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iDash

Falcons #3 and #8 on top 10 list of Worst offseason moves!

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19 hours ago, insight said:

Have a 1a and 1b is what made the falcons a cut above the rest of the league. The more players who can demand brackets and draw coverage the better, we currently have 1 on offense. 

And that's all we're gonna have, because we aren't running a spread anymore.

This isn't hard.

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17 hours ago, insight said:

The offense especially Kyle's is heavily reliant on the #1 receiver.  If Julio goes down we don't have a Terrell Owens type player waiting in the wings. For the money allocated for Sanu I would have liked to see us acquire someone with that type of upside. 

Then your expectations are completely unrealistic.

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15 hours ago, insight said:

I'm pointing out one of the rarities that made the Atlanta offense one of the best in the NFL. For many years Roddy was the only real threat which is why we traded the farm for Julio in the 1st place. 

But just for the record OBJ stepped in for Victor Cruz,  Yes the WCO offense typically targets the tight end after the #1 but we had a top 10 offense prior to Shanny. Why reinvent the wheel Dirk didn't switch everything up immediately.  Kyle has never had long term success anywhere which would warrant wholesale changes. 

Let me ask you a question -- watching our offense last season, which priority to you think should be addressed more seriously -- WR2 or center?

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15 hours ago, insight said:

I'm pointing out one of the rarities that made the Atlanta offense one of the best in the NFL. For many years Roddy was the only real threat which is why we traded the farm for Julio in the 1st place. 

But just for the record OBJ stepped in for Victor Cruz,  Yes the WCO offense typically targets the tight end after the #1 but we had a top 10 offense prior to Shanny. Why reinvent the wheel Dirk didn't switch everything up immediately.  Kyle has never had long term success anywhere which would warrant wholesale changes. 

Because there's a new OC. The other stuff is in the past and the running game sucked with Koetter. Quinn wanted to get back to a string running game. The wco isn't just about the wr's. It's about running the ball as well. Plus roddy was getting up in age and you still have a young Julio to be featured.

 

OBJ didn't step in he TOOK the job. Cruz wasn't the man when they switched to wco. Cruz tore it up with them as a slot wr in a completely different scheme. Kyle hasn't been anywhere for a long time but he's sent 2 qb's to the pro bowl. Schaub's only pro bowl season and the first time houston made the playoffs was with Houston. He had griffin in wash and made the playoffs but griffin got hurt and wasn't the same the next year. He had sh*t in Cleveland.

 

Matt is the 1st established franchise qb he's ever had and everybody knows year 1 in the system is ruff on vets that was t born into the system. I've posted quotes from Steve Young about this. I think kyles issue so far is the caliber of his qb's. Griffin has potential but he's been hurt. 

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9 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Let me ask you a question -- watching our offense last season, which priority to you think should be addressed more seriously -- WR2 or center?

Let's not forget who created the issues on offense in the 1st place. We cut HD to bring in an injury riddled player in Hankerson and a non factor in Williams. We proceeded to cut our previous starting center Hawley 1 week before the regular season in favor of a player who NEVER played the position before.  We intentionally marginalized Roddy White by turning him into a glorified blocker while targeting hands of stone hankerson.  

My point was why are we switching up the part of the team that was already very successful when the Falcons fell short defensively.  Who ever made the decision to blow up all the things the Falcons excelled at on offense in favor of Kyle's offense judgement should be under serious question. Why is Matt Ryan running naked boots and read option passes? Why did we nearly eliminate the no huddle offense, one of our most effective weapons? 

At the end of the day fault lies on the players who are responsible for execution but come on the coach's  job is to put them in the best situations to be successful. Kyle did not do that with his my way highway attitude.  

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Just now, insight said:

Let's not forget who created the issues on offense in the 1st place. We cut HD to bring in an injury riddled player in Hankerson and a non factor in Williams. We proceeded to cut our previous starting center Hawley 1 week before the regular season in favor of a player who NEVER played the position before.  We intentionally marginalized Roddy White by turning him into a glorified blocker while targeting hands of stone hankerson.  

