Jump to content

Shanahan countdown.....Or do we get rid of Ryan instead?


Robb4242
 Share

Recommended Posts

If I had my druthers, the fire Shanahan countdown clock would be at -603 days and counting (that's NEGATIVE 603 days).  Is Shanahan the problem, or is it Ryan?  We've seen Shanahan have 2 good years as an OC when having the right style of QB at his disposal.  We've seen Ryan have quite a few good years when having a coordinator who would adjust the scheme to the player's talent.  People are pointing to Ryan's numbers and trying to say the offense is not the problem, and it's not THE problem, that's Brian Cox and the D-line.  There's really nothing to debate there, so let's talk about the problem that comes in a close second to Cox and his inability to coach.  

Kyle Shanahan is something that I, and many other fans, were concerned about when Quinn hitched his wagon to Shanahan during the interview process. Shanahan and Ryan just are not compatible. The root question that should be asked is; should the offensive coordinator adjust his scheme to fit the QB, or should the team sign a QB that fits the scheme if there isn't one on the roster? Shanahan has proven, in all his stops, to be about an inflexible in adjusting his scheme to the strengths of the players on the roster as you could possibly be. If Shanahan then, is what the owner, GM's, and head coach want here, then it means we should get rid of Ryan, because he is not capable of running Shanahan's offense the way it needs to be run to be successful.  We should have tried to find a way to do that last year, or even this offseason.  Heck, think the Vikings would have preferred Ryan over Bradford? This is not a knock on Ryan at all, everybody has their strengths and weaknesses, and this system just isn't within his strengths. Ryan can be a very good, borderline elite, QB in the proper scheme. But it's much harder, if not impossible, for the player to change their abilities to fit a coordinator's system if they are not a fit for it naturally. This is why it has to be one or the other, and it needs to be changed soon.

For the Falcons, that SHOULD mean cutting ties with Shanahan rather than Ryan. First, it is much more difficult to find a QB that can be consistently in the top 10 of NFL QBs when in the right system. Removing Ryan means taking the chance on finding a replacement that can have that level of success, and it probably will not happen immediately, it may take 1 or 2 QBs to get there.

The second reason that the Falcons should cut ties with Shanahan over Ryan is that coordinators come and go much easier. If we cut Ryan after this season and next year's QB is a bust or does not mesh quickly, does Shanahan last anyway? Or does he move on to a new job that might work out better for him before we even find out about the next QB? There is a lot less certainty when expecting Shanahan to stay AND also finding a QB that can be consistently good right away.

Third, most coaches/coordinators are flexible enough to adjust their schemes to fit the talent on the roster. It speaks volumes when the coordinator cannot work with his top players due to either arrogance or ineptitude, or both. We saw the arrogance last year when Shanahan refused to adjust or listen to players like Ryan or Roddy on how the offense could adjust. We also saw the arrogance again when he spit in the fans faces during their cries for Roddy to be involved. But I'm beginning to think its more of the ineptitude that keeps Shanahan from adjusting and tweaking his scheme. He reminds me a lot of Coach Red Beaulieu from The Waterboy. Coach Red had his stolen playbook because he couldn't design those plays himself. Once Coach Klein got his manhood back, he destroyed Coach Red because Red had no mind for the game. Similarly, Kyle Shanahan has daddy's playbook that worked well, and was adjusted to fit the players that Mike had on the roster. Kyle is unable to adjust the playbook because he's really not a football mind, he's just a guy who inherited a playbook and used nepotism to get into the league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 94
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Why are we still complaining about Kyle? 

That most annoying part about yall complaining about Kyle is that it has nothing to do with anything other than "I didn't like him when we hired him" and his failure/firing would vindicate your intelligence. The offense and Kyle were not the primary issue yesterday. A defense that gives up 31 points doesn't give the team much of a chance to win. You know how many teams averaged over 30 points scored last year? Two. You know how many allowed over 30? Zero. 

