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Kurt Warner & Rosenthal's Top QBs of 2016


Godzilla1985
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45 minutes ago, nomak said:

Andrew Luck at 4...LOL!  Another reason I pay no attention to these "experts." 

I was so confused. I didn't even notice the article below the video. 

 

Andrew Luck might be the most overrated player of the decade. He has all the tools to be great, but man, the nut hugging over him is mind-boggling. 

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22 minutes ago, paulitik said:

I was so confused. I didn't even notice the article below the video. 

 

Andrew Luck might be the most overrated player of the decade. He has all the tools to be great, but man, the nut hugging over him is mind-boggling. 

thank you...

I do see the potential in Andrew Luck and he is a good player but he gets accolades and credit cor things he has not yet done!

earn it on the dayum field!

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16 minutes ago, FentayeJones said:

Yeah I agree with all about Luck. He's a very good player but he was anointed before he ever did anything.

And when he plays bad it's everybody's fault but his. It's amazing the excuses that are offered up for him regardless of how he plays. If that was Matt he wouldn't even be close to anybody's radar. His name would NEVER come up. 

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9 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Andrew Luck has been absolutely fantastic this year. That dude is doing it by his lonesome. 

He's had a good but far from a "fantastic" year.  His team finished 8-8 and failed to win the weakest division in the NFL (which is not even remotely debatable).  His only decent win was against GB when they were in a serious funk.   Overall the Colts had a VERY favorable schedule & they couldn't break 500 with the anointed one at QB.

Its always the same narrative with him "he's doing it by himself".  

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He said at 33 PPg the Falcons have the most prolific offense in the NFL this year. 

You have to wonder if these pundits visit our boards from time to time. I've heard several pundits apply the term "prolific" to our offense this year. I've also seen many of the exact arguments many of our message boarders have presented to back up Matty Ice and MVP.

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2 minutes ago, gazoo said:

He said at 33 PPg the Falcons have the most prolific offense in the NFL this year. 

You have to wonder if these pundits visit our boards from time to time. I've heard several pundits apply the term "prolific" to our offense this year.

You're something else man. Always entertaining at the very least.

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4 minutes ago, Jpowers said:

You're something else man. Always entertaining at the very least.

You have to ask yourself why they keep using that exact term to define it. There are many ways to describe our offense but that's the 4th time I've heard a pundit use that exact term. You also have to notice how many of the exact arguments many have been making here for Ryan MVP have been parroted by many of the pundits where only two weeks ago these exact arguments were nonexistent accept here on the boards.

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22 minutes ago, Godzilla1985 said:

He's had a good but far from a "fantastic" year.  His team finished 8-8 and failed to win the weakest division in the NFL (which is not even remotely debatable).  His only decent win was against GB when they were in a serious funk.   Overall the Colts had a VERY favorable schedule & they couldn't break 500 with the anointed one at QB.

Its always the same narrative with him "he's doing it by himself".  

No, he was fantastic. I understand that his team wasn't very good. I get that the division was winnable. That doesnt mean that he wasnt terrific. 

And it's always the same narrative because it remains true. That team simply isn't well-run. Their recipe isnt working and it's going to cost Luck his prime. 

We've seen first-hand what happens when a given model isn't working despite having a very good QB under center. We have to stop using lack of team success against QBs. In a league engineered to create parity and rapid roster turnover, it just isnt fair to hold one dude accountable for the successes or failures of ~75-100 other people. 

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35 minutes ago, fuego said:

And when he plays bad it's everybody's fault but his. It's amazing the excuses that are offered up for him regardless of how he plays. If that was Matt he wouldn't even be close to anybody's radar. His name would NEVER come up. 

No, when he plays poorly he should be called out for playing poorly. Last year, he struggled considerably. This year, he was very good. Top 5 type year. 

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6 minutes ago, gazoo said:

You have to ask yourself why they keep using that exact term to define it. There are many ways to describe our offense but that's the 4th time I've heard a pundit use that exact term. You also have to notice how many of the exact arguments many have been making here for Ryan MVP have been parroted by many of the pundits where only two weeks ago these exact arguments were nonexistent accept here on the boards.

They used that term a lot when describing the Broncos offense in 2014. You aren't getting credit for that one Gaz. :D

 

They are starting to sound like us because they have been forced to pay attention to us now and they are seeing what a lot of us have been seeing for a good while now. I'm sure there are a few who do visit message boards and such though. I'd bet whatever you want that Jamie Dukes did back when he was on 92.9.

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54 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Andrew Luck has been absolutely fantastic this year. That dude is doing it by his lonesome. 

What exactly is he doing by his lonesome? Put up good numbers? He costs his team because it seemingly takes him a whole quarter to start playing well. He usually rebounds to have a good game, but his play in the 1st and 2nd quarter of games doomed his team alot more often than it should have and probably cost his team a playoff berth. 

