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The Trump Presidency


silentbob1272
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9 minutes ago, achilles return said:

challenging your statements with thoughtful questions isn't playing 'gotcha'. if your input is to merely tell us what you 'fundamentally disagree' without bothering to engage in a discussion about which you disagree, then this is merely a waste of everyone's time. don't offer your thoughts if you don't plan to defend them.

This is why libertarians are full of nonsense. They can't actually say what they do or do not believe in, simply because it makes them look crazy either way.

 

Look at their views on drugs. They would be completely cool with legalizing all drug use. When pressed about things like Meth, they have to back-track. They get caught every presidential cycle with it...

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2 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

PG is my dude, smug as he may be, but him snarkily telling me that I should have either bought back my dad's guitars or gotten new ones is the most offensive thing that's ever been said to me on here.  It might not make sense to anyone but me, but one of the few things my dad and I shared was music and guitars, and while we didn't have the greatest relationship always, we always had that in common.  I remember him and honor him daily by playing his guitars. 

And I've had all kinds of horrible things lobbed at me over the years by snak, wfw, sobeit, etc. . ., but that took the cake. 

i can't pretend to speak for my rushmore bro, but thomas paine was primarily concerned with passive income generated from owning landed property. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrarian_Justice

even socialists recognize the difference between personal and private property (capital).

your guitars are safe, have no fear.

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19 minutes ago, Dago 3.0 said:
 
white supremacy certainly qualifies
 
i·de·ol·o·gy
ˌīdēˈäləjē,ˌidēˈäləjē/
noun
 
  1. 1.
    a system of ideas and ideals, especially one that forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.
    "the ideology of republicanism"
    synonyms:

    beliefs, ideas, ideals, principles, ethics, morals; More

Alright, now that we've established that you do not know the difference between parties and ideology:

The core ideology of the Democratic Party was indeed made up of Southern white supremacy throughout the 1800s and early 1900s. However, that had been phased out starting in the 1930s with the election of FDR through the 70s as the core ideology was replaced with social democracy. That then faded back in favor of neoliberalism starting in the late 1980s and really taking effect in the early 90s. Now we're seeing a tussle between neoliberalism as social democrats and, increasingly, democratic socialists try to take control of the party.

Same party, multiple ideologies.

Ok, I think we've established that. Now we can move onto ideologies. As the definition you posted pointed out, an ideology is, "a system of ideas and ideals." There is concreteness to this. It is not like you can take an ideology and change its core principles and still call it that ideology as you can with political parties. That is why you can point to the beliefs and history of an ideology and safely say that it is the same now as it was years, decades, even centuries ago. For example, it is safe to say the libertarians of the 1960s believed in unrestricted markets like the libertarians of today do.

That brings me back to my original point: Libertarians (small 'l' variety) routinely champion Adam Smith as a bedrock figure of their ideology due to some of the economic philosophies he championed. However, they also ignore many other things he championed (eg. how he wanted to treat inheritance) because they are not convenient to their philosophy. At the end of the day this is just a propaganda tool that libertarians use to lend age and credence to their philosophy, much as they do with the Founders. In reality the foundation lies with Ayn Rand, who went the route of extreme individualism due to her hatred of communism, and Rose Wilder Lane, who was a deeply bitter farm girl who hated FDR and the New Deal because she felt like it was destroying the identity of the rugged American individual even though she and her family took advantage what it had to offer whenever they could.

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15 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

PG is my dude, smug as he may be, but him snarkily telling me that I should have either bought back my dad's guitars or gotten new ones is the most offensive thing that's ever been said to me on here.  It might not make sense to anyone but me, but one of the few things my dad and I shared was music and guitars, and while we didn't have the greatest relationship always, we always had that in common.  I remember him and honor him daily by playing his guitars. 

And I've had all kinds of horrible things lobbed at me over the years by snak, wfw, sobeit, etc. . ., but that took the cake. 

My bad.