The offense played a good game yesterday. Yes, there were some bad calls, but there were far more good ones than bad ones. Also, they were playing an NFL caliber defense, something yall seem to forgot every single game. The Bucs made plays. Their paid to do so. We didn't make every play we could have. It happens. But 24 points should be enough to win most games. Only 11 teams last year averaged 24 points or more. That means 65% of the league averaged less than the 24 points we scored yesterday. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, A Dog Named Brian said:

Let's get rid of them both, release/trade everyone on the team also, and demolish the Dome along with the new Stadium so there isn't a trace of an NFL Football team left in GA

Tell you what there going to demolish the stadium hahahaha.

Seriously though I think it rings true Ryan isn't a good fit for what Shanahan wants to do I've accepted this and it's only magnified when we can't run the ball and inside the red-zone.They were issues year 1 and the beginning of year 2 they still are.

I don't normally go after scenarios like this but what you present of blowing the place up yes is a low% but can't be taken off the table.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, vel said:

Why are we still complaining about Kyle? 

That most annoying part about yall complaining about Kyle is that it has nothing to do with anything other than "I didn't like him when we hired him" and his failure/firing would vindicate your intelligence. The offense and Kyle were not the primary issue yesterday. A defense that gives up 31 points doesn't give the team much of a chance to win. You know how many teams averaged over 30 points scored last year? Two. You know how many allowed over 30? Zero. 

The offense played a good game yesterday. Yes, there were some bad calls, but there were far more good ones than bad ones. Also, they were playing an NFL caliber defense, something yall seem to forgot every single game. The Bucs made plays. Their paid to do so. We didn't make every play we could have. It happens. But 24 points should be enough to win most games. Only 11 teams last year averaged 24 points or more. That means 65% of the league averaged less than the 24 points we scored yesterday. 

Let's be honest -- Kyle's defense played like **** yesterday.

Also, Kyle's management of the section 243 hot dog and beer stand is questionable.  And I'm pretty sure he crop dusted my seat before the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Tell you what there going to demolish the stadium hahahaha.

Seriously though I think it rings true Ryan isn't a good fit for what Shanahan wants to do I've accepted this and it's only magnified when we can't run the ball and inside the red-zone.They were issues year 1 and the beginning of year 2 they still are.

I don't normally go after scenarios like this but what you present of blowing the place up yes is a low% but can't be taken off the table.

Obvious hyperbole, but still. Might have to take another little sabbatical from this place. People are going nuts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, A Dog Named Brian said:

Let's get rid of them both, release/trade everyone on the team also, and demolish the Dome along with the new Stadium so there isn't a trace of an NFL Football team left in GA

that's way too much work to do considering how close we are NOW to not having any trace of a professional football team here  

 

:ninja:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Seriously though I think it rings true Ryan isn't a good fit for what Shanahan wants to do I've accepted this and it's only magnified when we can't run the ball and inside the red-zone.They were issues year 1 and the beginning of year 2 they still are.

Wait, Ryan supposedly not being a good fit for Shanahan is responsible for us not being able to run the ball?  Seriously?

If 27/39, 334 yards, 2 TDs (and a 2-point conversion), 69% completion percentage and 112.6 passer rating isn't a good fit, someone tell me what the **** is.  This is getting ridiculous.

We lost.  It's not Shanahan's fault.  It's not Ryan's fault.  Step back about 10 steps and take another look at the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Tell you what there going to demolish the stadium hahahaha.

Seriously though I think it rings true Ryan isn't a good fit for what Shanahan wants to do I've accepted this and it's only magnified when we can't run the ball and inside the red-zone.They were issues year 1 and the beginning of year 2 they still are.

I don't normally go after scenarios like this but what you present of blowing the place up yes is a low% but can't be taken off the table.

What is this based on? How is Ryan not a good fit but Schaub was and Hoyer was? Why is Ryan so different? Yes, Kyle dominated with RG3 in 2012, but acting like Ryan isn't a fit is an excuse based on little factual evidence. He struggled year one. After one game, it looks like Ryan has settled down a good bit. 334 yards and 2 TDs with no boneheaded decisions? Somehow he still doesn't fit this offense right?

