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A serious discussion about sexual assault accusations.


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19 hours ago, Dago 3.0 said:

While I think his comments are tasteless and at a level that I have never done, I have still been apart of tasteless locker room talk about women. I have also joked about murdering or assaulting people so it makes it difficult for me to take a massive hard stance (no pun intended). Plus I would consider it a private conversation and have a problem with the fact that nobody cares that this private conversation was recorded without permission. Anybody who claims they have never said anything in private that they wouldn't say in public is a liar. Who am I to say what is acceptable or not in a private conversation?

Other than that, as Trout said, the problem is huge without any easy solution. IMO this is more a symptom of our sick, narcissistic, and selfish society where individuals are unable to look beyond their own wants and desires

Your last paragraph is the truth.

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11 hours ago, Sobeit said:

Your problem with this accusation is that you do not know the context in which he made it. Were the women he was referring to being flirty and inviting it. Or was Trump just a serial kisser and groper much like a flasher? Then one of Trumps accusers dated him after the fact and her divorce. She claims to have been traumatized by Trump but sought him when she wanted help and was lonely. Not exactly consistent with being traumatized.

With women on the Clinton account you have women that were always reluctant to go public and even signed papers hoping it would just go away. Until Lay persuaded them to come forward and gave them immunity. These woman did avoid contact with Bill and stayed quiet. These are things we notice in many of these accounts when they start coming forward it tends to snowball. I'm very curious if others may come forward since these woman are back in the media again. It will be interesting to see if more do and if it gets any attention.

Again, you're just wrong on the facts.  SOME women were reluctant to come forwards.  Others came out during the 1992 election.  Plus, you have very problematic claims by a few of them, such as Kathleen Wiley who lied to the FBI during the investigation and gave contradicting accounts to the FBI and the grand jury.  

Again, you're acting like all of the accusations against Clinton were 100% proven true and none of the Trump accusations have any merit whatsoever.    That's the partisanship I'm talking about in my OP.

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Again, we don't have to look far, Bill Clinton was expelled from Oxford for raping Eilleen Wellstone. https://www.facebook.com/UncleSamsMisguidedChildren.Net/videos/563419090520761/

The left, the feminist movement lost all chances for being taken serious when they allowed Bill Clinton and his wife to trounce and attack women over many decades. You then never saw, heard any hand wringing about JFK or Ted Kennedy when they assaulted and abused women. The msm will not cover it so the faux outrage exhibited at Trump is total bullchit.

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1 minute ago, dirtyhairy said:

Again, we don't have to look far, Bill Clinton was expelled from Oxford for raping Eilleen Wellstone. https://www.facebook.com/UncleSamsMisguidedChildren.Net/videos/563419090520761/

The left, the feminist movement lost all chances for being taken serious when they allowed Bill Clinton and his wife to trounce and attack women over many decades. You then never saw, heard any hand wringing about JFK or Ted Kennedy when they assaulted and abused women. The msm will not cover it so the faux outrage exhibited at Trump is total bullchit.

Nothing says credible news source like Facebook.  POS.

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Juanita isn't the only one: Bill Clinton's long history of sexual violence against women dates back some 30 years

 

 

 

 

(Editor's Note: The following story is an update of previously-published information and contains some new material.)

By Daniel J. Harris
& Teresa Hampton
Capitol Hill Blue

Women have been charging Bill Clinton with sexual assault since his days as a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford 30 years ago.

A continuing investigation into the President's questionable sexual history reveal incidents that go back as far as Clinton's college days, with more than a dozen women claiming his sexual appetites leave little room for the word ''no.''

Juanita Broaddrick, an Arkansas nursing home operator, told NBC's Lisa Myers five weeks ago she was raped by Clinton. NBC shelved the interview, saying they were confirming all parts of the story, but finally aired it Wednesday night.

Broaddrick finally took her story to The Wall Street Journal, which published her account of the brutal rape at the hands of the future President, followed by The Washington Post and some other publications.

But Capitol Hill Blue has confirmed that Broaddrick's story is only one account of many attempted and actual sexual assaults by Clinton that go back 30 years. Among the other incidents:

