Lack of Tackling

[Vicious]

After watching, and rewatching both games, there seems to be an issue with performing a simple tackle. Our guys have been in position to make stops the majority of the time, but there seems to be a common theme with the defense this year.

From what I have observed, it appears as though the entire defense is trying to strip the ball rather than make a tackle. They seem to be in position to make a stop, but they go for the ball, and end up giving up YAC.

I've seen more grabs at the ball followed by a defender getting taken for a ride still trying to snatch the ball out than I have seen of them trying to get the carrier down. I'm not sure if the emphasis has been on creating more turnovers, but needless to say they are failing miserably. 

Last year's defense was worlds better than this year's.  Guys flew toward the ball, squared up, and made nice textbook tackles. This year, they are taking bad angles, swatting at the ball, and knocking each other out plays. 

Maybe the influx of youth has a little to do with it, but they shouldn't be regressing this badly in year two. Has anybody else noticed this?

[sonnyjim]

This is a result, especially on rookie laden defenses, of the new 'no-contact' training camps.  I believe it was Seattle who was just fined by the league for running secret off campus workouts that included pads and contact.  Didn't help their offence much.

[hotlanta]

I think it's a league problem, I see a ton of defenders going for the ball instead of wrapping up the ball handler.

[sonnyjim]

9 minutes ago, hotlanta said:

I think it's a league problem, I see a ton of defenders going for the ball instead of wrapping up the ball handler.

Good point.  Coaches emphasize creating turnovers but sometimes going for the ball isn't part of wrapping up and sometimes going for the interception isn't part of defending the pass.  It's a fine line.  

Edited September 20, 2016 by sonnyjim

[PokerSteve]

I don't understand how you can be a defensive football player and not be able to tackle. It ain't rocket surgery or brain science. Sure, there are techniques to do it well, but you have to be mentally willing to take the contact and take a guy down.

 If you don't have the guts to deal with the contact, you shouldn't be playing effing defense. I'm just seeing a bunch of people slapping at the ball, swiping at legs and grabbing at jerseys. Really Bush league and clownish when you see five and six Falcon defenders miss on the same dam play.

 

[papachaz]

2 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

I don't understand how you can be a defensive football player and not be able to tackle. It ain't rocket surgery or brain science. Sure, there are techniques to do it well, but you have to be mentally willing to take the contact and take a guy down.

 If you don't have the guts to deal with the contact, you shouldn't be playing effing defense. I'm just seeing a bunch of people slapping at the ball, swiping at legs and grabbing at jerseys. Really Bush league and clownish when you see five and six Falcon defenders miss on the same dam play.

 

isn't the main thing for being a defensive player kind of supposed to be tackling? I mean good grief, you're there to stop the offense, right?

 

have to say though I've been impressed with some of the tackles spoon has made in the first few games

[Flyin' In DC]

I have seen a lot of out defenders stop their feet or are flat footed and end diving for a tackle. This is fundamental as well. I am wondering if the Rugby technique(which might new to a lot of players) is causing the hesitation or making them stop moving their feet and to be out of position

[PokerSteve]

Just now, papachaz said:

isn't the main thing for being a defensive player kind of supposed to be tackling? I mean good grief, you're there to stop the offense, right?

 

have to say though I've been impressed with some of the tackles spoon has made in the first few games

Yes sir, Spoon has been a bright spot. Got to give the man credit.

[TheFatboi]

11 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

I don't understand how you can be a defensive football player and not be able to tackle. It ain't rocket surgery or brain science. Sure, there are techniques to do it well, but you have to be mentally willing to take the contact and take a guy down.

 If you don't have the guts to deal with the contact, you shouldn't be playing effing defense. I'm just seeing a bunch of people slapping at the ball, swiping at legs and grabbing at jerseys. Really Bush league and clownish when you see five and six Falcon defenders miss on the same dam play.

 

It's not that they can't tackle. Dan Quinn preaches getting the ball back. Creating turnovers. Lovie Smith preached it in Chi and Tampa. Both teams got a lot of turnovers. The problem is they're attacking the ball at the wrong times when they should just make the tackle. Neal will be that guy that creates fumbles. I actually don't mind defenses that attack the football. I used to love how Chicago's defense would get the ball back for the offense. Carolina is good at knocking the ball out too. The Falcons will eventually get better at it. Like when running behind a player hit the ball while wrapping up. Like Alexander did on Julio last year or the fumble Coleman had against minny. I don't mind that but they have to punch the ball out instead of trying to pry it out. Or at least two guys make sure he goes down while ONE is trying to strip instead of all 3 trying to strip. 

