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Don't let the score fool you, we only had one good offensive drive yesterday


bdog 29
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Yesterday after watching the game, I was ranting and raving to my friends about how we need to get rid of Shanahan and that his offense was garbage. They rightfully pointed out that we scored 24 points and the main reason we lost was because we gave up 31 points. It was hard to counter this because though I saw that the defense played terribly in spots, I felt like the offense was worse and I actually put more blame on them. After thinking it over I realized why that is.

It's easy to say we scored 24 points so you can't blame the offense too much but we only scored two TDs. One of them was set up by Tru's INT (points to the defense on that one). That play set us up nicely in the redzone and even then it was a struggle to get theTD that we did.

The other TD came right after we went down 31-13 and Ryan went into the no huddle. We moved the ball pretty easily and I want to say part of that was because Tampa backed off a bit but I'll give credit where it's due, we got the TD. Aside from that, our offense was anemic. I think the drive that best summarized it was the final one. We had poorly thrown balls (the pass that Sanu got hurt on), drops, and stalled runs. It was all too fitting that it ended with a batted ball on the last play.

So take away the gift the defense gave us and we have a near-blowout. I don't know if it's Shanahan's actual offense or his playcall (why the **** are you running a toss in the redzone), our offense isn't that good. Watching Dirk Koetter's offense carve us up yesterday **** near brought a tear to my eye because we used to look like that. Go watch highlights of the 2012 team, some of the play designs were amazing. The Lions game stands out particularly to me. We'd been running WR slip screens all season and when the Lions keyed in on it, we faked that and threw a bomb to Roddy. Right now all of our WR routes are crossing routes and ins where we hope for the WR to make YAC.

Sorry to wax poetic about Dirk Koetter but having such a stark contrast in one game shows how weak our (Shanahan's) offense is. I hope we can turn it around at some point but I really don't think this offense is built for our personnel or even the NFL of 2016.

Edited by bdog 29
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3 hours ago, bdog 29 said:

Yesterday after watching the game, I was ranting and raving to my friends about how we need to get rid of Shanahan and that his offense was garbage. They rightfully pointed out that we scored 24 points and the main reason we lost was because we gave up 31 points. It was hard to counter this because though I saw that the defense played terribly in spots, I felt like the offense was worse and I actually put more blame on them. After thinking it over I realized why that is.

It's easy to say we scored 24 points so you can't blame the offense too much but we only scored two TDs. One of them was set up by Tru's INT (points to the defense on that one). That play set us up nicely in the redzone and even then it was a struggle to get theTD that we did.

The other TD came right after we went down 31-13 and Ryan went into the no huddle. We moved the ball pretty easily and I want to say part of that was because Tampa backed off a bit but I'll give credit where it's due, we got the TD. Aside from that, our offense was anemic. I think the drive that best summarized it was the final one. We had poorly thrown balls (the pass that Sanu got hurt on), drops, and stalled runs. It was all too fitting that it ended with a batted ball on the last play.

So take away the gift the defense gave us and we have a near-blowout. I don't know if it's Shanahan's actual offense or his playcall (why the **** are you running a toss in the redzone), our offense isn't that good. Watching Dirk Koetter's offense carve us up yesterday **** near brought a tear to my eye because we used to look like that. Go watch highlights of the 2012 team, some of the play designs were amazing. The Lions game stands out particularly to me. We'd been running WR slip screens all season and when the Lions keyed in on it, we faked that and threw a bomb to Roddy. Right now all of our WR routes are crossing routes and ins where we hope for the WR to make YAC.

Sorry to wax poetic about Dirk Koetter but having such a stark contrast in one game shows how weak our (Shanahan's) offense is. I hope we can turn it around at some point but I really don't think this offense is built for our d personnel or even the NFL of 2016.

Yeah I just rewatched the game and it looked like Tampa was prepared for what we were bringing on offense.

We had a couple of plays but for the most part Tampa was ready.  Of course the run blocking and pass protection were bad so that really didn't help.

