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Reasons why we'll be Top 4 in 2016


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48 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

So you are speculating and trying to say that is the reason why the Falcons are better. I agree MR is not going anywhere, but other QBs are comparable and wouldn't need to be elite if the Falcons ever did offer them money and MR needed to compete with them for the job. Right now I would think if Andy Dalton were to compete with MR for the same QB job, he would win. It is just the Falcons have no one else and have bigger problems than worrying about replacing MR anytime soon. As for Adrian Clayborn. he had 7.5 sacks his rookie year and it's been downhill sense then. He doesn't have a Michael Bennett helping him, so bringing that guy up only makes your case weaker.

Your reasoning why RBs and TEs were able to catch the ball well against this team has nothing to do with preventing the deep ball. It has to do with any QB going through their progressions and being able to target them and those positions being open because the Falcons LBs were slow and a lack of a pass rush. Falcons attempted to fix that this year. So the speed is there but not the experience. QBs on bad teams were able to beat the Falcons or compete. That is not a good reason to think the Falcons will do better. It is worse, because the likeliness that last year's anomaly of the Falcons consistently facing teams with their best players, or QBs hurt is not likely to happen as often. So while it is not impossible for backups to help teams win, it is less likely to occur by comparison to their starters who out competed them for the job. You are arguing about possibility. I am talking about probability. So you are still dealing with wishful thinking.

I am glad you pointed out the whole team because as a whole team the Falcons are mediocre. You mentioned in earlier posts about some of the better players saying how talented the team is where you a trying to pretend that 5 good players makes the team talented while ignoring the rest. MR is good but not great. You have the 2 OTs who are good not great. JJ is great. I think Freeman has a chance to be great if he can stay healthy and did really well. Trufant is very good. You have Mack who may be great again. We will see. You have Beasley who has the potential and may be great one day but isn't there yet. The rest of the team is OK at best and most are below average. The new additions to the team we will see. Going 8-8 with a weak schedule is not evidence of a good team.

Lastly, "we" aren't competing in the game. You and I are spectators, so I don't know why you are vicariously living through the players. The Falcons aren't competing against themselves. They are competing against other teams. You are just giving a platitude as your reasoning. The idea of doing better each week is silly since the idea of effort translating as success doesn't necessarily follow. There is this notion, not just with the Falcons but for any team, that if you work really hard and are passionate you will out compete your competition. Well that idea doesn't include skill, athletic ability, or level of competition. So while if 2 people of the same talent level were to compete and the guy who gives the more effort will probably win, players don't face others of equal talent. They may be better or worse than the other guy, and sometimes all the effort in the world is not going to help. People have their limitations, whatever they are. For many it is about processing information, and simply being passionate is not going to make a player smarter as an example.

So by giving your platitude with "Any given Sunday" that is really for the fans. Teams don't invest time in analyzing players if they thought all of them have the same chances in succeeding in the NFL. That idea is about giving fans the impression that just because your favorite team is down on it's luck now, things can change, to give them hope and to inspire them to continue watching the product. If fans lose faith in their favorite team the NFL loses money.

What has Andy Dalton ever accomplished that makes you say such a thing?

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1 hour ago, Draftnut57 said:

I'm just a fan, I'm not paid to make this blog and no one ask me to. I did it because I feel that confident in this team this year. Do you realize that  Campbell, De'Vondre is the exact same size as Austin Hooper??? Other than Hooper weighs 16 lbs more than Campbell. Yeap! Something to think about.. This team is IMO at least 20% better talent wise than it was last year.. Also Taking into account this will be our 2nd year in the new system,  FA pickups were the best in the 44 years I've been a fan, and this draft is solid from beginning to the end.. Main thing is we got the players we needed that we didn't get in FAcy. 

Just wondering how you came up with that 20% (was 33 a couple pages back) improvment valuation? 

