To all those suggesting we use our 1st pick on a safety

[ShanghaiDirtyBird]

Y'all is crazy. Did you see Ricardo Allen out there?

We need a DT

[MSalmon]

2 minutes ago, ShanghaiDirtyBird said:

Y'all is crazy. Did you see Ricardo Allen out there?

We need a DT

Nope. He played well, but I'd still take a Eric Berry, Malik Hooker or Jamal Adams over Rico any day. Even Marcus Mayes is better.

thay said,I still think Rico has a vital role as a extra CB and third safety.

but if you think for a moment that an elite safety wouldn't impact this defense more than a DT--I think you need to look no further than Seattle for evidence.

now if you're talking pass rusher, then it's a debate. But even then a truly elite FS makes that zone work and frees up the DL to take chances.

 

[ShanghaiDirtyBird]

3 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

Nope. He played well, but I'd still take a Eric Berry, Malik Hooker or Jamal Adams over Rico any day. Even Marcus Mayes is better.

thay said,I still think Rico has a vital role as a extra CB and third safety.

but if you think for a moment that an elite safety wouldn't impact this defense more than a DT--I think you need to look no further than Seattle for evidence.

now if you're talking pass rusher, then it's a debate. But even then a truly elite FS makes that zone work and frees up the DL to take chances.

 

For the record, I don't mind at all when people disagree with me...if they have something smart to say. I think you made a great argument. Just some other people want to be snarky or say stupid things and it annoys me. You made very good points, it's hard to say for sure.

[Culain_04]

I personally would rather add a Pass rush DT,  But with that said I'm good with whatever Quinn & Dimm pick. they have shown they know way more than I do.

[AmaZze]

Need another pass rusher. Vic was either held, chipped, or double teamed every play. It was absurd considering you'd think he'd get the benefit of the doubt being the NFL sack leader.

[QuinnTorris]

We still need a FS. 

[falcndave]

13 minutes ago, AmaZze said:

Need another pass rusher. Vic was either held, chipped, or double teamed every play. It was absurd considering you'd think he'd get the benefit of the doubt being the NFL sack leader.

Actually, the pass rush was VERY effective yesterday. We got INTs instead of sacks. If a QB is chucking ducks while running for his life, mission accomplished. I'm not going to say Smitty was right, but there is more to it than sack numbers when evaluating a pass rush. Disrupt the QB, good things happen. I'm looking for DT this season. I want someone who can stand up to the run and bring interior pressure. Fairly is a guy I'd considered. His previous reputation may keep him affordable. If he gets too expensive, work some of that draft magic and keep adding young talent. 

[MSalmon]

20 minutes ago, ShanghaiDirtyBird said:

For the record, I don't mind at all when people disagree with me...if they have something smart to say. I think you made a great argument. Just some other people want to be snarky or say stupid things and it annoys me. You made very good points, it's hard to say for sure.

Thank you! It's still not a slam dunk that FS is the target, but a perfect offseason for me would be sign Eric Berry, and Ron Leary (G), and maybe a DT like Abry Jobes or a true NT in Sylvester Williams, trade up and grab Tim Williams--add another edge guy. And maybe in third round (I'm thinking 2nd round goes in trade up) grab another interior guy.

or in another scenario, still sign Leary or Zeitler, sign Sylvester Williams and Abry Jones. Somehow lure Calais Campbell from Arizona. Then trade up and get either Jamamal Adams or Malik Hooker. Then come back in third round abd add a guy like Devonte Adams in 3rd

[droopy1592]

39 minutes ago, ShanghaiDirtyBird said:

Y'all is crazy. Did you see Ricardo Allen out there?

We need a DT

I honestly agree. Berry takes lots of risk but he has a pass rush that makes it worth gambling. We need a pocket crashing DT to give our pass rush more bite. It seems that a good all around pocket pushing, penetrating, run stopping Dt should be on our priority list. Our secondary is becoming stellar and could take another jump if QBs had less time to throw, have a less stable pocket, and our run defense improved. if our offense is still crushing it next year, a DT is what we need. 

Edited January 15, 2017 by droopy1592

[wordtobigbird]

8 minutes ago, falcndave said:

Actually, the pass rush was VERY effective yesterday. We got INTs instead of sacks. If a QB is chucking ducks while running for his life, mission accomplished. I'm not going to say Smitty was right, but there is more to it than sack numbers when evaluating a pass rush. Disrupt the QB, good things happen. I'm looking for DT this season. I want someone who can stand up to the run and bring interior pressure. Fairly is a guy I'd considered. His previous reputation may keep him affordable. If he gets too expensive, work some of that draft magic and keep adding young talent. 

I was trying to get this point across to the people I was watching with. They were annoyed that he escaped the pocket but having him run for his life is step 1, then the sacks piled up in the 2nd half when running was getting him LIT up.

[MSalmon]

21 minutes ago, Culain_04 said:

I personally would rather add a Pass rush DT,  But with that said I'm good with whatever Quinn & Dimm pick. they have shown they know way more than I do.