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4 hours ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

It would have been nice if Founders like Thomas Paine won out regarding inheritance. He wanted the government to seize all assets when someone died, sell them off, and distribute that wealth to the rest of the population... an idea he got from libertarian ubermensch Adam Smith.

I guess the other Founders, who were almost all aristocrats and business magnates, really wanted to keep the aristocratic system.

As much of a socialist/liberal as I am I would not agree with that. If I died I would not want my stuff sold and distributed while my wife and 7 year old son ended up on the street tossed from my house.

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13 minutes ago, MAD597 said:

As much of a socialist/liberal as I am I would not agree with that. If I died I would not want my stuff sold and distributed while my wife and 7 year old son ended up on the street tossed from my house.

It was hyperbole to poke fun at our resident libertarians that some of their homeboys (eg. Smith, the Founders) had radically different opinions than them regarding estates.

Obviously Paine's proposals were not adopted since they could be described as a tad extreme.

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41 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

This is a deeply offensive idea to me, I'm not trying to be mealy-mouthed here - anyone who thinks I should have handed my father's guitars, amps, guns, etc . . . over the the government after his death in 2011, and then buy them back, can, and should, go **** themselves. 

Yea I can't get on board with this. I'm ok with Estate tax but not total redistribution of my assets after I die.

My wife is in her mid 30's and my son is 7. If I died my possessions should go to her and him so they can actually live and support themselves if I die.

If the Gov. wants to tax large estates to redistribute it like they do now that's fine but to completely remove the possibility of sons/daughters/spouses having family assets handed down is ridiculous and goes way to far in my book.

 

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1 minute ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

It was hyperbole to poke fun at our resident libertarians that some of their homeboys (eg. Smith, the Founders) had radically different opinions than them regarding estates.

Obviously Paine's proposals were not adopted since they could be described as a tad extreme.

Yea no crap, I think I did find a limit to my extreme left leaning though. No way I would support something like that.

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48 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

"Every piece of property and every family heirloom"...no.  That's not what's being discussed.  What's being discussed is a complete elimination of the estate tax despite it being an effective tool at promoting one of libertarianism's core principles, economic meritocracy.

 

Estate Tax that kicks in over a certain limit yes A-OK, over 1 million tax it. Even 500K which it has been before I did not really approve of.

Anything under that could really hurt a family whose bread winner just died leaving the rest of the family scrambling and in further despair after having to deal with an important family loss. I would find that to be cruel.

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1 minute ago, dmo_dlo said:

I dunno maybe that's normal I have no idea but we essentially have a lobbyist in control of the EPA and I have no doubt he'd like to better secure his office to prevent all these leaks that he's (predictably) been handing out political favors to all his old friends.

Pruitt is probably the first guy I think off when I hear "drain the swamp"

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1 minute ago, AF89 said:

I dunno maybe that's normal I have no idea but we essentially have a lobbyist in control of the EPA and I have no doubt he'd like to better secure his office to prevent all these leaks that he's (predictably) been handing out political favors to all his old friends.

Pruitt is probably the first guy I think off when I hear "drain the swamp"

It's certainly not normal; this is one of the government agencies where full and absolute transparency is in order. In the long run, he's probably the most damaging person in this administration. He's like the villain straight out of comic books. Some of the things he's doing is just awful, even by this administration's standards!!

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5 hours ago, MAD597 said:

Estate Tax that kicks in over a certain limit yes A-OK, over 1 million tax it. Even 500K which it has been before I did not really approve of.

Anything under that could really hurt a family whose bread winner just died leaving the rest of the family scrambling and in further despair after having to deal with an important family loss. I would find that to be cruel.

I could be wrong but I had a lawyer tell me after my mom died that if it wasn't over 5 mil not to worry about it.

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1 hour ago, MAD597 said:

is that real? Can some pull out a **** MAP and show him PR is part of America and those suffering are American citizens?

It's from fake Trump tweet dot com.  Problem is Trout kinda made it maybe a little too realistic for Trump's standards :lol:

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