Edited by Bobby.Digital
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8 hours ago, Bobby.Digital said:

Just wondering how you came up with that 20% (was 33 a couple pages back) improvment valuation? 

Actually I can answer that,,, I believe our win % will be 20% higher this year over last year,, And the reason is because our starting line up is 33% better than last year ! Any more questions? So you have to look close at what I'm talking about at the time..  And that would make our wins this regular season 10 or 11 wins, I'd say higher if our schedule was not the hardest one we've had in a while. But the reason I believe this is because of all the new players that will be huge upgrades in some critical areas that will cause this season's success.

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6 hours ago, Bobby.Digital said:

I wonder how much you would hyping the Jags if you were Jacksonville fan. Lol.

 

I have no idea if I would or not ? I do not keep up with any team like I do this team, Not even the Dogs or Yellow jackets, And I watch both teams play.. I can't even tell you how I think either one will do because I don't know who's gone and who's new to these teams I'm a fan of.

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12 hours ago, Intellectually Honest said:

So you are speculating and trying to say that is the reason why the Falcons are better. I agree MR is not going anywhere, but other QBs are comparable and wouldn't need to be elite if the Falcons ever did offer them money and MR needed to compete with them for the job. Right now I would think if Andy Dalton were to compete with MR for the same QB job, he would win. It is just the Falcons have no one else and have bigger problems than worrying about replacing MR anytime soon. As for Adrian Clayborn. he had 7.5 sacks his rookie year and it's been downhill sense then. He doesn't have a Michael Bennett helping him, so bringing that guy up only makes your case weaker.

Your reasoning why RBs and TEs were able to catch the ball well against this team has nothing to do with preventing the deep ball. It has to do with any QB going through their progressions and being able to target them and those positions being open because the Falcons LBs were slow and a lack of a pass rush. Falcons attempted to fix that this year. So the speed is there but not the experience. QBs on bad teams were able to beat the Falcons or compete. That is not a good reason to think the Falcons will do better. It is worse, because the likeliness that last year's anomaly of the Falcons consistently facing teams with their best players, or QBs hurt is not likely to happen as often. So while it is not impossible for backups to help teams win, it is less likely to occur by comparison to their starters who out competed them for the job. You are arguing about possibility. I am talking about probability. So you are still dealing with wishful thinking.

I am glad you pointed out the whole team because as a whole team the Falcons are mediocre. You mentioned in earlier posts about some of the better players saying how talented the team is where you a trying to pretend that 5 good players makes the team talented while ignoring the rest. MR is good but not great. You have the 2 OTs who are good not great. JJ is great. I think Freeman has a chance to be great if he can stay healthy and did really well. Trufant is very good. You have Mack who may be great again. We will see. You have Beasley who has the potential and may be great one day but isn't there yet. The rest of the team is OK at best and most are below average. The new additions to the team we will see. Going 8-8 with a weak schedule is not evidence of a good team.

Lastly, "we" aren't competing in the game. You and I are spectators, so I don't know why you are vicariously living through the players. The Falcons aren't competing against themselves. They are competing against other teams. You are just giving a platitude as your reasoning. The idea of doing better each week is silly since the idea of effort translating as success doesn't necessarily follow. There is this notion, not just with the Falcons but for any team, that if you work really hard and are passionate you will out compete your competition. Well that idea doesn't include skill, athletic ability, or level of competition. So while if 2 people of the same talent level were to compete and the guy who gives the more effort will probably win, players don't face others of equal talent. They may be better or worse than the other guy, and sometimes all the effort in the world is not going to help. People have their limitations, whatever they are. For many it is about processing information, and simply being passionate is not going to make a player smarter as an example.

So by giving your platitude with "Any given Sunday" that is really for the fans. Teams don't invest time in analyzing players if they thought all of them have the same chances in succeeding in the NFL. That idea is about giving fans the impression that just because your favorite team is down on it's luck now, things can change, to give them hope and to inspire them to continue watching the product. If fans lose faith in their favorite team the NFL loses money.