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11 minutes ago, R_The_Great said:

We haven't been happy with any offensive coordinator on a consistent year to year basis.  Maybe the problem is matt ryan

Koetter is here, he's garbage. He leaves and he's the best we've had. Two of Ryan's offensive coordinators are head coaches today. Maybe it's because they saw the work they did masking Ryan's deficiencies and putting together good-great offenses. 

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52 minutes ago, Power I said:

Koetter is here, he's garbage. He leaves and he's the best we've had. Two of Ryan's offensive coordinators are head coaches today. Maybe it's because they saw the work they did masking Ryan's deficiencies and putting together good-great offenses. 

Koetter was never garbage. The fanbase was frustrated after the 2013 and 2014 seasons and wanted to get rid of everyone so the loudest voices were saying Koetter was garbage along with Smith, TD, and Nolan.

I on the otherhand recognized that we needed a new HC and GM but I really wanted to keep Koetter. Like Roddy said last year, our offense was never the problem. We were regularly putting up a lot of points even with the likes of Harry Douglas as our #1. The only problem with Koetter was our lack of a rungame and I thought that came down to our piss poor o line and trodding out the corpse of Steven Jackson every game. Koetter also had a tendency of getting away from the run if it wasn't working but I think that wouldn't have been as much of an issue if our o line and RBs weren't so crappy.

Even then I thought Koetter did a masterful job of masking our lack of run game with WR screens and quick short passes. I really hoped when I found out that Smith got fired that we'd figure out a way to keep Koetter but I knew it was unlikely. I also knew Jameis would do really well with him as coordinator because he maximizes the talent around him. The offense he ran in Jacksonville was completely different from the one he ran here because the had no WRs and a pretty good MJD. When he came here, he completely changed it up because we had beastly receivers and no running game. That is the mark of a good OC, not some arrogant jackass who forces players into schemes which they clearly aren't built for.

We really missed out by not recognizing the talent we had when we had it and the Bucs are reaping the benefits of our oversight.

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While I agree somewhat, it was the 1st game of the season and we lost primarily because our defense was atrocious in the 2nd half. Yes we could have done better on O, but our main concern is on D.

People need to relax, remember last year when we started off 5-0 and our offense was destroying everyone? And then we went on to suck balls the rest of the year. Well, it was only week 1. We could see a complete turn around (this time for the better). 

I agree about the HB toss. I have never ever ever ever been a fan of that play. Dumbest play in the NFL IMO, but if everyone executes their job, the plays will work. 

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I have to agree for the most part with the OP. Coming into the game I thought we'd try to establish the run so that we'd control the time of possession, giving our D ample rest. We failed miserably, the play calling seemed like we were just trying different things. If this is all we can muster with arguably the best receiver/decoy in the game, could you imagine if we didn't have Julio?  All in all it's just one game so I'll take it at that, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't worrisome.

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1 hour ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Yeah I just rewatched the game and it looked like Tampa was prepared for what we were bringing on offense.

We had a couple of plays but for the most part Tampa was ready.  Of course the run blocking and pass protection were bad so that really didn't help.

but but but.......when hired, quinn specifically said that he wanted kyle because kyle was hard for him to game plan against!!!!!! 

 

so that might just be more incriminating of quinn than shanahan if you analyze it thoroughly.....as a HC and as DC......

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4 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

Offense did fine. The only issue was 3rd down. The bucs were in the same boat. By this logic the bucs only had a couple good drives. Yet we still out yarded them and was more efficient. Neither offense was good on 3rd down so give credit to both defenses. 

None of the Bucs scores were set up by their defense (mostly our stupid penalties) and they had a couple of huge plays which led to scores in both the run and pass game. You can't say that for us so I don't even know why you'd make that comparison.

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9 hours ago, bdog 29 said:

Yesterday after watching the game, I was ranting and raving to my friends about how we need to get rid of Shanahan and that his offense was garbage. They rightfully pointed out that we scored 24 points and the main reason we lost was because we gave up 31 points. It was hard to counter this because though I saw that the defense played terribly in spots, I felt like the offense was worse and I actually put more blame on them. After thinking it over I realized why that is.