My point was why are we switching up the part of the team that was already very successful when the Falcons fell short defensively.  Who ever made the decision to blow up all the things the Falcons excelled at on offense in favor of Kyle's offense judgement should be under serious question. Why is Matt Ryan running naked boots and read option passes? Why did we nearly eliminate the no huddle offense, one of our most effective weapons? 

At the end of the day fault lies on the players who are responsible for execution but come on the coach's  job is to put them in the best situations to be successful. Kyle did not do that with his my way highway attitude.  

Are you going to answer the question?

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7 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Because there's a new OC. The other stuff is in the past and the running game sucked with Koetter. Quinn wanted to get back to a string running game. The wco isn't just about the wr's. It's about running the ball as well. Plus roddy was getting up in age and you still have a young Julio to be featured.

 

OBJ didn't step in he TOOK the job. Cruz wasn't the man when they switched to wco. Cruz tore it up with them as a slot wr in a completely different scheme. Kyle hasn't been anywhere for a long time but he's sent 2 qb's to the pro bowl. Schaub's only pro bowl season and the first time houston made the playoffs was with Houston. He had griffin in wash and made the playoffs but griffin got hurt and wasn't the same the next year. He had sh*t in Cleveland.

 

Matt is the 1st established franchise qb he's ever had and everybody knows year 1 in the system is ruff on vets that was t born into the system. I've posted quotes from Steve Young about this. I think kyles issue so far is the caliber of his qb's. Griffin has potential but he's been hurt. 

I can't disagree with you, I am  just more sceptical about Kyle's ability to be flexible enough to get the best out of Ryan and I don't trust him not over using Julio. 

I see history repeating itself, Atlanta ran Turner into the ground because we were overly reliant on his production by the time we amassed other weapons in the passing game Turner was on his last leg literally.  
I see similarities between how the previous regime used Turner and how  Kyle used Julio last season which doesn't bode well for long term successful. There is a common thread with the guys who have had success under Kyle.  Schaub, RGIII, Andre J. and Morris all put up great numbers but all declined or succumbed to injury very quickly under his tutelage. 

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20 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Are you going to answer the question?

I would have focused on building the defense. We already have allot of resources tied up on offense with two premium players in Matt and Julio. This is a case of poor decisions having a domino effect. You had all offseason to evaluate Person and you concluded this guy was your next starting center. The coaching staff was so convinced they cut the only experienced starting center before the regular season began. 7 months later we are doing a 180 and paying a veteran 9 million a season at the expense of DEFENSE. 

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Just now, insight said:

I would have focused on building the defense. We already have allot of resources tied up on offense with too premium players in Matt and Julio. This is a case of poor decisions having a domino effect. You had all offseason to evaluate Person and you concluded this guy was your next starting center. The coaching staff was so convinced they cut the only experienced starting center before the regular season began. 7 months later we are doing a 180 and paying a veteran 9 million a season at the expense of DEFENSE. 

I'll take that as a "no."

OBVIOUSLY to anyone with one eye and half sense the center position was the more crucial.  Yes, WR2 was a hole last season, but the center position is WAY more important.  We upgraded both, and put more resources on C, as we should have.  Mack and Sanu beats the **** out of some scrub C and WR1b.

But I understand -- I wouldn't have answered it either if I were taking the position you are.

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10 minutes ago, insight said:

I can't disagree with you, I am  just more sceptical about Kyle's ability to be flexible enough to get the best out of Ryan and I don't trust him not over using Julio. 

I see history repeating itself, Atlanta ran Turner into the ground because we were overly reliant on his production by the time we amassed other weapons in the passing game Turner was on his last leg literally.  
I see similarities between how the previous regime used Turner and how  Kyle used Julio last season which doesn't bode well for long term successful. There is a common thread with the guys who have had success under Kyle.  Schaub, RGIII, Andre J. and Morris all put up great numbers but all declined or succumbed to injury very quickly under his tutelage. 