[falconidae]

I'm also hoping that some of the missed tackles are just players reacting to the play just a split second late and that, with more time in the scheme, they tighten up.

[TheFatboi]

2 minutes ago, falconidae said:

I'm also hoping that some of the missed tackles are just players reacting to the play just a split second late and that, with more time in the scheme, they tighten up.

As a former running I can tell you first hand I'm gonna make that 1st guy miss. EVRRYTIME. Unless he catches me before I can do anything. A lot of it is the ppl they are trying to tackle are shifty. Some of it is trying to take the ball. We hear Fan Quinn preach "it's about the ball" all the time but we can't tackle lol. It's about the ball. A lot of it is because they're trying to create turnovers. They just have to get better at having a designated ball guy and gang tackle. 

[HASHBROWN3]

Tackling was very rough indeed.  Big azz backs and our D was gassed but I agree 100%.  It was awful.

The only thing worse were those freaking penalties again.  We literally GAVE THEM YET ANOTHER TD...  AGAIN!!!

We had the crucial stop once again and lo and behold...12 men on the field... Absolute back breaker!!  It cost us another stinking 7 points.  Unbelievable.  

We should be 2-0 and this one wouldn't have been as close with better tackling and less penalties.  Schraeder had one that hurt a drive but he played well otherwise.

[Summerhill]

Before we just assume the Falcons have a tackling problem, does anyone have stats on the number of missed tackles by Atlanta compared to the rest of the NFL teams? 

[HASHBROWN3]

5 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

As a former running I can tell you first hand I'm gonna make that 1st guy miss. EVRRYTIME. Unless he catches me before I can do anything. A lot of it is the ppl they are trying to tackle are shifty. Some of it is trying to take the ball. We hear Fan Quinn preach "it's about the ball" all the time but we can't tackle lol. It's about the ball. A lot of it is because they're trying to create turnovers. They just have to get better at having a designated ball guy and gang tackle. 

Again you are right on this subject.  However, we absolutely must start breaking down better as we get ready to make the hit.  At least get one leg and wait for help.

[TheFatboi]

1 minute ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

Again you are right on this subject.  However, we absolutely must start breaking down better as we get ready to make the hit.  At least get one leg and wait for help.

See that's the thing. Shifty runners like myself NEED you to break down. That's what we use against you. The best thing to do with a shifty runner is take a great angle where he can't juke and crash his @ss. The only guys that annoyed me were the ones that didn't break down when I tried to set up a move. It's easier said then done but that's how you deal with shifty runners. Don't go for head fakes. Watch the hips. He can't run without his hips. Heads and shoulder pads can go different ways but the hips go where you go. Ray Lewis was good at crashing shifty runners. Spoon is the worst when he breaks down on a shifty runner. Loses him every time. That's why I like Campbell. He crashes most of the time instead of falling for set ups. 

[AndySG]

There's a midground between Decoud not going for tackles and Dunta knocking himself out by going helmet first. Need to find it. Give me firm tackling where we wrap up, even if it doesn't create turnovers. 

[HASHBROWN3]

6 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

See that's the thing. Shifty runners like myself NEED you to break down. That's what we use against you. The best thing to do with a shifty runner is take a great angle where he can't juke and crash his @ss. The only guys that annoyed me were the ones that didn't break down when I tried to set up a move. It's easier said then done but that's how you deal with shifty runners. Don't go for head fakes. Watch the hips. He can't run without his hips. Heads and shoulder pads can go different ways but the hips go where you go. Ray Lewis was good at crashing shifty runners. Spoon is the worst when he breaks down on a shifty runner. Loses him every time. That's why I like Campbell. He crashes most of the time instead of falling for set ups. 

I call it watching the guys belt buckle.  Dead center.  I did the same thing in both football and basketball.  The head, eyes and limbs can make you lean, but that belt buckle will only move with his core and be the ultimate indication which way the player will be moving.

If you come in without breaking down you have too much momentum and that is so easy to for me to plant my foot in a split second and let his momentum carry himself on by.  I'm not talking about breaking down when you are right on top of him, I'm talking about two yards before you reach him with your eyes on those hips/belt buckle.  

Now any athlete knows when to come in full tilt for the hit.  It's usually when you have other players hemming him in, or a sideline to work with or he hasn't accounted for you yet.  Especially if his vision is impeded and you can use a wall of players as a screen or you anticipate that he will move away from another tackler in a certain direction.  Boom!  