I'll say this adding a truly elite guy who can play the edge and interior would be great. But a pass rushing DT is really hard to find. Just not many warren Sapp, and Aaron Donald types. I think Solomon Thomas could be a Michael Bennett type. But there are a couple of serious FS prospects in this draft. 

Malik Hooker is the perfect fit and Jamal Adams is the very close runner up.

i also love Marcus Mayes who could be there at our pick, but he's not the caliber of hooker and Adams.

Jonathan Allen is probably the guy you're describing but you're talking a guy who might be number 1 or 2 overall in the draft. If you think we paid a lot for Julio, there's no telling what it'd cost to go get him

i think either Adams or Hooker (prolly Adams) could slip down to the Browns second first round pick. They need a lot, so I could see a trade up there.

i really like Tim Williams as well, but again, like Thomas you're trading up.

itll be an interesting draft, but if I were Quinn--which I'm obviously not--I know that I can make stars out of of mid round picks in the DL (check his past players and where drafted) but that FS who covers like a CB and hits like a missile and can play all alone up high is a rare commodity. If I view hooker or Adams, or even think Berry as a FA is that "guy" I'm going all in to add that piece

[JC Falcon]

Get whomever is best value.  If there is a guy you value, get him, regardless what others think.  (See: Keanu Neal).

We have opportunities to improve at FS and DT and DE opposite Beasley.  Remember Babs and Freeney will be a year older and might retire after a Super Bowl!

I think we let the draft and free agency come to us before we lock in a position.  This time last year, C was a huge need, but we killed that in free agency.

[MSalmon]

7 minutes ago, droopy1592 said:

I honestly agree. Berry takes lots of risk but he has a pass rush that makes it worth gambling. We need a pocket crashing DT to give our pass rush more bite. It seems that a good all around pocket pushing, penetrating, run stopping Dt should be on our priority list. Our secondary is becoming stellar and could take another jump if QBs had less time to throw, have a less stable pocket, and our run defense improved. if our offense is still crushing it next year, a DT is what we need. 

Do we need DT? Sure, but there are multiple ways to add DTs that do t cost an arm and a leg. Jonathan Allen who might be a hybrid DE/DT is really the best in this draft,mbut it is a draft loaded with good interior guys from rounds 3 down and a good FA market. 

but the guy you're describing which resembles Sapp, K. Short (will he be available?) or Aaron Donald isn't really there very often in draft. Nor is it required in Quinn's defense. Look at his past rosters and see were his interior guys were drafted. Highest round pick on his Seattle rosters were 3rd rounders (Mebane and Hill); but that truly elite FS and bone crushing SS (which we have) and stud MLB , mixed with physical cbs (which we have) really make  his defenses hum.

that lockdown zone makes every thing better

[Falcon Fred]

Would be happy if we drafted Eddie Jackson in the 2nd or 3rd..  but we need a DT, RG and TE over a FS...  And depth at LB would be nice..

[1989Fan]

I would still like to see FS upgraded. DTs played very well today also. But it goes beyond this game...We need BOTH, but likely a DT more w Babs deal up.

That said, this scheme is built around an elite FS. Seeing how much SEA has fell of w/o Thomas, should show us just how much better we could be with a talent like Thomas!

[FalconsAirMiles]

I think we should draft someone who plays the Leo position. Let Brooks Reed and him rotate so we a fresh guy every down 

Edited January 15, 2017 by FalconsAirMiles

[MSalmon]

2 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

I would still like to see FS upgraded. DTs played very well today also. But it goes beyond this game...We need BOTH, but likely a DT more w Babs deal up.

That said, this scheme is built around an elite FS. Seeing how much SEA has fell of w/o Thomas, should show us just how much better we could be with a talent like Thomas!

I agree. Although, I do have complete faith in Quinn.

but for the record I think Rico is still a vital cog in the defense going forward. Limit his range some and he's a good player. He's a great hybrid CB/FS that can be used in various formations as extra CB or safety.

lets just say we got either Berry (FA), Hooker or Adams (trade up) or Mayes (in first round no trade up). Now look at this depth chart in secondary.:

FS: Berry or draft pick that I mentioned and Rico

SS: Neal, Ishmael or my surprise 4th rounder Harvey-Clemons (who can play LB too)

CB: Trufant, Poole, otoyae

CB: Collins, Alford, Akeem King or Goodwin 

plus you have Rico added in the CB mix as well. That's a deep and talented secondary!

[MSalmon]

3 minutes ago, FalconsAirMiles said:

I think we should draft someone who plays the Leo position. Let Brooks Reed and him rotate so we a fresh guy every down 

I think we will, I'm not sure it has to be a high pick unless they fall in love with say a Tim Williams 

[Kaptain Krazy]

My hope is that QDP compare the best FA offerings vs draft prospects at the two biggest positions of need on the D -  FS and DT. Pick the best prospect with the 32nd pick after having signed the best FA option at the other.

