing you're rising star? 

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11 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

It also has to do with bigger wr's manhandle tru in press man. That's why he plays off more. Trust me they won't throw a guy under the bus but there are reasons we are playing more man. We played man in the second half of the GB game and tru was healthy so that had nothing to do with young guys. The difference is GB doesn't have big physical wr's like Evans and Benjamin that will push tru around at the line. Tru has the lengthy but he's light in the @ss. And weighs more than tru and Poole is only 5'10 but weighs 205. Tru is only 190. That makes a difference when you're playing an Evans at the line. 

again all true...BUT...in the GB game when we went man DQ coulda figured he 'had' to go man despite everything else. so i don't buy the more man scheme is solely due to Tru bein' out. now u might end up being right...but i'll have to see next year's shake-out before i'm sold. and to be fair Evans abused EVERYBODY but Collins...Benjamin not so much...

Edited by sanfranfalcon
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1 minute ago, TheFatboi said:

And I don't think anybody wants tru to leave. He's a great player but at some point a decision has to be made. Do you sit a player on the rise on the bench and stop his development or do you send the already good player to another team so he can continue his promising career and keep developing you're rising star? 

If there's a trade out there that is going to net us front 7 help in exchange for Tru, I have to strongly consider it.

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2 minutes ago, RoddyWhite84 said:

Look at the Packers and other teams that's has suffered due to lack of depth you can never have enough of it worse case the cream rises to the top you can hopefully stash some of in on the PS

We have that for the most part. The line is always the least on the roster because they never rotate. The only time a new player comes in is from injury so it wouldn't make sense to have 15 olinemen. We have good depth there tho. Finally. And it will get better with the competition Quinn likes to create. 

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1 minute ago, sanfranfalcon said:

again all true...BUT...in the GB game when we went man DQ coulda figured he 'had' to go man despite everything else. so i don't buy the more man scheme is solely due to Tru. now u might end up being right...but i'll have to see next year's shake-out before i'm sold. and to be fair Evans abused EVERYBODY but Collins...Benjamin not so much...

He abused tru until Collins came in and then they moved him on alf. It's a reason for that. They took advantage of physicality on tru and took advantage of height on alf. But it's definitely the reason we play more off coverage with tru. As most of the board knows I'm good friends with Asante. Believe me when I tell you they are putting players in best position to win so if you have a comer that's a good corner but struggles in press man with bigger guys why would you put him in cover 1 against those guys?? We played man to man against Tampa in game 2 WITH tru and the result was Evans abused him. Same young guys playing. Collins comes in and all of a sudden they switch him to matchup with alf? Same young guys tho. Plus the young guy argument doesn't hold because man to man is easier to play. Zone is very complicated. So wouldn't you want to be in man more if you're worried about youth?? Zone is what was getting picked apart with us. Not man. So that alone kills the youth argument. Trust me.  Quinn knows he can play more man simply because Collins, alf, and Poole are ALL physical corners. 

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12 minutes ago, fuego said:

I think Quinn is a great defensive evaluator. We'll see what Quinn thinks about the whole situation. Whatever he chooses, then I have faith in the direction he chose. He's proven himself in just 2 years as far as defense goes. 

One other point about this, I was reading and article about Quinn and in the article Blank was quoted as saying that Carrol told him that Quinn was a great player evaluator before we hired him. So it will be interesting to see what he chooses to do here. 

Blank has a greater comfort level about the stability and direction of his organization now than he has ever had, even during some of the extreme highs of the Michael Vick era and under Smith.

One reason is something Seattle coach Pete Carroll told him before Quinn was hired: “Pete told me that of all the coaches he worked with, Dan had an exceptional talent for player evaluation.”

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58 minutes ago, knomercy said:

Trufant is amazing but the fact is balancing the checkbook is just as important to the success of a football team as anything else.

If you can get 70% of the production at 10% of the price you have to consider it.

The problem occurs when you don't have a back-up plan -- like the Panthers and Norman. They let him walk & had no proven safety net.

Had they not resigned Alford I might agree with you, but after they resigned Alford the impression I got is that they like all four of these guys a lot.

It makes a lot more sense to pay Trufant and let Alford walk then it does to pay Alford and let Trufant walk.

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9 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

If there's a trade out there that is going to net us front 7 help in exchange for Tru, I have to strongly consider it.

Not sure. Unless it's an ace we hold up our sleeve come draft time some picks. That's when I'd pull the trigger for a tru trade. Unless we trade him for a player and future picks outside of the draft. I don't know if we trade him but some kind of decision is gonna have to be made. Belichik does this all the time. He cut Ty Law because Asante Samuel emerged. It's business 

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2 minutes ago, Waterjabbers said:

Had they not resigned Alford I might agree with you, but after they resigned Alford the impression I got is that they like all four of these guys a lot.