1 minute ago, JDaveG said:

Let's be honest -- Kyle's defense played like **** yesterday.

Also, Kyle's management of the section 243 hot dog and beer stand is questionable.  And I'm pretty sure he crop dusted my seat before the game.

Exactly! The defense didn't help the offense. I knew going into this season we were going to be on a roller coaster ride with this defense. I said it in my first thread back. Sunday was a low point. All of the issues that happened on defense yesterday are fixable. It wasn't for lack of talent like yesterday. Kyle and Matt did enough to win 6 games we lost last year (Bucs, Niners, Colts, Vikings, Bucs, Saints) if we could simply score 24 points in those games. Yet, Kyle is the popular punching bag. Forget what actually happened in the game, Kyle just sucks and he needs to go for everything!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Let's be honest -- Kyle's defense played like **** yesterday.

Also, Kyle's management of the section 243 hot dog and beer stand is questionable.  And I'm pretty sure he crop dusted my seat before the game.

I crop dusted your seat, I got my foot caught between two seats subsequently ****ting my pants as I fell pas your chair on my way to discuss the read option with Kyle at said beer stand, unfortunately I was unable to find him because the directions he gave me led me in a circle and I was unable to come within 20 yards of reaching the hotdog stand

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, A Dog Named Brian said:

Obvious hyperbole, but still. Might have to take another little sabbatical from this place. People are going nuts

Don't man it makes my resolve even stronger to get behind the team.

I agree fans are going nuts but I can understand why.

They are wondering why we are still haven't fixed the issues that ale us.

Red-zone offense Penalties and Pass Rush.Until we see improvement in these we'll be hearing the samething.

If I were to pick one huge off season move they'd off load Ryan before the staff and go after a QB in the draft that is a true WCO QB because Ryan just isn't. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, SkerFalcon8710 said:

I crop dusted your seat, I got my foot caught between two seats subsequently ****ting my pants as I fell pas your chair on my way to discuss the read option with Kyle at said beer stand, unfortunately I was unable to find him because the directions he gave me led me in a circle and I was unable to come within 20 yards of reaching the hotdog stand

I don't know, man -- I still wanna blame Kyle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Don't man it makes my resolve even stronger to get behind the team.

I agree fans are going nuts but I can understand why.

They are wondering why we are still haven't fixed the issues that ale us.

Red-zone offense Penalties and Pass Rush.Until we see improvement in these we'll be hearing the samething.

If I were to pick one huge off season move they'd off load Ryan before the staff and go after a QB in the draft that is a true WCO QB because Ryan just isn't. 

I'm going to be honest, that offense actually looked pretty good to me, considering it was a division game. We can nitpick little errors here and there, but every QB has those during any given game. And yea, some of the offensive play calls were head scratchers, but, that defense lost it for us yesterday, plain and simple. 

Edited by A Dog Named Brian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, A Dog Named Brian said:

I'm going to be honest, that offense actually looked pretty good to me, considering that was a division game. We can nitpick little errors here and there, but every QB has those during any given game. And yea, some of the offensive play calls were head scratchers, but, that defense lost it for us yesterday, plain and simple. 

If the offense had given up 2-3 turnovers and left the defense on the field the whole game, I'd understand the argument.  But man, people are just nuts with this "blame Shanahan at all costs" thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Wait, Ryan supposedly not being a good fit for Shanahan is responsible for us not being able to run the ball?  Seriously?

If 27/39, 334 yards, 2 TDs (and a 2-point conversion), 69% completion percentage and 112.6 passer rating isn't a good fit, someone tell me what the **** is.  This is getting ridiculous.

We lost.  It's not Shanahan's fault.  It's not Ryan's fault.  Step back about 10 steps and take another look at the game.

From what I've seen inside the red zone I'm not sold.You both know inbetween the 20s the yards are a very deceptive stat.I hate watching a guy like Ryan struggle like he is in the most important area of the field.