Clayborn has Beasley now bad he had two seasons he was hurt. Nothing went downhill. He had another multi sack season in Tampa as well. I'm not speculating at all. I KNOW the Falcons are better simply from a scheme specific player mentality. 

 

And you missed the point of the lb's and te's. It has NOTHING to do with deep ball or progression. It's the DESIGN of the defense. Cover 3 is DESIGNED to protect against the deep ball and force underneath throws. The pass rush is NOT the reason qb's threw to lb's and te's. If there was no pass rush at all they would've taken a chance going deep period. It's not progression. It's teams knowing how to attack cover 3. The natural weakness of cover 3 is the seam(where te's dwell) and underneath curls/comebacks etc...That's why speed at linebacker was needed. Qb's get rid of the ball so fast that speedy lb's can stop the play for minimal yards. You just don't understand the concept of the defense. 

 

As as for the whole team I think they are better than mediocre. There are more than 5 good players on this team and last year was the 1st year and completely new systems PLUS a few smith mediocre holdovers that are now gone. Mack is an all pro pro bowl center and one of the best in the league. There's no disputing that as his play on field has already proven this. The OT's were both top10 last season and when you get scheme specific players you don't need greatness everywhere. You just need guys that do their jobs. These teams with great players at every position you're speaking of don't exist. Every good team is made up of about 5 key players and the rest fill roles. We have that 5 

Matt Ryan

Julio Jones

Devonta Freeman

Alex Mack

Jake Matthews

Desmond Trufant

Vic Beasley

 

Thats seven players that make up a nucleus of a team and everybody else has to do their part. There are potential game changing rookies on the team but since they haven't played yet we'll hold reserve and the only and I mean ONLY reason we missed the playoffs last season is because of the offensive struggles in the new system, especially after losing Hankerson. The second year in the system will be night and day from last year. This isn't speculation, this is common knowledge from former wco players. Steve Young being the biggest catelist of the nuances and growing pains of the offense. There's talent on this team no doubt in my mind and I don't need ppl to tell me. I use my eyes. It's a matter of things coming together at the right time. I saw Seattle coming 2 years before they were good when everybody said they sucked bezoar I saw the talent. It takes time to put it together. This is only year two. Anything from 08-14 in the smith era is over. Records is not an indication of talent. Philly had the dream team. Washington had every great player in Fa on their team when spurrier was the coach and still sucked. 

 

And not Andy Dalton would not take Matt's job and the only reason that's coming up is because Andy had been in one system since coming into the league. This is Matt's 3rd and it takes at LEAST 3 years to master the wco. This is year 2 and I'll bet you hes significantly better than last year with another full offseason and understanding of the system under his belt. 

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4 hours ago, Draftnut57 said:

I have no idea if I would or not ? I do not keep up with any team like I do this team, Not even the Dogs or Yellow jackets, And I watch both teams play.. I can't even tell you how I think either one will do because I don't know who's gone and who's new to these teams I'm a fan of.

Then how are you so confident we'll be a top 4 team if you don't know any moves other teams have made? 

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11 hours ago, Intellectually Honest said:

MR and Andy Dalton only have their regular season stats to go by. Just by pure QB play, they are even. I give the edge to Dalton due to him being able to scramble better while Matt Ryan is a statue..

Matt Ryan is not a statue. He's not the most mobile QB out there but he's shown time and time again that when its absolutely necessary he can indeed make plays with his feet.

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9 hours ago, Bobby.Digital said:

Then how are you so confident we'll be a top 4 team if you don't know any moves other teams have made? 