It makes a lot more sense to pay Trufant and let Alford walk then it does to pay Alford and let Trufant walk.

Actually it doesn't. The more physical corner is alf and he plays the style Quinn likes. Ty Law was a #1 corner like tru and after the emergence of Asante Samuel let law go. And this was AFTER they had just won a SB that ty had a pick 6 of Kurt Warner. If it's anything TD learned from belichik it's that any player can be replaced and you recycle older expensive players with young upcoming cheap players. 

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5 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Not sure. Unless it's an ace we hold up our sleeve come draft time some picks. That's when I'd pull the trigger for a tru trade. Unless we trade him for a player and future picks outside of the draft. I don't know if we trade him but some kind of decision is gonna have to be made. Belichik does this all the time. He cut Ty Law because Asante Samuel emerged. It's business 

What do you say if the Jets come calling and are willing to swap 1sts for Tru? We jump into the top 10....

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30 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

He's actually made more plays than tru on  the ball in a smaller window this year. He is not an unknown anymore. NO's plan was to pick on Collins. The result was an int. Meanwhile Tampa bay picks on tru everytime we play. He's been abused in 3 of the 4 games by Evans. I like tru. He's my guy. But in this system Collins will be the man in a year or two.

 

How can you say Collins in an unknown and he's been  starting since tru went down and the defense has gotten better? He hasn't been a liability and we've played more man and excelled at it. The pass rush has been better because we can play more man. We played much more cover 3 with tru because bigger guys give him the business when they push him at the line. Now we play a great deal of cover 1.

 

Imo we're the best defense left in the playoffs and it's mainly because of Beasley, Jones, Neal, Campbell, Jarrett and Collins. He's gonna get picked on because they have to try but I've only seen him give up one deep play and that was to Seattle last week. And that was because he didn't get his hand on the guy at the line. 

I say that Collins is an unknown because he's been solid since Tru went down but couldn't get on the field until Tru went down.  I want to see a full season before we trade our best corner away.

The arguement that we played more cover 3 with Trufant doesn't hold water with me.  We have a young linebacking core that was hurt for a lot of the first half of the season.  Neal didn't play his first game until week 3.  So as a unit it took more time to gel and learn to communicate. There are a lot of other reasons we played more cover 3.

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7 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

What do you say if the Jets come calling and are willing to swap 1sts for Tru? We jump into the top 10....

I say pull that trigger if there is a guy that fits what Quinn likes in the system. Has all the traits he likes for a DT or a DE. BUT I'd swap 1st's and also ask for a 2nd or a 3rd. 

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20 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

He abused tru until Collins came in and then they moved him on alf. It's a reason for that. They took advantage of physicality on tru and took advantage of height on alf. But it's definitely the reason we play more off coverage with tru. As most of the board knows I'm good friends with Asante. Believe me when I tell you they are putting players in best position to win so if you have a comer that's a good corner but struggles in press man with bigger guys why would you put him in cover 1 against those guys?? We played man to man against Tampa in game 2 WITH tru and the result was Evans abused him. Same young guys playing. Collins comes in and all of a sudden they switch him to matchup with alf? Same young guys tho. Plus the young guy argument doesn't hold because man to man is easier to play. Zone is very complicated. So wouldn't you want to be in man more if you're worried about youth?? Zone is what was getting picked apart with us. Not man. So that alone kills the youth argument. Trust me.  Quinn knows he can play more man simply because Collins, alf, and Poole are ALL physical corners. 

so now you are sayin' we were in zone because of Tru? i don't buy that. and yes the zone was getting picked apart by Rodgers and it's gotta be more difficult to play, no doubt. but DQ chose that as his base defensive scheme to start the year. and i doubt that's all on Tru's lack of physicalness in press man coverage. i do think Collins is what DQ wants in his CBs tho. but my bet is if all things had been ideal to start season we woulda seen Collins at RCB and Tru at left. the question is man or zone? and remember Alford had issues with penalties at start of season too. so there were trust issues with him on the right side to start. but it'll all show itself soon...i'm diggin' the growth of the D tho...especially with all the injuries!!!

Edited by sanfranfalcon
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1 minute ago, TheFatboi said:

I say pull that trigger if there is a guy that fits what Quinn likes in the system. Has all the traits he likes for a DT or a DE. BUT I'd swap 1st's and also ask for a 2nd or a 3rd. 

I don't know if they'd do all that. That's going to be a gigantic jump already. We had to pay a ton to go from 24 to 6. This is a similar jump.

I think FS Malik Hooker and DE Derek Barnett would both be terrific fits in Quinns defense. Barnett honestly reminds me of Bennett to sound cliche....he can do it all. Rush from the inside, from the outside. Don't matter. He can play all 4 spots on the line.

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