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I think people overall have a lack of respect for themselves and others.  This has created, i think, much of the problem today.  People show up to job interviews in blue jeans and a guns and roses tshirt to interview for management and salaried jobs ( i saw this) and complained when they weren't hired.  Theres a lack of respect for even basic etiquette, manners, formality, settings, coworkers, authority, supervisors, teachers,  etc..  

I can't tell you how many times I've been greeted at a drive through by "what you want" 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Free Radical said:

A.S. in Programming, B.S. in Computer Science, and working on my masters. Working full time in software before I graduated with an associates. Paid my own way through college, and worked in the restaurant business before that waiting tables. Worked as an intern for six months before I was hired, and they hired me because I busted my *** off and the only time I wasn't up there was when I wasn't working my day job or handling school. Most of my work has been in .NET programming, C++ and C# mostly.

Again, I don't believe people are fundamentally different than they were 20 years ago. It's just a fact that the challenges and issues we have now are different than they were 20 years ago, and we need to adjust or it's going to hurt. Our educational system needs and overhaul, and the political climate is very hostile to the solutions we need.

I don't think they are either. I'm tired of wasting my time debating the issue. The reality is the Federal government cannot build efficient programs that scale the entire country and diverse set of circumstances people live in. The most successful programs I have seen have been state-led, not Federal. The Fed is a slow moving beast that can't adapt to the needs of 50 different economies. It needs to be smaller with more empowerment to the state level.

The Hope program has been a raging success rewarding students with scholarships regardless of social class based on their desire to learn. State programs can be tested on a smaller scale, being far less wasteful. Dems want the Fed to do everything and that's a fundamental problem. If a state feels like they need a program for a certain use-case, the state needs to fund it. 

It would take writing a book to cover all of the intricacies about how the Fed should function. Interstate and international commerce is something they should do. When they do something to drop the price of oil that makes transportation affordable for all, I can stand behind that because it's more in line with what I see as their responsibilities. When they dictate what our healthcare choices are, I see that as overreaching the power they should have. I don't agree with them manipulating markets in favor of certain sectors. I didn't raise **** when they provided subsidies or tax benefits for other power sources because it was meant to give the public more options and help drive innovation. 

But I do have a problem whenever anyone wants a new support program because they are wasteful and it is abused by the general public. People work cash jobs and get foodstamps, welfare, and ACA subsidies. It's wasteful, and it makes it far more difficult to have upward mobility.

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On 5/28/2016 at 9:25 AM, Flip Flop said:

Back in the good ole days when a college degree nearly guaranteed a career, there were a lot fewer people going to college.  The percentage of the population that has a college degree has nearly doubled since the 60's.  

 

So, we have increased the supply of college educated people and the value of the degree has decreased.  Humph.  2+2 =/= 5.  Why does this keep happening!?!

Institutions are dumbing down (common core) our education no doubt.  You can take this 8th grade exam from 1912 and gives it to college students and most of them would fail.  We are pushing too many kids into college that are not college material at least not out of high school) and pushing some dumbed down worthless degree on them if they actually matriculate at all.  Technology yes, we need kids that are educated in these fields, but we also need to carry on vocational training for the many skilled jobs that are out there that can be lucrative.  

Eighth-Grade-Exam.jpg

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5 hours ago, pzummo said:

I don't think they are either. I'm tired of wasting my time debating the issue. The reality is the Federal government cannot build efficient programs that scale the entire country and diverse set of circumstances people live in. The most successful programs I have seen have been state-led, not Federal. The Fed is a slow moving beast that can't adapt to the needs of 50 different economies. It needs to be smaller with more empowerment to the state level.

The Hope program has been a raging success rewarding students with scholarships regardless of social class based on their desire to learn. State programs can be tested on a smaller scale, being far less wasteful. Dems want the Fed to do everything and that's a fundamental problem. If a state feels like they need a program for a certain use-case, the state needs to fund it. 

It would take writing a book to cover all of the intricacies about how the Fed should function. Interstate and international commerce is something they should do. When they do something to drop the price of oil that makes transportation affordable for all, I can stand behind that because it's more in line with what I see as their responsibilities. When they dictate what our healthcare choices are, I see that as overreaching the power they should have. I don't agree with them manipulating markets in favor of certain sectors. I didn't raise **** when they provided subsidies or tax benefits for other power sources because it was meant to give the public more options and help drive innovation. 

But I do have a problem whenever anyone wants a new support program because they are wasteful and it is abused by the general public. People work cash jobs and get foodstamps, welfare, and ACA subsidies. It's wasteful, and it makes it far more difficult to have upward mobility.

Again, why not try to borrow from the several countries that have been highly successful at doing a variety of the things I've mentioned. Why can't the federal government push the states to adopt some of these measures, and help build the overall structure? Why is it that other countries can handle so many of the problems we have, and the only answers we have is essentially "we're not smart enough to figure out how to do it here."