  • Eileen Wellstone, 19-year-old English woman who said Clinton sexually assaulted her after she met him at a pub near the Oxford where the future President was a student in 1969. A retired State Department employee, who asked not to be identified, confirmed that he spoke with the family of the girl and filed a report with his superiors. Clinton admitted having sex with the girl, but claimed it was consensual. The victim's family declined to pursue the case;
  • In 1972, a 22-year-old woman told campus police at Yale University that she was sexually assaulted by Clinton, a law student at the college. No charges were filed, but retired campus policemen contacted by Capitol Hill Blue confirmed the incident. The woman, tracked down by Capitol Hill Blue last week, confirmed the incident, but declined to discuss it further and would not give permission to use her name;
  • In 1974, a female student at the University of Arkansas complained that then-law school instructor Bill Clinton tried to prevent her from leaving his office during a conference. She said he groped her and forced his hand inside her blouse. She complained to her faculty advisor who confronted Clinton, but Clinton claimed the student ''came on'' to him. The student left the school shortly after the incident. Reached at her home in Texas, the former student confirmed the incident, but declined to go on the record with her account. Several former students at the University have confirmed the incident in confidential interviews and said there were other reports of Clinton attempting to force himself on female students;
  • Broaddrick, a volunteer in Clinton's gubernatorial campaign, said he raped her in 1978. Mrs. Broaddrick suffered a bruised and torn lip, which she said she suffered when Clinton bit her during the rape;
  • From 1978-1980, during Clinton's first term as governor of Arkansas, state troopers assigned to protect the governor were aware of at least seven complaints from women who said Clinton forced, or attempted to force, himself on them sexually. One retired state trooper said in an interview that the common joke among those assigned to protect Clinton was "who's next?". One former state trooper said other troopers would often escort women to the governor's hotel room after political events, often more than one an evening;
  • Carolyn Moffet, a legal secretary in Little Rock in 1979, said she met then-governor Clinton at a political fundraiser and shortly thereafter received an invitation to meet the governor in his hotel room. "I was escorted there by a state trooper. When I went in, he was sitting on a couch, wearing only an undershirt. He pointed at his ***** and told me to suck it. I told him I didn't even do that for my boyfriend and he got mad, grabbed my head and shoved it into his lap. I pulled away from him and ran out of the room."
  • Elizabeth Ward, the Miss Arkansas who won the Miss America crown in 1982, told friends she was forced by Clinton to have sex with him shortly after she won her state crown. Last year, Ward, who is now married with the last name of Gracen (from her first marriage), told an interviewer she did have sex with Clinton but said it was consensual. Close friends of Ward, however, say she still maintains privately that Clinton forced himself on her.
  • Paula Corbin, an Arkansas state worker, filed a sexual harassment case against Clinton after an encounter in a Little Rock hotel room where the then-governor exposed himself and demanded oral sex. Clinton settled the case with Jones recently with an $850,000 cash payment.
  • Sandra Allen James, a former Washington, DC, political fundraiser says Presidential candidate-to-be Clinton invited her to his hotel room during a political trip to the nation's capital in 1991, pinned her against the wall and stuck his hand up her dress. She says she screamed loud enough for the Arkansas State Trooper stationed outside the hotel suite to bang on the door and ask if everything was all right, at which point Clinton released her and she fled the room. When she reported the incident to her boss, he advised her to keep her mouth shut if she wanted to keep working. Miss James has since married and left Washington. Reached at her home last week, the former Miss James said she later learned that other women suffered the same fate at Clinton's hands when he was in Washington during his Presidential run.
  • Christy Zercher, a flight attendant on Clinton's leased campaign plane in 1992, says Presidential candidate Clinton exposed himself to her, grabbed her breasts and made explicit remarks about oral sex. A video shot on board the plane by ABC News shows an obviously inebriated Clinton with his hand between another young flight attendant's legs. Zercher said later in an interview that White House attorney Bruce Lindsey tried to pressure her into not going public about the assault.
  • Kathleen Willey, a White House volunteer, reported that Clinton grabbed her, fondled her breast and pressed her hand against his genitals during an Oval Office meeting in November, 1993. Willey, who told her story in a 60 Minutes interview, became a target of a White House-directed smear campaign after she went public.
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16 minutes ago, lostone said:

Clinton bad (I agree) 

trump good (I disagree)

 

Just admit you guys are hypocrites and make this easier.

Most logic thing on this topic I've seen, and yet no one will respond to this outside of what I just said. 

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17 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Hey y'all, look at this Facebook post claiming this wild thing about Clinton without any evidence whatsoever and let's ignore the video of Trump bragging about sexually assaulting women and the two women who said Trump did to them exactly what he bragged about doing on the tape!!

 

You know here is the difference between us. I'm willing to hear those stories still from a woman that dated Clinton after she claims he traumatized her not because fo rape but sexual harassment. Then another who has filed a 2nd time because the 1st time she could not provide a proper address.

With Clinton we have a long unbroken chain of complaints that just never seem to go away.

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I thought this was a very relevant article in today's NYTimes. From the article:

“This is RAPE CULTURE — the cultural conditioning of men and boys to feel entitled to treat women as objects,” Jill Gallenstein, 40, a retail executive in Los Angeles, wrote on Facebook. “It’s women and girls questioning what they have done to provoke such behavior. It’s the dismissing of this behavior because ‘it’s the way it has always been.’ It’s justifying the behavior because other powerful men have done it too. ‘Locker room talk’ normalizes this behavior — what we say matters.”

