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Fake news...a warning.


Leon Troutsky
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Just now, Flip Flop said:

So, what has changed.  These fake news stories have been around forever.  Before the internet you could find them in magazines and newsletters.  Why the sudden concern about fake news?

Fake news has always been around. The difference is now it's very lucrative. Every page click is $$$ and there are no shortage of morons willing to believe any story that fits their pre-existing worldview.

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2 minutes ago, Gritzblitz 2.0 said:

Fake news has always been around. The difference is now it's very lucrative. Every page click is $$$ and there are no shortage of morons willing to believe any story that fits their pre-existing worldview.

Ok.  So, why is it the big story today.  There has been big money per click for years.  Why is everyone talking about fake news now, instead of say, ten years ago?

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1 minute ago, Flip Flop said:

Ok.  So, why is it the big story today.  There has been big money per click for years.  Why is everyone talking about fake news now, instead of say, ten years ago?

Because there was a huge proliferation of these stories this election cycle.  We haven't seen the kind of outright lies and fake news...spread by surrogates of a presidential campaign and even by a major party candidate himself...so prolific and central during a presidential campaign.  And it's concerning because now the majority of people get most of their political news from Facebook.  It's no longer on the fringe...fake news has become mainstream and, again, even promoted and spread by a major party presidential campaign.

That's what's different.  

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Just now, Flip Flop said:

Ok.  So, why is it the big story today.  There has been big money per click for years.  Why is everyone talking about fake news now, instead of say, ten years ago?

Facebook was in its infancy ten years ago and Twitter didn't exist. The landscape is entirely different than it was a decade ago. Plus we have never had a major party presidential candidate sharing these bogus stories before. 

But in the end, it's the responsibility of the people to properly inform themselves. And the best way to do that is to consume information from many different sources. It's readily apparent then what is #######.

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Just now, Flip Flop said:

All these people who get their news from social media.  Where did they get their news before?

The same place everyone else got their news.  But the thing about the information age is now we can willingly narrow our news sources to just those who agree with our particular world view. The problem with doing that is that we now live in an echo chamber where our side is always right and anyone who disagrees is not just wrong, but inherently evil. That mindset allows the proliferation of fake news stories because many people so likely to believe it without any verification.

 

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8 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

The networks and newspapers.  Are you making a point, or just asking questions whose answers are pretty obvious?

Did they? 

I am trying to understand the hullabaloo.  I find myself in this position often.  People seem to expect some sort of high mindedness from everyone.  I do not.  We aren't better or worse than we have ever been.  We just are.  So, I don t see this as some sort of crisis.  I have had so many conversations with people who believe that immigrants get a five to seven year pass on taxes that I just don't trust that anyone has reliable sources of information.  If you want people to mistrust fake news you will have to teach them to be skeptical.  Teaching them who to trust just teaches them to be fooled in the future.

Dont assume that I am trying to lay some sort of trap.  I just want to better understand this issue.  I don't see it as a big problem.  Maybe it is a symptom of a problem, but by itself, fake news is not the problem.

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3 minutes ago, Flip Flop said:

Did they? 

I am trying to understand the hullabaloo.  I find myself in this position often.  People seem to expect some sort of high mindedness from everyone.  I do not.  We aren't better or worse than we have ever been.  we just are.  So, I don t see this as some sort of crisis.  I have had so many conversations with people who believe that immigrants get a five to seven year pass on taxes that I just don't trust that anyone has reliable sources of information.  If you want people to mistrust fake news you will have to teach them to be skeptical.  Teaching them who to trust just teaches them to be fooled in the future.

Dont assume that I am trying to lay some sort of trap.  I just want to better understand this issue.  I don't see it as a big problem.  Maybe it is a symptom of a problem, but by itself, fake news is not the problem.

By "we", do you mean the people or the system?  

Nobody has said that Americans are dumber or more gullible than before.  What has changed is the seeming erosion of a credible, widely accepted set of media outlets that report truthful information.  

The internet has replaced that with a system where anybody sitting in some apartment in Eastern Europe can make up something, present it as a "news" article, and millions of people on Facebook will see it, believe it, and share it as fact.  Americans, ESPECIALLY people who are highly partisan and motivated by politics, don't have a filter.  They will blindly believe whatever conforms to their preexisting beliefs, as Gritz pointed out.  A political environment that does not provide a reality check on people's tendencies to believe crazy, false things about the other side creates a dangerous and dysfunctional situation.

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7 minutes ago, Flip Flop said:

Did they? 

