Jump to content

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, Sobeit said:

Yeah. There was the initial shooting then he exited a club in which there was over 300 people in and then he went back in and took the remaining 200 plus hostage? Yeah I need to hear more details of this because it is amazing to me how he was not bum  rushed by 6 or 7 people. All it would have took is 2 people with situational awareness and this would have been over before it started.

Believe it or not, your first reaction to being shot at is not to rush towards it, but to get down. You don't even have to think about it, your knees will automatically do it for you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 530
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

8 minutes ago, mdrake34 said:

I figured the ****goonery into which this thread would surely devolve would have begun with blanket statements about Islam being a violent religion, so I'm surprised to see it begins with potential victim blaming.

Who said that?

Edit; nevermind. totally misread your post.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, SpongeDad said:

Believe it or not, your first reaction to being shot at is not to rush towards it, but to get down. You don't even have to think about it, your knees will automatically do it for you.

I'm very familiar with combat. My 1st response is to cover and determine where it came from. Actually I would expect most of these people ran and had no idea where they were running. We know some made it to the bathroom because they sent text. Which would have been a good place to ambush the guy if he came back there if others had made it. On the floor is the last place you want to be and running away is the 2nd worst thing to do unless you are specifically getting out or have a plan.  It is a tragedy and I always always left wondering how many of these people were shot in the back or lying on the floor or cowering in the corner when they would have been better off charging the attacker.

Edited by Sobeit
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SpongeDad said:

I know, it seems unbelievable one man can kill 50 with just an AR and a handgun. The people had to be tightly packed together on the dance floor, and each round went through multiple people.  

AR rounds have a higher tendency to ICE pick their targets, so it possible some of the rounds went through multiple people in a crowed area. Civilian rounds are more devastating to single targets that are not wearing body armor as they have a lot better to chance to yaw or fragment in the target. Hollow Point rounds are so devastating that they are prohibited by the NATO Hague Convention 

Edited by Brehus
Link to post
Share on other sites

Father: Orlando shooter was enraged by same-sex kiss

 

While no one may ever know what was truly going on in the head of the man who shot over 100 people at a gay Florida nightclub early Sunday, his family says he may have been motivated by pure hate against the LGBT community.

Various law enforcement officials have identified the shooter at the Pulse Nightclub in Orlando as Omar Mateen, 29, who was born in New York and lived in Port St. Lucie on Florida's eastern shores.

The attack, which claimed at least 50 lives, is considered the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history. While, authorities are still investigating what motivated the gunman, the shooting is being considered an act of terrorism.

Mateen, who was carrying a handgun and AR-15-type rifle, died after a SWAT team stormed the club, police said. The shooter, who had a security job, according to family, had active security officer and firearms licenses, records show.

Because of his name and heritage, there were immediate questions about Mateen's possible ties to Islamic fundamentalism — but his father said it may have been a recent incident involving two men showing each other affection that set the gunman off.

"We were in Downtown Miami, Bayside, people were playing music. And he saw two men kissing each other in front of his wife and kid and he got very angry," Mir Seddique, told NBC News on Sunday. "They were kissing each other and touching each other and he said, 'Look at that. In front of my son they are doing that.' And then we were in the men's bathroom and men were kissing each other."

"We are saying we are apologizing for the whole incident," Seddique said. "We weren't aware of any action he is taking. We are in shock like the whole country."

Seddique added, "This had nothing to do with religion."

Driving the point home that religion was a consideration in the mind of investigators, at a 10:30 a.m. news conference officials brought members of the Muslim community to speak.

Police did not explicitly say Mateen was Muslim, but Islamic groups put out statements against the carnage.

"We condemn this monstrous attack and offer our heartfelt condolences to the families and loved ones of all those killed or injured. The Muslim community joins our fellow Americans in repudiating anyone or any group that would claim to justify or excuse such an appalling act of violence," the Council on American-Islamic Relations Orlando Regional Coordinator Rasha Mubarak said in a statement

Seddique said Mateen was a husband and father to a 3-year-old son. The family's home in Port St. Lucie is less than two hours south of Orlando.

He worked in security and had attended Indian River State College, where he got an associate's degree in criminal justice, his father added.

Rep. Alan Grayson, D-Fla., whose district includes the area of the massacre, suggested to reporters that "more likely than not" the shooting spree at the nightclub was ideologically motivated.

"Let me put it this way," he said, "the nationality of family members is indicative."

The family's background was not immediately clear, but Grayson said Mateen was a U.S. citizen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Gritzblitz 2.0 said:

Which begs the question, who is the real enemy and how do we fight them? This guy was a naturally born American citizen. He didn't immigrate here. Much like the other mass shooters, he's a guy with a head full of ****** ideas who did a horrible thing. 