We have countries with free college and healthcare that are kicking our ***** in a variety of indexes and rankings by thinking outside the box, challenging the standard, and being pragmatic in their approach to issues instead of passively sitting around accepting the status quo and adhering to ridiculous dogmatic notions about what we can and can't do if we set out to accomplish something. The fact that the people who are so quick to call America the best country on Earth look at so many issues we fact and shrug their shoulders and never have any solutions to problems is profound in my opinion.

Mass shootings, education, healthcare, wages, shrinking opportunities for the lower-middle class, decreasing upward mobility, etc... Why aren't there any answers for this.

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27 minutes ago, Free Radical said:

Again, why not try to borrow from the several countries that have been highly successful at doing a variety of the things I've mentioned. Why can't the federal government push the states to adopt some of these measures, and help build the overall structure? Why is it that other countries can handle so many of the problems we have, and the only answers we have is essentially "we're not smart enough to figure out how to do it here."

We have countries with free college and healthcare that are kicking our ***** in a variety of indexes and rankings by thinking outside the box, challenging the standard, and being pragmatic in their approach to issues instead of passively sitting around accepting the status quo and adhering to ridiculous dogmatic notions about what we can and can't do if we set out to accomplish something. The fact that the people who are so quick to call America the best country on Earth look at so many issues we fact and shrug their shoulders and never have any solutions to problems is profound in my opinion.

Mass shootings, education, healthcare, wages, shrinking opportunities for the lower-middle class, decreasing upward mobility, etc... Why aren't there any answers for this.

we could borrow from those countries and it would change nothing

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42 minutes ago, Free Radical said:

Again, why not try to borrow from the several countries that have been highly successful at doing a variety of the things I've mentioned. Why can't the federal government push the states to adopt some of these measures, and help build the overall structure? Why is it that other countries can handle so many of the problems we have, and the only answers we have is essentially "we're not smart enough to figure out how to do it here."

We have countries with free college and healthcare that are kicking our ***** in a variety of indexes and rankings by thinking outside the box, challenging the standard, and being pragmatic in their approach to issues instead of passively sitting around accepting the status quo and adhering to ridiculous dogmatic notions about what we can and can't do if we set out to accomplish something. The fact that the people who are so quick to call America the best country on Earth look at so many issues we fact and shrug their shoulders and never have any solutions to problems is profound in my opinion.

Mass shootings, education, healthcare, wages, shrinking opportunities for the lower-middle class, decreasing upward mobility, etc... Why aren't there any answers for this.

Because they don't have the land mass, population, and cultural diversity we have in the US. States like Iowa have no problems with mass shootings or gun homicides and they have higher rates of gun ownership than most of the country. The problems are within certain state borders. Changing at the Federal level adds burden to states that do not have the same challenges as other states. 75% of the country does not have a homicide problem. So we are going to change Federal law to accomodate the 25% that can't handle their local issues. 

None of those countries are kicking our ***** on healthcare or education. Their students want to go to our private universities, ranked the highest in the world. Our public education struggles because of Liberal concepts like no child left behind and common core. Our private institutions provide the best education anyone can find on the entire planet. Every single one of those rankings completely ignore the most important factors for both education and healthcare. The first open heart surgery was taught in theory by our universities before the procedure saved it's first child. We have developed medicine to manage such devastating illnesses like Ebola and AIDS. Diabetics live full lives thanks to our contributions with the at home administration of insulin. The medical and educational advancements of our country exceeds every other on the planet, yet these factors are ignored in rankings. 80% of all Nobel prizes in medicine come from the research funded and completed in the US. And the most beautiful aspect of our health system is we give our cures to other countries for free. 

So quit reading these slant rankings and other crap about how great things are in other countries. Without the US, they would have another black plague wiping out a third of their population while the government quarantines areas to let the diseases die off before it reaches their palaces.

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27 minutes ago, pzummo said:

Because they don't have the land mass, population, and cultural diversity we have in the US. States like Iowa have no problems with mass shootings or gun homicides and they have higher rates of gun ownership than most of the country. The problems are within certain state borders. Changing at the Federal level adds burden to states that do not have the same challenges as other states. 75% of the country does not have a homicide problem. So we are going to change Federal law to accomodate the 25% that can't handle their local issues. 

None of those countries are kicking our ***** on healthcare or education. Their students want to go to our private universities, ranked the highest in the world. Our public education struggles because of Liberal concepts like no child left behind and common core. Our private institutions provide the best education anyone can find on the entire planet. Every single one of those rankings completely ignore the most important factors for both education and healthcare. The first open heart surgery was taught in theory by our universities before the procedure saved it's first child. We have developed medicine to manage such devastating illnesses like Ebola and AIDS. Diabetics live full lives thanks to our contributions with the at home administration of insulin. The medical and educational advancements of our country exceeds every other on the planet, yet these factors are ignored in rankings. 80% of all Nobel prizes in medicine come from the research funded and completed in the US. And the most beautiful aspect of our health system is we give our cures to other countries for free. 

So quit reading these slant rankings and other crap about how great things are in other countries. Without the US, they would have another black plague wiping out a third of their population while the government quarantines areas to let the diseases die off before it reaches their palaces.

Again, more excuses. You're essentially saying we're just not smart enough. 