Schaub suffered after shanny left and so did Andre. Morris declined after shanny left for Cleveland. RG3 got hurt improvising and didn't slide. I don't think he's the reason for any of their decline. Andre just got old. He's basically Roddy. At the end of the day it's about how you take care of yourself as a player. Turner ate in the offseason and most players just take time off. Jerry Rice started his offseason the day after the season was over. If players have that kind of dedication to their job especially when you're counted on heavily like he was you don't decline as easily. 

 

As as Kyle being flexible I think he can be. But I also agree with if you believe in your system stick to it. You can't bend on a system that works otherwise you're going against your principles. But he does make tweeks for Matt and Julio. This year will be much better I believe. 

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21 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

I'll take that as a "no."

OBVIOUSLY to anyone with one eye and half sense the center position was the more crucial.  Yes, WR2 was a hole last season, but the center position is WAY more important.  We upgraded both, and put more resources on C, as we should have.  Mack and Sanu beats the **** out of some scrub C and WR1b.

But I understand -- I wouldn't have answered it either if I were taking the position you are.

The coaching staff had all offseason to properly access the center position. They concluded the best PERSON for the job was a converted guard who never played the position before. If the position was so important as you suggest why would the coaching staff make such a move? Joe Hawley was never great but he was serviceable,  Roddy White was not great but he could add some value, you can't dispose of both players and then claim the sky is falling at their respective positions. 

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7 hours ago, insight said:

The coaching staff had all offseason to properly access the center position. They concluded the best PERSON for the job was a converted guard who never played the position before. If the position was so important as you suggest why would the coaching staff make such a move? Joe Hawley was never great but he was serviceable,  Roddy White was not great but he could add some value, you can't dispose of both players and then claim the sky is falling at their respective positions. 

I think the Alex Mack signing pretty much shows that they were wrong and they know it ...... 

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7 hours ago, insight said:

The coaching staff had all offseason to properly access the center position. They concluded the best PERSON for the job was a converted guard who never played the position before. If the position was so important as you suggest why would the coaching staff make such a move? Joe Hawley was never great but he was serviceable,  Roddy White was not great but he could add some value, you can't dispose of both players and then claim the sky is falling at their respective positions. 

Roddy was here last season.  If your point is that he could add some value, explain why he didn't.

Oh, I forgot, Shanahan was a big meany meany and would wet widdle Woddy pway footbaw.  

I love Roddy White, and I loved Joe Hawley.  But Roddy wasn't good last year and Hawley was injured in camp and never showed what he could do.  That's why they moved on from Hawley last season and Roddy this season.  Person didn't pan out at C.  That's why we got Mack this offseason.  We needed a no. 2 WR (not a Julio replacement, because such a thing doesn't exist).  That's why we signed Sanu.  So I'm honestly not sure what you're complaining about.  

Quinn inherited the roster last season.  It's not like we had unlimited resources to go sign a brand new o-line.  Frankly, I'm really impressed with what they've managed to do on the o-line given where we were in 2013 and 2014.

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23 hours ago, insight said:

The coaching staff had all offseason to properly access the center position. They concluded the best PERSON for the job was a converted guard who never played the position before. If the position was so important as you suggest why would the coaching staff make such a move? Joe Hawley was never great but he was serviceable,  Roddy White was not great but he could add some value, you can't dispose of both players and then claim the sky is falling at their respective positions. 

That's not true

First, they didn't have an entire offseason, Quinn got hired long after the offseason started. Puts you behind on all your evaluations.

Second, they planned on Hawley being the center, but he wasn't healthy.

Third, they had lots of injuries on the Oline-Asomoah late in camp, Holmes, Hawley

When it turned out that Hawley and Asomoah were both injured, wasn't enough time to get another center in here. 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, falconidae said:

That's not true

First, they didn't have an entire offseason, Quinn got hired long after the offseason started. Puts you behind on all your evaluations.

Second, they planned on Hawley being the center, but he wasn't healthy.