Yesterday he was pretty decent but over the period he's struggled under the pump an take away any sought of running game we can't win.

27/39 334 2TDs passer rating 112.6 69% completion yet a loss is a loss.No running game stats are meaningless if we don't give this to Ryan stats be ****ed we'll lose more than we'll win. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, JDaveG said:

If the offense had given up 2-3 turnovers and left the defense on the field the whole game, I'd understand the argument.  But man, people are just nuts with this "blame Shanahan at all costs" thing.

It's funny how defense was keeping us in a lot of games last year (I actually look forward to watching our defense now) and they absolutely laid an egg. There were some positives on that side of the ball though, defense looks faster, linebackers actually look good, and I can't wait to see what we're going to look like with a healthy Neal back there roamin' around

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, kiwifalcon said:

From what I've seen inside the red zone I'm not sold.You both know inbetween the 20s the yards are a very deceptive stat.I hate watching a guy like Ryan struggle like he is in the most important area of the field.

Yesterday he was pretty decent but over the period he's struggled under the pump an take away any sought of running game we can't win.

27/39 334 2TDs passer rating 112.6 69% completion yet a loss is a loss.No running game stats are meaningless if we don't give this to Ryan stats be ****ed we'll lose more than we'll win. 

Yes, a loss is a loss.  But if the defense gives up 31 a game, you're going to see a lot more losses, and none of them will have anything to do with the OC or QB either.

"We lost, ergo Kyle sucks" is a terrible excuse for reasoning.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

From what I've seen inside the red zone I'm not sold.You both know inbetween the 20s the yards are a very deceptive stat.I hate watching a guy like Ryan struggle like he is in the most important area of the field.

Yesterday he was pretty decent but over the period he's struggled under the pump an take away any sought of running game we can't win.

27/39 334 2TDs passer rating 112.6 69% completion yet a loss is a loss.No running game stats are meaningless if we don't give this to Ryan stats be ****ed we'll lose more than we'll win. 

Normally, I would agree here, but Ryan threaded the needle getting that one to Sanu. Red Zone offense is tough either way, I'll reserve further judgement on how effective we can be in that area of the field going forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Quinn has loyalty to Kyle over Ryan and they'll look for a new QB soon. Thing is Kyle has no clue what a good QB looks like, he got into it with the Houston F/O when they wouldn't pick John Beck as their QB with the 7th overall pick. If Blank is half the business man I think he is he'll fire Kyle and take roster control away from Quinn, if not we will be picking in the top 10 the next 3-4 years

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

If the offense had given up 2-3 turnovers and left the defense on the field the whole game, I'd understand the argument.  But man, people are just nuts with this "blame Shanahan at all costs" thing.

being the known shahanan hater that I am, even I don't blame yesterdays debacle in the dome on ole Kyle,

 

well except maybe he should be teaching more of the guys how to play defense and intercept the ball like he did back in training camp

 

:ninja:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, papachaz said:

being the known shahanan hater that I am, even I don't blame yesterdays debacle in the dome on ole Kyle,

 

well except maybe he should be teaching more of the guys how to play defense and intercept the ball like he did back in training camp

 

:ninja:

:lol:

Tru was the only one who was listening.

Maybe Hooper, but I'm not yet convinced of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People want it to be Kyle because they couldn't fathom Matt having a down season last year. That was impossible. Before week six, this entire place was scared we were going to lose Kyle. Then, Matt started struggling and somehow it became "Kyle is a terrible OC" not "Matt is struggling to learn a new offense just like most QBs do". 

We can't fathom the golden child that brought promise to this franchise for once struggling. It MUST be the OC. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is a mistake to fit the QB to the OC.  Most coordinators that are really good will have better offers before the QB contract expires.  The QB is the talent, the leader in most cases.  Matt Ryan is a very good QB.  His skill level is not the issue.  There is no doubt another coordinator could get better results than we are seeing under Shanahan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...