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A serious discussion about sexual assault accusations.


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Good God...as often as I disagree with Trout, he has presented an important topic in a non-biased manner

I completely agree that Clinton got away with it, but that isn't what the thread is supposed to be about. It is more about our society and media

for the record, I don't know that I would use the term 'rape culture' for what is going on in this country. It is far too broad and open to interpretation. at least keep it specific like when Drake specifically mentioned Hollywood 

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3 minutes ago, Dago 3.0 said:

Good God...as often as I disagree with Trout, he has presented an important topic in a non-biased manner

I completely agree that Clinton got away with it, but that isn't what the thread is supposed to be about. It is more about our society and media

for the record, I don't know that I would use the term 'rape culture' for what is going on in this country. It is far too broad and open to interpretation. at least keep it specific like when Drake specifically mentioned Hollywood 

It's an incredibly broad and complicated topic.  When I say "rape culture," I don't mean some third feminist movement type idea that American men all just run around and rape and sexually assault every woman in sight.  I mean it more as how it's perceived and discussed in this country.  The "it was just locker room talk" crowd is indicative of this. 

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Just now, mdrake34 said:

It's an incredibly broad and complicated topic.  When I say "rape culture," I don't mean some third feminist movement type idea that American men all just run around and rape and sexually assault every woman in sight.  I mean it more as how it's perceived and discussed in this country.  The "it was just locker room talk" crowd is indicative of this. 

While I think his comments are tasteless and at a level that I have never done, I have still been apart of tasteless locker room talk about women. I have also joked about murdering or assaulting people so it makes it difficult for me to take a massive hard stance (no pun intended). Plus I would consider it a private conversation and have a problem with the fact that nobody cares that this private conversation was recorded without permission. Anybody who claims they have never said anything in private that they wouldn't say in public is a liar. Who am I to say what is acceptable or not in a private conversation?

Other than that, as Trout said, the problem is huge without any easy solution. IMO this is more a symptom of our sick, narcissistic, and selfish society where individuals are unable to look beyond their own wants and desires

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54 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

It's an incredibly broad and complicated topic.  When I say "rape culture," I don't mean some third feminist movement type idea that American men all just run around and rape and sexually assault every woman in sight.  I mean it more as how it's perceived and discussed in this country.  The "it was just locker room talk" crowd is indicative of this. 

So saying vile things is the same as doing vile things? I know mdrake won't see this, but since this is the quote that made no sense to me, it was the one to quote, this question is directed to anyone who agrees with him.

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7 minutes ago, WORilla said:

For people that want to "Make America Great Again" trump supporters sure to spend a lot of time that a lot of the issues in america are just made up liberal crap. 

So again, in what context and philosophy does a prevailing "rape culture" exist in the U.S.?

Who do you think subscribes to it? Who are these people? I'd like to avoid them.

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"Rape culture" goes hand and hand with the equally upopular suggestion that men in this society are raised with a set of gender norms and expectations that stunt emotional growth and necessitates the objectification of women as a way of creating a reflection of this self-image within the other that is "woman." It's the idea that men need women to be feminine and yielding to reflect their own masculinity and self-confidence. A lot of damaging assumptions and behavior spring out of that. A woman who is seen as unfeminine is seen as a ***** or sexually attracted to women. Women who are unyielding are stuck up or cold. Women who are seen as promiscuous or attracted to sex appeal or wealth rather than love are bad because they betray the affection of men, thus they are devalued as women. Calling it "rape culture" comes from the idea that some men use rape to assert their dominance, and the victim is more often than not either scared into never going to the authorities, or told that they won't get justice because some detail about their life outside of that attack will be used to suggest they're actually attempting to ruin an innocent man's life with their "woman problems."

Trump's comment makes folks think "rape culture" because the way he talks about women suggests he's only capable of valuing them as sex objects and appears to think being rich makes women want to be groped by him. Even if he wasn't serious, that actually is something men do to women because they think it's cool, and he thought it was a joke worth saying to another human being.

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Ok, I went back and read your original post because it sort got lost on Page 2 of this thread. 

I don't feel there is a solution.  This may just be one of the things that will always be this way.  We are polarized by sex.  Yet, it is still taboo.  The only solution I see is to prosecute the claims and to also prosecute those who make false ones.  The system is so varied.  Compare the Duke Rape case to the Stanford Rape case.  There is no common ground.  And I don't see any way to clean up the system so that false accusations cease.

We are a nation that wants to see the worse in people so we can feel better about ourselves or our guy.  It's vain and it's disgusting, but it's true.  Which goes back to your point, careers are destroyed because of allegations. 

As far as the phrase "rape culture", I'm not sure whether I agree with this or not.  To me, it seems that we have raise a group of kids who cannot comprehend the word NO! And now that's a no in anything.  They want it their way, and now.  Life has taught them that there isn't too much they can't get out of without any serious consequences so why worry.  Someone will always be there to pick up the pieces.

 

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10 hours ago, Summerbunny said:

Ok, I went back and read your original post because it sort got lost on Page 2 of this thread. 

I don't feel there is a solution.  This may just be one of the things that will always be this way.  We are polarized by sex.  Yet, it is still taboo.  The only solution I see is to prosecute the claims and to also prosecute those who make false ones.  The system is so varied.  Compare the Duke Rape case to the Stanford Rape case.  There is no common ground.  And I don't see any way to clean up the system so that false accusations cease.

We are a nation that wants to see the worse in people so we can feel better about ourselves or our guy.  It's vain and it's disgusting, but it's true.  Which goes back to your point, careers are destroyed because of allegations. 

As far as the phrase "rape culture", I'm not sure whether I agree with this or not.  To me, it seems that we have raise a group of kids who cannot comprehend the word NO! And now that's a no in anything.  They want it their way, and now.  Life has taught them that there isn't too much they can't get out of without any serious consequences so why worry.  Someone will always be there to pick up the pieces.

 

This mostly, and really jumping to the point there is no solution. All you can do is try to prevent that's literally all there is to it. 

Doubt people don't understand no either think it just might be deeper than that. 

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9 hours ago, Leon Troutsky said:

The exact same thing has been claimed about Donald Trump and there is just as much evidence for both accusations.  If you want to go farther, Donald Trump is on camera bragging about sexually predatory behavior against women.  

But again, you're highlighting almost every point that I'm making in this thread.  You trivialize this and do a disservice to victims of sexual assault around the country.  And it shows what a grade-A POS you are.

Your problem with this accusation is that you do not know the context in which he made it. Were the women he was referring to being flirty and inviting it. Or was Trump just a serial kisser and groper much like a flasher? Then one of Trumps accusers dated him after the fact and her divorce. She claims to have been traumatized by Trump but sought him when she wanted help and was lonely. Not exactly consistent with being traumatized.

With women on the Clinton account you have women that were always reluctant to go public and even signed papers hoping it would just go away. Until Lay persuaded them to come forward and gave them immunity. These woman did avoid contact with Bill and stayed quiet. These are things we notice in many of these accounts when they start coming forward it tends to snowball. I'm very curious if others may come forward since these woman are back in the media again. It will be interesting to see if more do and if it gets any attention.

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