I suppose we could get rid of ISIS, but isn't invading the middle east what caused all of this to start with? Or maybe we can give what's left of our civil liberties over to the government. Though the NSA combing through our emails and phone calls didn't seem to stop this guy. 

I'm coming to the conclusion that if we are going to live in a free society, particularly one that likes to maintain empires in the middle east, this may just be the cost of doing business. 

Limiting our involvement in the middle east to stopping atrocities would go a long way.  I don't mind going to war to stop ISIS.  I have a huge problem trying to overthrow stable governments to "spread freedom."  ISIS is able to flourish because we went over and destabilized and/or overthrew the governments of Iraq, Egypt and Libya, and we've been trying to do it in Syria (where ISIS is doing some horribly monstrous things even as we speak).

But hey, there's oil over there, so we'll do what we want to do and keep paying the price.  I get the feeling the powers that be wouldn't mind us becoming less free.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mdrake34 said:

I figured the ****goonery into which this thread would surely devolve would have begun with blanket statements about Islam being a violent religion, so I'm surprised to see it begins with potential victim blaming.

How is pointing out what would have unquestionably been a better course of action "blaming the victims"? They obviously never considered this happening to them, nor have the vast majority of us, but we should. These attacks are going to continue, and this type violence could find any one of us just as it found these poor people last night. It's not blaming them, it's saying, consider what you'll do if it happens to you, learn from the way in which they handled such a circumstance and try to react differently, instead of playing their misguided defender, they need no defense, they are completely innocent of any blame but were victimized by this ******,anyway. Take the advice as it seemed it was obviously meant. Plan, at least in the abstract. Have a basic strategy in place ahead of time, If something similar happens to one of us, remember how victims typically have reacted in past examples, and hopefully react much differently.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mdrake34 said:

Wondering aloud whether two unarmed men could have prevented the loss of life by bum rushing a man armed with an AR-15 before the bodies are cold just seems . . . I don't know. 

You're being obtuse in order to continuing arguing a point that made no sense. He said 6 or 7 men bum rush the guy in very close quarters might have ended this much differently, this is not even up for debate, it might have. That's not blaming them, like Spongedad said earlier, anyone's first instinct is to drop and cover, but as we have learned time after time, that is not the best strategy to live through this type situation, I don't know that I would step up to be one of those guys, none of us can know if we have not lived through it, but I hope I can be. I know I plan to be. Hopefully none of us will ever find out, but it's still worth considering before we find ourselves in such a circumstance.

In any event, he was not blaming victims, he was advising others to plan ahead, and again that is very good advice.

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Limiting our involvement in the middle east to stopping atrocities would go a long way.  I don't mind going to war to stop ISIS.  I have a huge problem trying to overthrow stable governments to "spread freedom."  ISIS is able to flourish because we went over and destabilized and/or overthrew the governments of Iraq, Egypt and Libya, and we've been trying to do it in Syria (where ISIS is doing some horribly monstrous things even as we speak).

But hey, there's oil over there, so we'll do what we want to do and keep paying the price.  I get the feeling the powers that be wouldn't mind us becoming less free.

 

The problem with going to war to stop ISIS is that ISIS is an idea. You cannot kill an idea. The killer was not some elite ISIS soldier. He was just some random guy that got radicalized and sympathized with ISIS.  Our current strategy is slow, but muslim nations need to be leading the fight. Having a western country fight directly just plays into their hands.

ISIS was in Syria before we got involved. ISIS came into power because of how we left Iraq and Libya. In both cases there were no plans on how to rebuild these countries and we just left them to fend for themselves with weak governments in place. 

How does Egypt factor in? I do not remember us getting involved in the toppling of Egypt and I know that we supported their Muslim Brotherhood President before he was disposed of. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WORilla said:

I don't want to derail the thread so I'm not going to post it. 

But if you're a trump supporter go read his tweet about this.

if you still support him. Seek help. 

I just read it and I'm not surprised. He's a self-centered Dbag like we already knew.

I'm just wondering if we'll get the equivalent from Hillary, and use this as political gain now that it's known that the guns were bought legally. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, SpongeDad said:

I just read it and I'm not surprised. He's a self-centered Dbag like we already knew.

I'm just wondering if we'll get the equivalent from Hillary, and use this as political gain now that it's known that the guns were bought legally. 

She has an ounce of decorum. 

Trump seriosuly just ******* patted himself on the back  

I can't even wrap my head around this. Trumps so bad he makes me question God. There's no way if there was a person could act like this and not be smited. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...