Find one team that has gotten more high Quality FAs as we had, And then had a draft as good as ours? You will not find one. I follow the NFL long enough to know this off season we have had is very very rare for any team to get as many Quality players in one off season as we have gotten. Let me say one more thing.. your just wanting to argue,, I have no clue why unless your truely not a Falcon Fan. And just trying to disrupt a Falcon Fan post. If you don't think we had the greatest FA pick ups this year, you haven't followed this team very long. And as far as the draft goes,, Ahhh?? We have had a few really good drafts and this draft may not be the best ever, But it's high on the list.. for the amount of picks we had. No , we didn't get the player I wanted with the first pick, I would love to have gotten DE Jonathan Ogbah, But sense we got a couple of players that might can become good pass rushers, I believe in TD and Quinn, and I trully believe that this draft will fill the main holes on this team that we needed. 

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9 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Matt Ryan is not a statue. He's not the most mobile QB out there but he's shown time and time again that when its absolutely necessary he can indeed make plays with his feet.

Hey I think  Intellectually Honest  is not so honest,, I think he is an undercover Bengals fan and is mad because we got Sanu... Hmmmm, Now that's the only thing that makes sense ! Yeap,, I believe I have figured him out.. 

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http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/roster/Ra'Shede-Hageman/25d0e66f-b3ef-4f71-af51-52a0bc36654e  I've got a question, Why is no one talking about Hageman,, ??? This guy is big enough to eat hay and pull a wagon,, I think they are going to turn him lose this year and see if he can reek some havoc,  Man kind,,, With all this help he has coming in this year. If he can't do anything now, He's a lose cause. I'm hoping the best for him and me as a fan.. That He will show his power to get a few sacks this year.  It sounds like Quinn is going to give him every chance to be a force and freak of nature on the DL. Come on MAN !! Getter done,, I'll end with this, If he don't get it done, We have a line waiting behind him this year who is chopping at the bits. :golfclap:

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9 hours ago, Draftnut57 said:

Find one team that has gotten more high Quality FAs as we had, And then had a draft as good as ours? You will not find one. I follow the NFL long enough to know this off season we have had is very very rare for any team to get as many Quality players in one off season as we have gotten. Let me say one more thing.. your just wanting to argue,, I have no clue why unless your truely not a Falcon Fan. And just trying to disrupt a Falcon Fan post. If you don't think we had the greatest FA pick ups this year, you haven't followed this team very long. And as far as the draft goes,, Ahhh?? We have had a few really good drafts and this draft may not be the best ever, But it's high on the list.. for the amount of picks we had. No , we didn't get the player I wanted with the first pick, I would love to have gotten DE Jonathan Ogbah, But sense we got a couple of players that might can become good pass rushers, I believe in TD and Quinn, and I trully believe that this draft will fill the main holes on this team that we needed. 

Jacksonville for sure. Oakland and Chicago you could definitely argue. That's just off the top of my head. 

As for the rest of your post. Your trying to call me out for not joining you for some extra strength Kool Aid? 

Anyways I'm done with this thread. 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Bobby.Digital said:

Jacksonville for sure. Oakland and Chicago you could definitely argue. That's just off the top of my head. 

As for the rest of your post. Your trying to call me out for not joining you for some extra strength Kool Aid? 

Anyways I'm done with this thread. 

 

 

 

 If I was going to be critical about our Draft, I'd have to say, I think we could have traded down about 10 picks and still gotten Neal,, Took the pick we got in the trade and traded back up and gotten DE Jonathan Ogbah with our 2nd pick, and still gotten the player we took earlier than they were projected. I think Ogbah will end up being the best pass rusher in this draft,,  in time. And think if we had played our cards right, we could have gotten Ogbah and the players we got.. Of course we all know that they played it exstremely safe by making sure they got the players they wanted most. Love the ones we got but IMO I think  we could have gotten Ogbah also. Even if we would have had to give a pick up from next year.. I think we are all going to see Ogbah would have been worth the pick next year. And we would have been set for years at DE, 

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On 7/4/2016 at 0:24 PM, JD dirtybird21 said:

What you just described is EVERY team in the NFL. Every team gets new players, new coaches, has to build chemistry etc. That isn't a legitimate argument to use AGAINST the Falcons. The fact they the core players on the team are still here and 1 year into the system is an advantage. As for the schedule, you assume it's going to be extremely difficult. It could also NOT be. Don't forget that the Falcons beat the best team in the NFC last year, gave them their ONLY loss. If they can do that, that means they are a competitive team. As for your question about factors in the competition:

- I said the Falcons will be a better team than last year but predicted about the same record saying 7 to 9 wins. You can be a better team but not improve record wise. If the Falcons had the same strength of schedule as last season, I think they'd win 10-12 games. But because the schedule is harder, I think they finish middle of the pack again in terms of standings. 

When I made an argument that applies to every NFL team, is wasn't an argument to say the Falcons will do bad. I had not argued that at any time and homers are assuming I am. I am simply pointing out factors why we should NOT ASSUME the Falcons will do great. Also as far as strength of schedule, yes it is possible it could be easier. That is not likely, and I am arguing for probability.

The Falcons beat Carolina without their leader rusher and Carolina is a rushing team that plays good defense. That is like the Falcons playing without Freeman. Cam already lost his 1WR so losing starting RB also really hurt them.

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47 minutes ago, Draftnut57 said:

 If I was going to be critical about our Draft, I'd have to say, I think we could have traded down about 10 picks and still gotten Neal,, Took the pick we got in the trade and traded back up and gotten DE Jonathan Ogbah with our 2nd pick, and still gotten the player we took earlier than they were projected. I think Ogbah will end up being the best pass rusher in this draft,,  in time. And think if we had played our cards right, we could have gotten Ogbah and the players we got.. Of course we all know that they played it exstremely safe by making sure they got the players they wanted most. Love the ones we got but IMO I think  we could have gotten Ogbah also. Even if we would have had to give a pick up from next year.. I think we are all going to see Ogbah would have been worth the pick next year. And we would have been set for years at DE, 

The Falcons could not have traded down 10 spots and got Neal. It was widely known that the Jets were going to pick Neal. The Falcons would have missed out on him had they traded down. Neal was in no way a reach.

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On 7/5/2016 at 10:16 AM, TheFatboi said:

Clayborn has Beasley now bad he had two seasons he was hurt. Nothing went downhill. He had another multi sack season in Tampa as well. I'm not speculating at all. I KNOW the Falcons are better simply from a scheme specific player mentality. 

 

And you missed the point of the lb's and te's. It has NOTHING to do with deep ball or progression. It's the DESIGN of the defense. Cover 3 is DESIGNED to protect against the deep ball and force underneath throws. The pass rush is NOT the reason qb's threw to lb's and te's. If there was no pass rush at all they would've taken a chance going deep period. It's not progression. It's teams knowing how to attack cover 3. The natural weakness of cover 3 is the seam(where te's dwell) and underneath curls/comebacks etc...That's why speed at linebacker was needed. Qb's get rid of the ball so fast that speedy lb's can stop the play for minimal yards. You just don't understand the concept of the defense. 

 

As as for the whole team I think they are better than mediocre. There are more than 5 good players on this team and last year was the 1st year and completely new systems PLUS a few smith mediocre holdovers that are now gone. Mack is an all pro pro bowl center and one of the best in the league. There's no disputing that as his play on field has already proven this. The OT's were both top10 last season and when you get scheme specific players you don't need greatness everywhere. You just need guys that do their jobs. These teams with great players at every position you're speaking of don't exist. Every good team is made up of about 5 key players and the rest fill roles. We have that 5 

Matt Ryan

Julio Jones

Devonta Freeman

Alex Mack

Jake Matthews

Desmond Trufant

Vic Beasley

 

Thats seven players that make up a nucleus of a team and everybody else has to do their part. There are potential game changing rookies on the team but since they haven't played yet we'll hold reserve and the only and I mean ONLY reason we missed the playoffs last season is because of the offensive struggles in the new system, especially after losing Hankerson. The second year in the system will be night and day from last year. This isn't speculation, this is common knowledge from former wco players. Steve Young being the biggest catelist of the nuances and growing pains of the offense. There's talent on this team no doubt in my mind and I don't need ppl to tell me. I use my eyes. It's a matter of things coming together at the right time. I saw Seattle coming 2 years before they were good when everybody said they sucked bezoar I saw the talent. It takes time to put it together. This is only year two. Anything from 08-14 in the smith era is over. Records is not an indication of talent. Philly had the dream team. Washington had every great player in Fa on their team when spurrier was the coach and still sucked. 