I am trying to understand the hullabaloo.  I find myself in this position often.  People seem to expect some sort of high mindedness from everyone.  I do not.  We aren't better or worse than we have ever been.  we just are.  So, I don t see this as some sort of crisis.  I have had so many conversations with people who believe that immigrants get a five to seven year pass on taxes that I just don't trust that anyone has reliable sources of information.  If you want people to mistrust fake news you will have to teach them to be skeptical.  Teaching them who to trust just teaches them to be fooled in the future.

Dont assume that I am trying to lay some sort of trap.  I just want to better understand this issue.  I don't see it as a big problem.  Maybe it is a symptom of a problem, but by itself, fake news is not the problem.

You're right, the fake news isn't the disease. It's a symptom. The disease is heavy partisanship seen in nearly all facets of our media. Especially the "legitimate" sources. Framing those with different worldviews in the worst possible light only forces both sides to insulate themselves from differing opinions by running to alternate news sources which only increases the partisan divide. And anyone who insulates themselves from any differing opinions is far more likely to accept lies as truth.

That's why I shot coffee through my nose on the morning after the election when one guy on CNN seriously asked how America became so divided along partisan lines.

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10 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

By "we", do you mean the people or the system?  

Nobody has said that Americans are dumber or more gullible than before.  What has changed is the seemingly erosion of a credible, widely accepted set of media outlets that report truthful information.  

The internet has replaced that with a system where anybody sitting in some apartment in Eastern Europe can make up something, present it as a "news" article, and millions of people on Facebook will see it, believe it, and share it as fact.  Americans, ESPECIALLY people who are highly partisan and motivated by politics, don't have a filter.  They will blindly believe whatever conforms to their preexisting beliefs, as Gritz pointed out.  A political environment that does not provide a reality check on people's tendencies to believe crazy, false things about the other side creates a dangerous and dysfunctional situation.

We.  People.  Man.  I mean that Xerxes didn't lead an army of a million poets.  It is something that I keep in mind when people wring their hands about the world going to **** in hand basket.  The reason all of the writings that we find form the ancient Rome are so brilliant is because only the great manuscripts survive.  Maybe that is a bit much for this particular conversation, but that is how I keep from buying in to the idea that we are in dire straits.

I think that people love to believe outrageous things about their political opponents.  Hence every republican is a creepy, racist, sexist, homophobe and every liberal is a naive, sheltered, commie.  IMO, people who will be suckered by stupid news stories are not any more empowered today than they have been in the past.  You just see them more, because the internet sees all.

Edited by Flip Flop
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5 minutes ago, Gritzblitz 2.0 said:

You're right, the fake news isn't the disease. It's a symptom. The disease is heavy partisanship seen in nearly all facets of our media. Especially the "legitimate" sources. Framing those with different worldviews in the worst possible light only forces both sides to insulate themselves from differing opinions by running to alternate news sources which only increases the partisan divide. And anyone who insulates themselves from any differing opinions is far more likely to accept lies as truth.

That's why I shot coffee through my nose on the morning after the election when one guy on CNN seriously asked how America became so divided along partisan lines.

I didn't see that, but JFC.

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3 minutes ago, Flip Flop said:

We.  People.  Man.  I mean that Xerxes didn't lead an army of a million poets.  It is something that I keep in mind when people wring their hands about the world going to **** in hand basket.  The reason all of the writing that we find form the ancient Rome are so brilliant is because only the great manuscripts survive.  Maybe that is a bit much of this particular conversation, but that is how I keep from buying in to the idea that we are in dire straits.

I think that people love to believe outrageous things about their political opponents.  Hence every republican is a creepy, racist, sexist, homophobe and every liberal is a naive, sheltered, commie.  IMO, people who will be suckered by stupid news stories are not any more empowered today than they have been in the past.  You just see them more, because the internet sees all.

Your assessment of the public is largely correct.  That's precisely why we need responsible leaders and parties to contain the worst impulses of the public.  With the internet, you throw out every constraint on that and incentivize leaders to demagogue and even engage in flat out lies by spreading fake "news" stories.  The information environment has changed, in other words, to create a system that is destroying any effort to contain those worst impulses and engage in responsible deliberation on national problems.  That's dangerous.

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So if nobody trusts private, corporate run news outlets, why not give more funding to public media instead of letting corporations fund public media, like they do now. Properly funded public media would at least give a different perspective and be less motivated by profit.

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6 hours ago, Halsey. said:

So if nobody trusts private, corporate run news outlets, why not give more funding to public media instead of letting corporations fund public media, like they do now. Properly funded public media would at least give a different perspective and be less motivated by profit.

"State Controlled Media"...you really think people are going to accept that?  Look at how they've attacked NPR.

