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Tevin Coleman will eventually get more carries than Freeman...


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Defenses have figured out that Shanahan, either whether by design, or not having trust in Ryan or the offensive line, is not running deep routes.  They are starting to stack the box because of the short routes the Falcons are running.  This means that Coleman, a bigger faster back than Freeman, is gonna get even more carries until Shanahan starts trusting Ryan or that line. I like both backs, but Coleman hits that hole like a back should. The line doesn't have to hold a block as long as when they do for Freeman. Again, with safeties creeping up now, expect to see more of Coleman...

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Coleman is one of the fastest backs in the league.  I expect to start seeing him lined up on the outside the way the Cardinals do with Doug Johnson.  

Watching the Cards do that, i listened to the analyst say how having him move out there from the backfield would give Carson Palmer an indication as to the defense being in zone coverage or not based on who moved to cover him.  Which then sets up other quick pass options based on that information.  Interesting stuff.

Meanwhile Coleman is so fast and can catch so just running a go route woth him single covered on the outside can lead to some huge plays if Ryan can lay the ball out there for him to run under.

Edited by Beachwitter
Fat fingers.
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1 minute ago, ya_boi_j said:

I'm willing to bet that was the plan all along until Freeman stepped up last year. Coleman pretty much fumbled his way out of the starting lineup to go along with the injuries

Wow. We agree on something. Yes, Coleman was the man before he started dropping the ball. He has established himself again. You can tell thats the way the Falcons wanna go now...

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3 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

I'm willing to bet that was the plan all along until Freeman stepped up last year. Coleman pretty much fumbled his way out of the starting lineup to go along with the injuries

Definetly was. I bet Shanny even was a big reason Colemen was drafted. I think Freemen hits the hole a lot faster then Colemen though. Freemen has better vision. Colemen just plunges into the line if the whole is there or not. Sometimes it works most times it doesn't. Fast can only get you so far. In zone blocking vision is key

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4 minutes ago, Beachwitter said:

Coleman is one of the fastest backs in the league.  I expect to start seeing him lined up on the outside the way the Cardinals do with Doug Johnson.  

Watching the Cards do that, i listened to the analyst say how having him move out there from the backfield would give Carson Palmer an indication as to the defense being in zone coverage or not based on who moved to cover him.  Which then sets up other quick pass options based on that information.  Interesting stuff.

Meanwhile Coleman is so fast and can catch so just running a go route woth him single covered on the outside can lead to some huge plays if Ryan can lay the ball out there for him to run under.

Excellent observation. I saw the Cowboys do that last night with Elliot. They had him line up wide as a receiver.  The cornerback followed him out there, then when Elliot ran back into the formation and lined up as a back, the corner moved back to the formation. I didn't notice what the coverage behind him was doing. Excellent observation.

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14 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Defenses have figured out that Shanahan, either whether by design, or not having trust in Ryan or the offensive line, is not running deep routes.  They are starting to stack the box because of the short routes the Falcons are running.  This means that Coleman, a bigger faster back than Freeman, is gonna get even more carries until Shanahan starts trusting Ryan or that line. I like both backs, but Coleman hits that hole like a back should. The line doesn't have to hold a block as long as when they do for Freeman. Again, with safeties creeping up now, expect to see more of Coleman...

I agree with the first part of your post, but I completely disagree Coleman is better in a stacked box. He may be a little bigger, but I think his and Freeman's power is about the same because Coleman runs more upright.

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2 minutes ago, Nino11 said:

Definetly was. I bet Shanny even was a big reason Colemen was drafted. I think Freemen hits the hole a lot faster then Colemen though. Freemen has better vision. Colemen just plunges into the line if the whole is there or not. Sometimes it works most times it doesn't. Fast can only get you so far. In zone blocking vision is key

The key for a RB in zone blocking is someone has to block first. There were no holes for even Gale Sayers to be successful yesterday. 

Falcons plan is for a two back rotation, riding the hot hand either free and/or Coleman 

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4 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

I agree with the first part of your post, but I completely disagree Coleman is better in a stacked box. He may be a little bigger, but I think his and Freeman's power is about the same because Coleman runs more upright.

Coleman hits the hole faster.  They both have power, but the line doesn't have to hold a block as long for Coleman.

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7 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Excellent observation. I saw the Cowboys do that last night with Elliot. They had him line up wide as a receiver.  The cornerback followed him out there, then when Elliot ran back into the formation and lined up as a back, the corner moved back to the formation. I didn't notice what the coverage behind him was doing. Excellent observation.

Yeah i noticed that using that to determine zone coverage that Carson would throw a quick hit to the flats like we often do w Julio of it were a Zone for an easy 5+ yards. We could really utilize this.  Although id rather we stop using Julio for it and having him get tackled 

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1 minute ago, Beachwitter said:

Yeah i noticed that using that to determine zone coverage that Carson would throw a quick hit to the flats like we often do w Julio of it were a Zone for an easy 5+ yards. We could really utilize this.  Although id rather we stop using Julio for it and having him get tackled 

I agree. They got Julio doing infantry work. That should be Sanu or Hardy, exclusively, down in the box getting hammered like that...

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4 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

I agree. They got Julio doing infantry work. That should be Sanu or Hardy, exclusively, down in the box getting hammered like that...