Third, they had lots of injuries on the Oline-Asomoah late in camp, Holmes, Hawley

When it turned out that Hawley and Asomoah were both injured, wasn't enough time to get another center in here. 

 

 

 

What part of the rookie camps or OTA's did the staff miss? 

Hawley was picked up and played for Tampa without issue. How could he play for Tampa if he was unable to play as you suggest. 
There was NO NEED to release Joe Hawley, NONE if they truly wanted him.  

All the injuries occurred during the 2014 season, to suggest they were blindsided with these injuries is a big reach. 


 

 

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12 minutes ago, insight said:

What part of the rookie camps or OTA's did the staff miss? 

Hawley was picked up and played for Tampa without issue. How could he play for Tampa if he was unable to play as you suggest. 
There was NO NEED to release Joe Hawley, NONE if they truly wanted him.  

All the injuries occurred during the 2014 season, to suggest they were blindsided with these injuries is a big reach. 


 

 

Still didn't have an entire offseason,  lots of work goes on before the players ever come back.

Asomoah got reinjured  late training camp, and Hawley admitted he wouldn't be healthy during the 2016 season. 

Then , during the season, when Chester got hurt about the time that Hankerson did, just didn't have the quality depth to replace him.

 

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5 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Still didn't have an entire offseason,  lots of work goes on before the players ever come back.

Asomoah got reinjured  late training camp, and Hawley admitted he wouldn't be healthy during the 2016 season. 

Then , during the season, when Chester got hurt about the time that Hankerson did, just didn't have the quality depth to replace him.

 

Go look up how many games Joe Hawley started for Tampa and think rethink your position. What he said was he wouldn't be 100%,  he was coming off a torn ACL which is normal. 

We had less injuries than the majority of teams in the NFL in 2015. Go look up how many injuries the Arizona Cardinals had and still made the playoffs, excuses for losers every team has issues. 

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Just now, insight said:

Go look up how many games Joe Hawley started for Tampa and think rethink your position. What he said was he wouldn't be 100%,  he was coming off a torn ACL which is normal. 

We had less injuries than the majority of teams in the NFL in 2015. Go look up how many injuries the Arizona Cardinals had and still made the playoffs, excuses for losers every team has issues. 

right, you don't care what other teams did unless, of course, you think it makes the Falcons look bad.

Course Arizona got destroyed in the playoff because of their injuries.

Falcons were implementing new schemes on both sides of the ball, made too many unforced errors and didn't have enough quality depth.

 

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Just now, falconidae said:

right, you don't care what other teams did unless, of course, you think it makes the Falcons look bad.

Course Arizona got destroyed in the playoff because of their injuries.

Falcons were implementing new schemes on both sides of the ball, made too many unforced errors and didn't have enough quality depth.

 

We didn't even make the playoffs with no significant injuries. You have to pay attention to what other teams are doing when your team is fishing in cancun because they aren't in the postseason. 

  Won't answer the question! You have a future in tapping dancing no question about it. 

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15 minutes ago, insight said:

Go look up how many games Joe Hawley started for Tampa and think rethink your position. What he said was he wouldn't be 100%,  he was coming off a torn ACL which is normal. 

We had less injuries than the majority of teams in the NFL in 2015. Go look up how many injuries the Arizona Cardinals had and still made the playoffs, excuses for losers every team has issues. 

Hawley had three years of experience in DK's scheme, and zero in an outside ZBS.   He had very limited on-field practice.  Just because Hawley played for Tampa in their scheme does not necessarily translate to success in our offensive scheme.

DQ also talks about competition.  It could be that Hawley lost the competition, because 1) Person had a year of experience in Seattle's ZBS, 2) Hawley had limited reps and insufficient reps in a scheme for which there is no past history (i.e. no tape) was considered too much of a risk.

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19 minutes ago, falcoatlantae said:

Hawley had three years of experience in DK's scheme, and zero in an outside ZBS.   He had very limited on-field practice.  Just because Hawley played for Tampa in their scheme does not necessarily translate to success in our offensive scheme.