It's easy to say we scored 24 points so you can't blame the offense too much but we only scored two TDs. One of them was set up by Tru's INT (points to the defense on that one). That play set us up nicely in the redzone and even then it was a struggle to get theTD that we did.

The other TD came right after we went down 31-13 and Ryan went into the no huddle. We moved the ball pretty easily and I want to say part of that was because Tampa backed off a bit but I'll give credit where it's due, we got the TD. Aside from that, our offense was anemic. I think the drive that best summarized it was the final one. We had poorly thrown balls (the pass that Sanu got hurt on), drops, and stalled runs. It was all too fitting that it ended with a batted ball on the last play.

So take away the gift the defense gave us and we have a near-blowout. I don't know if it's Shanahan's actual offense or his playcall (why the **** are you running a toss in the redzone), our offense isn't that good. Watching Dirk Koetter's offense carve us up yesterday **** near brought a tear to my eye because we used to look like that. Go watch highlights of the 2012 team, some of the play designs were amazing. The Lions game stands out particularly to me. We'd been running WR slip screens all season and when the Lions keyed in on it, we faked that and threw a bomb to Roddy. Right now all of our WR routes are crossing routes and ins where we hope for the WR to make YAC.

Sorry to wax poetic about Dirk Koetter but having such a stark contrast in one game shows how weak our (Shanahan's) offense is. I hope we can turn it around at some point but I really don't think this offense is built for our personnel or even the NFL of 2016.

I just see Ryan playing scared (as in not to throw any interceptions). Even prior to Kyle's arrival, remember what the offense looked like the last two years with Dirk? Nothing but dink and dunk. We became anemic as well and defenses weren't afraid of getting beat deep by Ryan. Ryan doesn't test defenses anymore because under Coach Smith, team was so uptight that every mistake was deflating. I remembered games under Dirk and Mularkey where we would hear about some team devastated by injuries and have to use cornerbacks from the streets to defend Julio and Roddy. Yet they will have great games against us because Ryan rarely tests them.

 

Same thing happened during the last few years under Mularkey as well. We became dink and dunk offense.

All these problems with the offense looking anemic didn't just start when Kyle got here. Quinn is trying to help Matt get his mojo back. He has to pay differently. This offense allows that. Give it time y'all.

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Sorry but this just isn't a rational view.  I mean if we take away Tampa's last drive in the 1st half with the Sims missed tackle play then we are ahead 13-10.  Unfortunately in the NFL you don't get to play the take away game.  

That said, I've re-watched the 1st half and the KS hate is just as unfounded as I suspected.

The first drive was all about trying to establish Freeman and the run.  Sure, the drive was a 3 and out but it set up the first play of the 2nd drive.

The second drive starts off with the play action big gainer to Sanu that was all set up by the first drive.  The Bucs defense played the run hard and got burned by it.  Well scripted by KS.  Here was the first red zone opportunity.  1st play is a quick screen to Sanu for 4 yards setting up 2nd and 6 (which is what you want).  Another short pass complete to Hardy but for no gain, still leaves 3rd and manageable.  Why did the drive stall?  Jake Matthews whiffs on Ayers to get the sack on Ryan.  That's got nothing to do with playcalling, the offensive system, nor Shanahan's mother.  It had everything to do with Matthews allowing a sack.

The third drive starts with a drop by Sanu which instead of being a 1st down now makes it 2nd and 10.  Not sure why Ryan ran on this one (all-22 will answer it later) but even if something had been converted it wouldn't have counted as Matthews was guilty of hands to the face.  This drive stalled due to lack of execution from play #1,.

The fourth drive is the TD you referenced.  Why was that red zone opportunity a struggle?  Right out the gate there's a false start on Tamme.  Despite that, the shovel pass gets 11 and sets up 2nd and 4.  Freeman goes off LT for 3 to set up 3rd and 1.  A nice play action pass to Tamme to the goal line overcomes his earlier mistake.  Then there's a false start on Hooper to back it up to the 6.  Ryan hits Sanu in the back of the endzone for a TD.  Now why was this a struggle?  Two pre-snap penalties.  The playcalling, system, etc. actually overcame it for the score.