[papachaz]

1 hour ago, TheFatboi said:

It's not that they can't tackle. Dan Quinn preaches getting the ball back. Creating turnovers. Lovie Smith preached it in Chi and Tampa. Both teams got a lot of turnovers. The problem is they're attacking the ball at the wrong times when they should just make the tackle. Neal will be that guy that creates fumbles. I actually don't mind defenses that attack the football. I used to love how Chicago's defense would get the ball back for the offense. Carolina is good at knocking the ball out too. The Falcons will eventually get better at it. Like when running behind a player hit the ball while wrapping up. Like Alexander did on Julio last year or the fumble Coleman had against minny. I don't mind that but they have to punch the ball out instead of trying to pry it out. Or at least two guys make sure he goes down while ONE is trying to strip instead of all 3 trying to strip. 

well, except for when half the guys on defense don't make the runner fumble OR tackle him and he scores or picks up the first down...........now where have I seen that happen, hmmmmm................

[kiwifalcon]

Its a technique thing if they want to gang tackle and strip I'm all for that.

The issue is once you commit your shoulder your head goes out to the side and then stripping should'nt be the option.

Whoever mentioned Spoon and his technique is spot on.I saw a coupleof open field text book tackles by Spoon yesterday.If you can get #ersin a tackle the trip should be attempted.

If your there 1 on 1 or a guy comes late the first guy has to put the runner or reciever on the deck that should be there aim not the strip.

[Vicious]

I get that some of the players are shifty, but what I'm talking about is when they square up to make the stop. I'm seeing far too many defenders trying to pry the ball out instead of trying to make the tackle. This has resulted in 5-20 yards extra each time. The worst part is watching our guys being dragged along for the ride looking like a kid trying to tackle his father.

I love it when we get turnovers, but I like to see it whenever they are taking the guy to the ground, and somebody pops the ball out on the way down. It's a win win situation. The player has been stopped from advancing the ball any further, and if by chance they knock the ball out then great. I'd like to see better tackling before they start trying to strip the ball.

 

[falcndave]

I agree with the tackling issues at the point of attack. However, I have seen FAR more open field one-on-one tackles made this year. The bane of your defense last year was 1 yard completions leading to 1st downs on 3rd and 12. This year I have consistently seen the DBs rally up to make the stop short of the first down on 3rd and 7ish type plays. We had a number of 3rd and long stops where guys caught the ball 3 or 4 yards short of the sticks and couldn't get there. 

So, I have certainly seen broken tackles at the LOS that lead to unneeded 4 yard gains.  However, on possession downs it seems like we are doing a generally better job of keeping guys short of the sticks. Not 100%,but much better.

[falcndave]

Here are  few good points in Sunday's game.

• Raiders first possession, 3rd and 4.  QB hits RB in the flat, he slips and bit, but Ish had him eaten up 3 yards short either way. 
• 2nd quarter, 3rd and 14. QB hits RB in the flat, Spoon clobbers him 1 on 1 for a 3 yard gain. If Spoon misses him, there is a lot of green.
• 3rd quarter
  • 2nd and 8 or so, Beasley sheds block at the point of attack and blows the RB up 1 on 1. 
  • 3rd and 10, QB dumps to RB, Ish blow him up again for 3 yard gain.

So, those are all plays that should be made, but we whiffed in those situations at a very high percentage last year. There were a lot of good 2nd down stops to, but I was just cherry picking 3rd downs here. Ish had a big game.

[OilFuturesTrader19]

9 hours ago, Vicious said:

After watching, and rewatching both games, there seems to be an issue with performing a simple tackle. Our guys have been in position to make stops the majority of the time, but there seems to be a common theme with the defense this year.

From what I have observed, it appears as though the entire defense is trying to strip the ball rather than make a tackle. They seem to be in position to make a stop, but they go for the ball, and end up giving up YAC.

I've seen more grabs at the ball followed by a defender getting taken for a ride still trying to snatch the ball out than I have seen of them trying to get the carrier down. I'm not sure if the emphasis has been on creating more turnovers, but needless to say they are failing miserably. 

Last year's defense was worlds better than this year's.  Guys flew toward the ball, squared up, and made nice textbook tackles. This year, they are taking bad angles, swatting at the ball, and knocking each other out plays. 

Maybe the influx of youth has a little to do with it, but they shouldn't be regressing this badly in year two. Has anybody else noticed this?

I agree %100 and said this in several earlier posts this season. They are trying to strip the ball and allowing ball carriers an extra 5+ yards many times. Just frikin tackle and the turnovers will come with proper tackling!!