Yeah it drove me nuts last year.  They are shortening his career with a pllay they can use a pedestrian receiver for.  Julio is a home run hitter not a **** shortstop who hits singles.   Watching him catch those and get tackled by 3 guys makes me cringe everytime.  And for what?  A short gain that really has no chance of breaking long because there are always 2 people glued to Julio.   Toss it out to someone else while Juluo is on the other side of the field drawing defense away ffs!

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1 minute ago, Beachwitter said:

Yeah it drove me nuts last year.  They are shortening his career with a pllay they can use a pedestrian receiver for.  Julio is a home run hitter not a **** shortstop who hits singles.   Watching him catch those and get tackled by 3 guys makes me cringe everytime.  And for what?  A short gain that really has no chance of breaking long because there are always 2 people glued to Julio.   Toss it out to someone else while Juluo is on the other side of the field drawing defense away ffs!

Like i've said in numerous posts: Shanahan either doesn't trust the line, Ryan, or both...He rarely lets Ryan throw deep. I'm thinking they are hiding Ryan noodle arm. Honestly, thats what i'm thinking...

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12 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Coleman hits the hole faster.  They both have power, but the line doesn't have to hold a block as long for Coleman.

That's because Freeman does what a ZBS/stretch back is supposed to do. You move laterally until the seam opens. Then you accelerate. You don't just go plowing into the back of your blockers.

Freeman runs very similar to Warrick Dunn. Maybe a little less speed, equal acceleration, and more power. I bet you didn't like Warrick either.

We sit in the end zone and can see the holes. Yesterday, I saw a decent seam on exactly ONE play.

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2 hours ago, ya_boi_j said:

I'm willing to bet that was the plan all along until Freeman stepped up last year. Coleman pretty much fumbled his way out of the starting lineup to go along with the injuries

 

2 hours ago, Nino11 said:

Definetly was. I bet Shanny even was a big reason Colemen was drafted. I think Freemen hits the hole a lot faster then Colemen though. Freemen has better vision. Colemen just plunges into the line if the whole is there or not. Sometimes it works most times it doesn't. Fast can only get you so far. In zone blocking vision is key

It's gonna snow in ****

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Nobody could do anything in the running game yesterday.  If there are no holes, no back will have a good day.  I think we saw the dimension that Coleman can bring.  I've always been a big proponent of speed and ability.  Coleman has the speed, now lets see if he has the ability to be a successful RB on the NFL level.  Freeman has done it, so we know he can be successful if given a hole.  He is way more quick than fast and changes direction on a dime.  There is a place for both of these guys.  I could see Coleman eating into carries, if and only if the OL can open holes.  If there are no holes, neither guy is going to be successful.

Edited by isproab
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To me, the two backs are different.

Coleman is an upright burner with average balance and power. He's a one cut slasher. He hits the hole quick, makes maybe one cut, and if you don't catch him then. he's gone. A slightly smaller Eric Dickerson if you will. A back like this will be effective in outside screens, flare routes, wheel routes, toss sweeps (Dickerson's forte), and even more so, quick hitting traps up the middle. We had one quick trap yesterday that had their LB not made a great play, it was a TD. We need much more of that with Coleman because he will surely pop a couple. It's also a good way to negate an aggressive pass rush. And God knows, we'll see a lot of that.

Freeman is a classic ZBS back. Small to fit through tiny seams. His lack of height is an advantage because he can hide behind blockers. Good lateral vision and movement, GREAT acceleration, and average speed. He has decent power for a back his size. Once again, he's a slower Warrick Dunn but with more power. Freeman is perfect for the inside/outside zone, dump passes over the middle, pass protection (lateral vision and quickness), and even potentially on the goal line if you can get a tiny bit of push. Dunn was a surprisingly effective goal line back. 

Freeman is more suited for the workhorse in this particular scheme. But Coleman is a VERY VERY dangerous change of pace. If you complement that with occasional runs from a true power back, or even a fullback, then you can pretty much do ANYTHING you want to do running the ball.

If there's one thing I'm certain of with the 2016 Falcons, our running backs are NOT the problem. We just need to use them properly. I LOVED the 2-back stuff Shanahan put in yesterday. 

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15 minutes ago, isproab said:

Nobody could do anything in the running game yesterday.  If there on no holes, no back will have a good day.  I think we saw the dimension that Coleman can bring.  I've always been a big proponent of speed and ability.  Coleman has the speed, now lets see if he has the ability to be a successful RB on the NFL level.  Freeman has done it, so we know he can be successful if given a hole.  He is way more quick than fast and changes direction on a dime.  There is a place for both of these guys.  I could see Coleman eating into carries, if and only if the OL can open holes.  If there are no holes, neither guy is going to be successful.

Well said. Tampa obviously came into game wanting to take away our run game, and they did exactly that. Hopefully, that pizzed off our entire OL so they come out next week with the right mindset.. 

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My issue with Coleman is this. He's very fast, hence the reason he's excellent in the passing game. His problem is, he's just not an instinctive player in the run game. It's a one direction mentality. 

Freeman doesn't seem to have long term excellence written on him because of his physical limitations, but he's very instinctive. That makes him more reliable in the here and now, imo.

 

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