We're ranked 37th in healthcare by the World Health Organization. 
We spend 150% more on healthcare than the OECD average.
Medical bills are the biggest reason for bankruptcy in the U.S.
The list goes on and on for healthcare.
We're ranked in the 30s and 20s consistently in math, science, and reading scores. 
We rank 12th in four year program graduates, versus 1st in 1985. 
We've dropped to 12th in rate of college completion.
Our education costs have gone up several times over in the past few decades. 
Our high level education programs are almost entirely dominated by international students, in many cases over 80 or 90%. American students suck at higher education.

Your full of **** if you want to call no child left behind a liberal concept. It was proposed by George W. ******* Bush. The complaint about Common Core is that it's too hard. You act like the only reason our costs are so high is because of the amount going into research, when every study ever done on the costs of our educational and health care systems says it's a load of crap. We'll be off to a great start on addressing the issues when "conservatives" can catch up to the rest of the world on fundamental concepts like, oh, I don't know, reality. Then maybe, these "conservatives" can start working on coming up with ways to address issues rather than shrugging their shoulders and saying, "It's too hard." 

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We can deal with diseases that have ravaged humanity for centuries, harvest nuclear energy, send a man to a moon, create chips that can perform calculations billion of times in a second, etc., but addressing rising education and healthcare costs and our well our students are doing in reading, math, and science is just the god ****ed worst. 

But we need to build a big **** wall to keep people out or blow up a village in some country is the Middle East, holy **** do we have all sorts of ways we can do that. 

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11 minutes ago, Free Radical said:

Again, more excuses. You're essentially saying we're just not smart enough. 

We're ranked 37th in healthcare by the World Health Organization. 
We spend 150% more on healthcare than the OECD average.
Medical bills are the biggest reason for bankruptcy in the U.S.
The list goes on and on for healthcare.
We're ranked in the 30s and 20s consistently in math, science, and reading scores. 
We rank 12th in four year program graduates, versus 1st in 1985. 
We've dropped to 12th in rate of college completion.
Our education costs have gone up several times over in the past few decades. 
Our high level education programs are almost entirely dominated by international students, in many cases over 80 or 90%. American students suck at higher education.

Your full of **** if you want to call no child left behind a liberal concept. It was proposed by George W. ******* Bush. The complaint about Common Core is that it's too hard. You act like the only reason our costs are so high is because of the amount going into research, when every study ever done on the costs of our educational and health care systems says it's a load of crap. We'll be off to a great start on addressing the issues when "conservatives" can catch up to the rest of the world on fundamental concepts like, oh, I don't know, reality. Then maybe, these "conservatives" can start working on coming up with ways to address issues rather than shrugging their shoulders and saying, "It's too hard." 

I stated facts. How many breakthroughs in medicine were achieved with the healthcare system in France? Or Italy? Those are ranked 1 and 2 for their outstanding healthcare system. So let's compare contributions. Take France and Italy combined compared to the US. 

I'll give you a hint. In the past 15 years, 19 Americans compared to 3 for France and Italy combined. 

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41 minutes ago, Free Radical said:

God bless America. 

social psychology does say that it is more difficult with a larger, diverse population. there is a far greater chance of disconnect between the people and the government 

you wouldn't say the same techniques/policies that work for a small family business work for a massive national publicly traded corporation. it is a similar situation

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36 minutes ago, pzummo said:

I stated facts. How many breakthroughs in medicine were achieved with the healthcare system in France? Or Italy? Those are ranked 1 and 2 for their outstanding healthcare system. So let's compare contributions. Take France and Italy combined compared to the US. 

I'll give you a hint. In the past 15 years, 19 Americans compared to 3 for France and Italy combined. 

Great, now how about providing basic care for our citizens. 

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8 minutes ago, Flip Flop said:

As long as we have a third party pay system, the prices will be dumb.  No one is as sensible with other peoples money as they are with their own money.

So let's look at some countries that are kicking our *** in this department? What is France or Japan doing that we could emulate?

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46 minutes ago, Free Radical said:

So let's look at some countries that are kicking our *** in this department? What is France or Japan doing that we could emulate?

it is useful to look at other countries, but this is an American problem.  Firstly, we cannot just discard what we currently have.  Our system of government is hard pressed to change, so whatever we do will be added to what we already have.  That means that our current FUBAR issues would remain.  Secondly, the US Federal government does bait and switch cronyism better than anyone anywhere.  I would prefer something more focused on a non-govnermental solution for those reasons and more.  Maybe Singapore or Switzerland would be better models to glean.  

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3 hours ago, Free Radical said:

We can deal with diseases that have ravaged humanity for centuries, harvest nuclear energy, send a man to a moon, create chips that can perform calculations billion of times in a second, etc., but addressing rising education and healthcare costs and our well our students are doing in reading, math, and science is just the god ****ed worst. 

But we need to build a big **** wall to keep people out or blow up a village in some country is the Middle East, holy **** do we have all sorts of ways we can do that. 

We don't even have to look at other countries.  There are places and groups inside our own country that do well on all of those metrics.

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