 

Quite frankly you find instances of what is described above on this very board, and multiple threads therein. I do find myself guilty of participating in that culture. I'm not saying that posting a half naked picture of a woman, sexual jokes targeting women, joking about their function as maids, etc, are the same as rape, but it's not hard to see how that would lead to a culture where sexual assault or its implication is not viewed as badly as it should.

 

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5 minutes ago, dmo_dlo said:

I thought this was a very relevant article in today's NYTimes. From the article:

“This is RAPE CULTURE — the cultural conditioning of men and boys to feel entitled to treat women as objects,” Jill Gallenstein, 40, a retail executive in Los Angeles, wrote on Facebook. “It’s women and girls questioning what they have done to provoke such behavior. It’s the dismissing of this behavior because ‘it’s the way it has always been.’ It’s justifying the behavior because other powerful men have done it too. ‘Locker room talk’ normalizes this behavior — what we say matters.”

 

Quite frankly you find instances of what is described above on this very board, and multiple threads therein. I do find myself guilty of participating in that culture. I'm not saying that posting a half naked picture of a woman, sexual jokes targeting women, joking about their function as maids, etc, are the same as rape, but it's not hard to see how that would lead to a culture where sexual assault or its implication is not viewed as badly as it should.

 

My daughter is now at the age where I will need to have the discussion with her soon that she's not an object, and this behavior from boys is not acceptable and shouldn't be treated as normal. 

 

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20 hours ago, silentbob1272 said:

So saying vile things is the same as doing vile things? I know mdrake won't see this, but since this is the quote that made no sense to me, it was the one to quote, this question is directed to anyone who agrees with him.

No. What people say indicates what they think, which informs how they act.

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20 hours ago, silentbob1272 said:

Rape is wrong and heinous no matter the context, no matter the victim, and no matter the assailant. 

I think this is pretty well the universal philosophy for the vast majority of Americans, which is why again, I think the whole "rape culture" bs is just that.

If it's the universal philosophy of most Americans, why do such a huge number of women report being sexually assaulted?

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3 minutes ago, silentbob1272 said:

Because evil exists, but sexual assault is not encouraged culturally in any way. At least as I see it. If I'm wrong about that, tell me how, I would probably be on your side.

You mean aside from inundating men in our society with the belief that objectifying women is not only part of the natural state of consciousness for men but a sign of masculinity in and of itself?

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I say "aside from" because it's actually so much more than just simply "objectifying" women. Cultures that prop women up as beings inherently more virtuous than men, such that they should be valued based on their passiveness and modesty, make sexual assault much harder to report by allowing men to be natural predators while insinuating that women who are sexually assaulted did something to deserve it. 

Thankfully mainstream society in America has progressed to the point that people can point that out and not be labeled sexual deviants and instigators, but purity culture still exists here. Many girls are still raised to think that thinking about sex before they're married is wrong or unnatural, or they're just not raised with any useful information about sex at all. They grow up thinking they're dirty for what they think and feel, so their self-esteem is lowered by thinking about sex while trying not to think about sex, which sometimes means they won't value themselves enough to report sexual assault, choosing instead to blame themselves for "sending mixed signals" while letting their attacker continue to rape them without fear of consequence. That's how you hear about girls who are repeatedly raped by someone in or close to their family and wonder how that's so much more common than the sensationalist stories about serial rapists attacking women at random.

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47 minutes ago, silentbob1272 said:

Because evil exists, but sexual assault is not encouraged culturally in any way. At least as I see it. If I'm wrong about that, tell me how, I would probably be on your side.

If it's not encouraged why would a man be bragging about it? 

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47 minutes ago, Serge said:

You mean aside from inundating men in our society with the belief that objectifying women is not only part of the natural state of consciousness for men but a sign of masculinity in and of itself?

 

10 minutes ago, WORilla said:

If it's not encouraged why would a man be bragging about it? 

Okay, I understand where you guys are coming from.  What I don't understand is the ease in which which you guys are so readily acceptable about bringing in a culture of men we cannot vet properly, who we know objectify women, gays, etc.  So in your minds it would be perfectly reasonable to accept these men in our culture knowing how they treat women, gays, etc?.  Sounds a little hypocritical to me...

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5 minutes ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

 

Okay, I understand where you guys are coming from.  What I don't understand is the ease in which which you guys are so readily acceptable about bringing in a culture of men we cannot vet properly, who we know objectify women, gays, etc.  So in your minds it would be perfectly reasonable to accept these men in our culture knowing how they treat women, gays, etc?.  Sounds a little hypocritical to me...

If you're willing to suggest that whatever small portion of the potential couple of thousand refugees represent the behavior of the entire group, then surely you're willing to call all American men potential rapists? A staggering number of women report being victims of sexual assault in the US, but you're worried about a few thousand refugees? Seems pretty transparent to me.

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