[MSalmon]

1 minute ago, Kaptain Krazy said:

My hope is that QDP compare the best FA offerings vs draft prospects at the two biggest positions of need on the D -  FS and DT. Pick the best prospect with the 32nd pick after having signed the best FA option at the other.

I think you just raised the best decision point facing the Falcons. Do they stand pat and pick at the 29-32 range or go up and add a truly elite prospect be it EDGE, interior hybrid guy like Allen or Thomas or elite FS.

there are good interior DL guys that fit our system as decent FA deals. But Pass rusher and FS are both tough FA fills. You're paying Berry huge money and FA pass rushers cost a ton as well. Draft picks are cheap contracts.

i look at our depth and were great at CB, need to add LBs but that's achievable inFA as is DT...pass rusher and FS are hard if you want elite and maintain an economic balance

in the range were picking truly it's a tough ride to add impact of either FS or edge. Marcus Mayes strikes me as an upgrade to Rico but he could climb post combine.

there is a huge gap between the truly elite DL in top half of draft and where were picking. The guys we could choose from don't separate themselves from the mid round guys as much 

and frankly I think Hageman is really ascending. He's been playing excellent as of late. Yesterday he was everything we hoped he'd be

[Culain_04]

27 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

I'll say this adding a truly elite guy who can play the edge and interior would be great. But a pass rushing DT is really hard to find. Just not many warren Sapp, and Aaron Donald types. I think Solomon Thomas could be a Michael Bennett type. But there are a couple of serious FS prospects in this draft. 

Malik Hooker is the perfect fit and Jamal Adams is the very close runner up.

i also love Marcus Mayes who could be there at our pick, but he's not the caliber of hooker and Adams.

Jonathan Allen is probably the guy you're describing but you're talking a guy who might be number 1 or 2 overall in the draft. If you think we paid a lot for Julio, there's no telling what it'd cost to go get him

i think either Adams or Hooker (prolly Adams) could slip down to the Browns second first round pick. They need a lot, so I could see a trade up there.

i really like Tim Williams as well, but again, like Thomas you're trading up.

itll be an interesting draft, but if I were Quinn--which I'm obviously not--I know that I can make stars out of of mid round picks in the DL (check his past players and where drafted) but that FS who covers like a CB and hits like a missile and can play all alone up high is a rare commodity. If I view hooker or Adams, or even think Berry as a FA is that "guy" I'm going all in to add that piece

Thanks for the info, i'll have to do some research on those players. I want them to pick the BPA, I do think you win and lose in the trenches though.  

I didn't think we paid too much for Julio, but i don't want to do that again as DQ has shown he can actually coach.

[Kaptain Krazy]

3 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

I think you just raised the best decision point facing the Falcons. Do they stand pat and pick at the 29-32 range or go up and add a truly elite prospect be it EDGE, interior hybrid guy like Allen or Thomas or elite FS.

there are good interior DL guys that fit our system as decent FA deals. But Pass rusher and FS are both tough FA fills. You're paying Berry huge money and FA pass rushers cost a ton as well. Draft picks are cheap contracts.

i look at our depth and were great at CB, need to add LBs but that's achievable inFA as is DT...pass rusher and FS are hard if you want elite and maintain an economic balance

in the range were picking truly it's a tough ride to add impact of either FS or edge. Marcus Mayes strikes me as an upgrade to Rico but he could climb post combine.

there is a huge gap between the truly elite DL in top half of draft and where were picking. The guys we could choose from don't separate themselves from the mid round guys as much 

and frankly I think Hageman is really ascending. He's been playing excellent as of late. Yesterday he was everything we hoped he'd be

Given how good recent drafts have been and where the Falcons are as a franchise, ATL may finally be at the point to truly draft BPA in the 1st round. More quality depth to the 2-deep.

[MSalmon]

4 minutes ago, Culain_04 said:

Thanks for the info, i'll have to do some research on those players. I want them to pick the BPA, I do think you win and lose in the trenches though.  

I didn't think we paid too much for Julio, but i don't want to do that again as DQ has shown he can actually coach.

You're welcome and it's truly a great discussion 

[Steel City Falcon]

DT or DE is the biggest need. Need to have more push up front. Than I would go with a stud at Guard because Chester isn't getting any younger. FS might be 3rd after those are addressed.

[JDaveG]

My thing with safety is simple -- I don't mind if they use a 1st rounder to upgrade that position because it can be upgraded.  I also don't mind if they use the 1st rounder to get a DT (or DE, or OLB, or CB, or TE, or whatever) because all of those positions can be upgraded too.  The bigger thing for me is trying to get the best value for the pick, which means the staff has to evaluate the roster for potential upgrades and decide which position can be upgraded the easiest with which pick.

FA also has to be taken into account.

I like Rico Allen.  But his position is high on my list of positions that could be upgraded in the offseason.  I'd love him to prove me wrong though.