DQ also talks about competition.  It could be that Hawley lost the competition, because 1) Person had a year of experience in Seattle's ZBS, 2) Hawley had limited reps and insufficient reps in a scheme for which there is no past history (i.e. no tape) was considered too much of a risk.

Bingo, The coaching staff made a well thought out decisions  based on who they felt could best run Kyle's system.  My complaint about Kyle was his reluctance to create a hybrid offense using some concepts and players of past teams to soften the transition. We missed the playoffs because the offense fell apart, the players were not fully prepared to run his system and we lacked the personnel. I wish he would have modified it (dumbed it down) instead of throwing the season down the drain. 

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On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 8:22 AM, TheFatboi said:

Because there's a new OC. The other stuff is in the past and the running game sucked with Koetter. Quinn wanted to get back to a string running game. The wco isn't just about the wr's. It's about running the ball as well. Plus roddy was getting up in age and you still have a young Julio to be featured.

 

OBJ didn't step in he TOOK the job. Cruz wasn't the man when they switched to wco. Cruz tore it up with them as a slot wr in a completely different scheme. Kyle hasn't been anywhere for a long time but he's sent 2 qb's to the pro bowl. Schaub's only pro bowl season and the first time houston made the playoffs was with Houston. He had griffin in wash and made the playoffs but griffin got hurt and wasn't the same the next year. He had sh*t in Cleveland.

 

Matt is the 1st established franchise qb he's ever had and everybody knows year 1 in the system is ruff on vets that was t born into the system. I've posted quotes from Steve Young about this. I think kyles issue so far is the caliber of his qb's. Griffin has potential but he's been hurt. 

Not to mention Griffen going to the Shanahans and offensive coaches and telling him the plays that he will NOT run anymore. Lol It's no wonder that situation didn't work out. When you have the qb going over his coaches heads to the owner and then that owner condoning that behavior?  Idiotic move by Snyder. 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/rg3-robert-griffin-iii-redskins-coaches-meeting-lecture

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36 minutes ago, insight said:

Bingo, The coaching staff made a well thought out decisions  based on who they felt could best run Kyle's system.  My complaint about Kyle was his reluctance to create a hybrid offense using some concepts and players of past teams to soften the transition. We missed the playoffs because the offense fell apart, the players were not fully prepared to run his system and we lacked the personnel. I wish he would have modified it (dumbed it down) instead of throwing the season down the drain. 

You could just distill this to "I don't like Kyle Shanahan or his offense."  Blaming him for personnel issues is pretty silly his first year here.

Now, if Schweitzer bombs here and goes on to excel in a power scheme somewhere, your point might be more valid.

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11 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

You could just distill this to "I don't like Kyle Shanahan or his offense."  Blaming him for personnel issues is pretty silly his first year here.

Now, if Schweitzer bombs here and goes on to excel in a power scheme somewhere, your point might be more valid.

You are trying to oversimplify my opinion. 

I don't like him paired with Matt Ryan and I don't think the hire was a good fit. Attempting to transform Ryan into a different type of QB in  year 8 makes little sense to me. This is not the 1st time Matt had to deal with a new offensive coordinator, 2012 provided a blueprint of how you transition to a new offense.  The 2015 transition was a huge disappointment turning a very good QB into a below average signal caller. 

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1 hour ago, insight said:

Bingo, The coaching staff made a well thought out decisions  based on who they felt could best run Kyle's system.  My complaint about Kyle was his reluctance to create a hybrid offense using some concepts and players of past teams to soften the transition. We missed the playoffs because the offense fell apart, the players were not fully prepared to run his system and we lacked the personnel. I wish he would have modified it (dumbed it down) instead of throwing the season down the drain

I don't think you can argue that KS 'threw the season down the drain' when four games were lost by 3 points or less.  One went to overtime.    The Falcons still wouldn't have made the playoffs even if they had won the two of those which were conference games, because their strength of schedule was lower than either Seattle or Green Bay.

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