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Dude Koch is a freaking sponsor of NPR.  BO posted a link long ago that showed that the business under writers were a large percent conservative.  More than 50%.  On point constantly has people from multiple view points on having engaging non yelling discussions.  

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2 minutes ago, lostone said:

Dude Koch is a freaking sponsor of NPR.  BO posted a link long ago that showed that the business under writers were a large percent conservative.  More than 50%.  On point constantly has people from multiple view points on having engaging non yelling discussions.  

I'm aware.  But look at how conservatives have attacked NPR anyway.  They already call media outlets "state run media" and "state controlled media".  A new government funded media outlet isn't going to be credible with them.  

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1 minute ago, Leon Troutsky said:

I'm aware.  But look at how conservatives have attacked NPR anyway.  They already call media outlets "state run media" and "state controlled media".  A new government funded media outlet isn't going to be credible with them.  

People don't want news, they want their viewpoints validated.

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22 hours ago, Flip Flop said:

So, what has changed.  These fake news stories have been around forever.  Before the internet you could find them in magazines and newsletters.  Why the sudden concern about fake news?

Because now it is slanted more to one side of the political spectrum.  In other words they are a tool, a conduit to one party where the media tries to push the parties views on to the American people,  The media is supposed to be impartial, balanced, and fair.  As we saw this last election the news (a lot of it fake) was slanted more to one side.  We do not need a media that tries to help control and shape our elections. 

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1 minute ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

Because now it is slanted more to one side of the political spectrum.  In other words they are a tool, a conduit to one party where the media tries to push the parties views on to the American people,  The media is supposed to be impartial, balanced, and fair.  As we saw this last election the news (a lot of it fake) was slanted more to one side.  We do not need a media that tries to help control and shape our elections. 

Do you have any...you know, facts and evidence...to support any of these claims?

Didn't think so.

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3 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Do you have any...you know, facts and evidence...to support any of these claims?

Didn't think so.

 

He had this meeting for a reason.

Network executives and anchors who went for an “off the record” meeting with Donald Trump Monday afternoon were apparently told they’d be discussing press access during the Trump administration. Instead, Donald Trump delivered a screaming harangue aimed at execs, anchors, reporters … and pictures.

“It was like a f---ing firing squad,” one source said of the meeting. "Trump started with [CNN President] Jeff Zucker and said, ‘I hate your network, everyone at CNN is a liar and you should be ashamed.’"

… “Trump kept saying, ‘We’re in a room full of liars, the deceitful dishonest media who got it all wrong,'" the source said. "He addressed everyone in the room calling the media dishonest, deceitful liars. Trump didn’t say [NBC reporter] Katy Tur by name, but talked about a female correspondent who got it wrong.

GettyImages-536038212.jpg?1479782601

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23 minutes ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

 

He had this meeting for a reason.

Network executives and anchors who went for an “off the record” meeting with Donald Trump Monday afternoon were apparently told they’d be discussing press access during the Trump administration. Instead, Donald Trump delivered a screaming harangue aimed at execs, anchors, reporters … and pictures.

“It was like a f---ing firing squad,” one source said of the meeting. "Trump started with [CNN President] Jeff Zucker and said, ‘I hate your network, everyone at CNN is a liar and you should be ashamed.’"

… “Trump kept saying, ‘We’re in a room full of liars, the deceitful dishonest media who got it all wrong,'" the source said. "He addressed everyone in the room calling the media dishonest, deceitful liars. Trump didn’t say [NBC reporter] Katy Tur by name, but talked about a female correspondent who got it wrong.

GettyImages-536038212.jpg?1479782601

Didn't answer my question, which is do you have any facts or evidence to back up your claims?

I'm assuming you don't, so you deflect as usual.

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Just now, Leon Troutsky said:

Didn't answer my question, which is do you have any facts or evidence to back up your claims?

I'm assuming you don't, so you deflect as usual.

He had this meeting for a reason.  You know the facts.  Pulling up links to prove something that is common knowledge at this point is ludicrous...I'm not going to play in your reindeer games Trout.  

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1 minute ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

He had this meeting for a reason.  You know the facts.  Pulling up links to prove something that is common knowledge at this point is ludicrous...I'm not going to play in your reindeer games Trout.  

You wrote:

"Because now it is slanted more to one side of the political spectrum.  In other words they are a tool, a conduit to one party where the media tries to push the parties views on to the American people,  The media is supposed to be impartial, balanced, and fair.  As we saw this last election the news (a lot of it fake) was slanted more to one side.  We do not need a media that tries to help control and shape our elections."

I asked for facts and evidence to support your view.  

You responded, "he had this meeting for a reason".  That is not an answer.

You are acting like an idiot.

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