The fifth drive stalls out but did gain good yardage.  Had Grimes not made a great play on Hardy, that drive might have continued (see, there's that takeaway thing again but that doesn't work in the NFL)

The sixth drive has Ryan going deep to Julio but there had to have been a miscommunication (again, all-22 will clear that up later).  Then the big screen to Coleman setting up the 3rd red zone opportunity.  From the 10, Freeman goes up the gut for 3.  A block got missed I suspect and the shovel pass gets blown up for a 5 yard loss.  At 3rd and 12, we were going for the TD but Matthews commits a false start.  At 3rd and 17, Dan Quinn decides on the draw play instead of going for the TD (that's his words not mine) so KS can't be blamed for that one. Who knows what would have happened on that 3rd and 12 had Matthews not false started but once again, there's no take aways in the NFL.  Maybe we'd have scored another touchdown.

 

There's the first half in a nutshell for you.  Absolutely nothing wrong with the playcalling or the offense in the first half...

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38 minutes ago, capologist said:

Sorry but this just isn't a rational view.  I mean if we take away Tampa's last drive in the 1st half with the Sims missed tackle play then we are ahead 13-10.  Unfortunately in the NFL you don't get to play the take away game.  

That said, I've re-watched the 1st half and the KS hate is just as unfounded as I suspected.

The first drive was all about trying to establish Freeman and the run.  Sure, the drive was a 3 and out but it set up the first play of the 2nd drive.

The second drive starts off with the play action big gainer to Sanu that was all set up by the first drive.  The Bucs defense played the run hard and got burned by it.  Well scripted by KS.  Here was the first red zone opportunity.  1st play is a quick screen to Sanu for 4 yards setting up 2nd and 6 (which is what you want).  Another short pass complete to Hardy but for no gain, still leaves 3rd and manageable.  Why did the drive stall?  Jake Matthews whiffs on Ayers to get the sack on Ryan.  That's got nothing to do with playcalling, the offensive system, nor Shanahan's mother.  It had everything to do with Matthews allowing a sack.

The third drive starts with a drop by Sanu which instead of being a 1st down now makes it 2nd and 10.  Not sure why Ryan ran on this one (all-22 will answer it later) but even if something had been converted it wouldn't have counted as Matthews was guilty of hands to the face.  This drive stalled due to lack of execution from play #1,.

The fourth drive is the TD you referenced.  Why was that red zone opportunity a struggle?  Right out the gate there's a false start on Tamme.  Despite that, the shovel pass gets 11 and sets up 2nd and 4.  Freeman goes off LT for 3 to set up 3rd and 1.  A nice play action pass to Tamme to the goal line overcomes his earlier mistake.  Then there's a false start on Hooper to back it up to the 6.  Ryan hits Sanu in the back of the endzone for a TD.  Now why was this a struggle?  Two pre-snap penalties.  The playcalling, system, etc. actually overcame it for the score.

The fifth drive stalls out but did gain good yardage.  Had Grimes not made a great play on Hardy, that drive might have continued (see, there's that takeaway thing again but that doesn't work in the NFL)

The sixth drive has Ryan going deep to Julio but there had to have been a miscommunication (again, all-22 will clear that up later).  Then the big screen to Coleman setting up the 3rd red zone opportunity.  From the 10, Freeman goes up the gut for 3.  A block got missed I suspect and the shovel pass gets blown up for a 5 yard loss.  At 3rd and 12, we were going for the TD but Matthews commits a false start.  At 3rd and 17, Dan Quinn decides on the draw play instead of going for the TD (that's his words not mine) so KS can't be blamed for that one. Who knows what would have happened on that 3rd and 12 had Matthews not false started but once again, there's no takeaways in the NFL.  Maybe we'd have scored another touchdown.

 

There's the first half in a nutshell for you.  Absolutely nothing wrong with the playcalling or the offense in the first half...

People are looking for problems to reinforce their preconceived notions of why we would fail that were set up in the offseason.

The reasons we failed are quite simple, poor OG play, and a young, inexperienced, and thus inconsistent defense. 

There were other lesser issues sure, but those were the primaries, that and the penalties.

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