The guy is no doubt a great young QB, but he's not Top 5 this year. Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger. Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Matt Ryan are the Top 5 in that orders (5 to 1)

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12 minutes ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

What exactly is he doing by his lonesome? Put up good numbers? He costs his team because it seemingly takes him a whole quarter to start playing well. He usually rebounds to have a good game, but his play in the 1st and 2nd quarter of games doomed his team alot more often than it should have and probably cost his team a playoff berth. 

The guy is no doubt a great young QB, but he's not Top 5 this year. Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger. Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Matt Ryan are the Top 5 in that orders (5 to 1)

Luck was better than Roethlisberger this year. You can make the argument for Derek Carr pushing Luck to 6 but even that is questionable. 

The numbers result from him being very good, they don't MAKE him very good. They are a product, not the cause. 

The guy shows it on the field. He isnt a perfect QB...no one is. But at this point, the anti-Luck backlash has actually made him underrated. 

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1 minute ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Luck was better than Roethlisberger this year. You can make the argument for Derek Carr pushing Luck to 6 but even that is questionable. 

The numbers result from him being very good, they don't MAKE him very good. They are a product, not the cause. 

The guy shows it on the field. He isnt a perfect QB...no one is. But at this point, the anti-Luck backlash has actually made him underrated. 

You'd be hard pressed to find that many people who think poorly of Luck. He's universally liked. He was hated here due to him being ranked ahead of Matt in years past which was ridiculous. He's had one really good year, two bad ones and 2 good one yet he's top 5 just about every year. Thats why some folks dont like him.

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1 hour ago, gazoo said:

He said at 33 PPg the Falcons have the most prolific offense in the NFL this year. 

You have to wonder if these pundits visit our boards from time to time. I've heard several pundits apply the term "prolific" to our offense this year. I've also seen many of the exact arguments many of our message boarders have presented to back up Matty Ice and MVP.

Yeah, not in 2012, not 2010. This season, 2016. Any team that averages over 30 points a game will be considered prolific. I think most people agreed with that--you're the one that tried to argue that any offense ranked in the top 10 in any category is prolific.

Nobody was calling the Falcons offense of 2012 or 2010 prolific at those points in time, except maybe you.

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10 hours ago, JerseyNo12 said:

Yeah, not in 2012, not 2010. This season, 2016. Any team that averages over 30 points a game will be considered prolific. I think most people agreed with that--you're the one that tried to argue that any offense ranked in the top 10 in any category is prolific.

Nobody was calling the Falcons offense of 2012 or 2010 prolific at those points in time, except maybe you.

Your comments are gross distortions of my past statements.

Here's one thing we know for sure, you had not a clue our offense had this kind of potential. 

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3 hours ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

No, he was fantastic. I understand that his team wasn't very good. I get that the division was winnable. That doesnt mean that he wasnt terrific. 

And it's always the same narrative because it remains true. That team simply isn't well-run. Their recipe isnt working and it's going to cost Luck his prime. 

We've seen first-hand what happens when a given model isn't working despite having a very good QB under center. We have to stop using lack of team success against QBs. In a league engineered to create parity and rapid roster turnover, it just isnt fair to hold one dude accountable for the successes or failures of ~75-100 other people. 

I completely agree.  It seems that the QB (especially Matt Ryan) gets all the blame despite evidence to the contrary.  My problem is Luck is NEVER held accountable for holes he's dug his team in with turn overs & is given far to much credit for ANY hint of success.  The narrative for Luck has always been "its someone elses fault" while some of the same folks that say the polar opposite about other, equally good QBs (Ryan, Eli Manning to an extent).  I'd argue there are only 4 QBs that had fantastic years: Ryan, Brady, Rodgers & Brees. 

Edited by Godzilla1985
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3 hours ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

You'd be hard pressed to find that many people who think poorly of Luck. He's universally liked. He was hated here due to him being ranked ahead of Matt in years past which was ridiculous. He's had one really good year, two bad ones and 2 good one yet he's top 5 just about every year. Thats why some folks dont like him.

I don't hate Luck.  I just think he is seriously overrated compared to the hype that surrounds him.  I remember there was an article in 2012 proclaiming he would win more SBs than Peyton Manning and others debating whether he was better than AR & Brady.  This is BEFORE he took his first snap.  His <60% completion percentage, 87 PR for his 5 year career does not scream GOAT like many pundits have claimed. 

I get it.  There are QBs that the media swoons over and this whole MVP race that shouldn't be one with Brady & Rodgers vs Ryan is a perfect example but at least Brady & Rodgers have rings.  What does Luck have other than a "2014 AFC Championship Participation Banner" to warrant the nauseating love he always seems to get? 

Edited by Godzilla1985
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For me, it's about his stand-alone abilities. That's what I look at. What is he capable of and what does he do snap to snap, game to game. The other stuff is beyond my consideration. I can't judge a guy differential because he benefits or is harmed because of a narrative people are driving. I find that most narratives are over-simplified and bogus in any event. The world is mighty complex and people rarely want to acknowledge that. 

 

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