 

And not Andy Dalton would not take Matt's job and the only reason that's coming up is because Andy had been in one system since coming into the league. This is Matt's 3rd and it takes at LEAST 3 years to master the wco. This is year 2 and I'll bet you hes significantly better than last year with another full offseason and understanding of the system under his belt. 

I won't argue against that the Falcons have some very good players, but they also have many bad ones too. The tendency on the board is the point out the strengths and ignoring the weaknesses as if they don't exist and just chalking it to lack of experience. As if another year will automatically mean the player will be better. This is not true in general. Most players rarely make significant strides and if they don't do well in their first or 2nd year they TEND to eventually be replaced and become journeymen. Remember the average NFL career is 6 years.

Matt Ryan has had more experience and better WRs to throw to throughout his career. I am not going by wins. Both teams have their strengths and weaknesses, and I don't credit any player for wins or losses. Both QBs do well in the regular season and flame out in the post. I'm not claiming that Dalton would win by a large margin or anything. They would be neck and neck, with Dalton eeking out. When I made that point is was that no one would be able to even compete with Ryan unless they were elite. I think it is safe to say Ryan will never be elite, and even if he bounces back, he will be good not great. He is a 4k 26-28 TD a year guy. He is not a weakness but doesn't deserve the worship many fans give him either.

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25 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

The Falcons could not have traded down 10 spots and got Neal. It was widely known that the Jets were going to pick Neal. The Falcons would have missed out on him had they traded down. Neal was in no way a reach.

Just because another team was interested in the player doesn't mean the player was worth being selected at that point. It is possible that the Falcons or Jets were wrong on Neal. We don't know. We will see. I highly doubt he will be a bust. His character is high. At the very least I expect him to be solid.

Edited by Intellectually Honest
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1 minute ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Just because another team was interested in the player doesn't mean the player was worth being selected at that point. It is possible that the Falcons or Jets were wrong on Neal. We don't know. We will see.

The Jets weren't the only team though. Just the one that I remember hearing the most about. But if you want said player because he fits your scheme perfectly then you draft him especially when you know a team picking right after you is also eyeing him. That doesn't make him a reach as has been suggested several times since the pick was made.

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2 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

The Jets weren't the only team though. Just the one that I remember hearing the most about. But if you want said player because he fits your scheme perfectly then you draft him especially when you know a team picking right after you is also eyeing him. That doesn't make him a reach as has been suggested several times since the pick was made.

Yeah Quinn liked him. It doesn't mean the fans need to agree.

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14 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Until Quinn proves that he doesn't know what he's doing he deserves the benefit of the doubt. One year is not enough to make a determination one way or the other.

 That's the truth,, actually I was nicely surprised we did as well as we did last year under a totally different scheme . Just think what we may do this year and next.. This is a big reason why I think we improve to 2 or 3 more wins this year and make the playoffs,, I mean, it''s not like we need a totally make over now like we did last year.. With the team now knowing their roles and our FAs and Draft.. That is why this thread was born. Barring a major loss of players God forbid. I can see no less than 10 wins this season , But as I have stated, by then we will have another reg season under our belts with these added players, And IMo we will be 20 % better by the playoffs, And there you have it.. We will one of the top 4 teams IMO and In My Mind that is what I truly believe will be, will be, K sir raw sir raw !!! :golfclap:

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1 hour ago, Draftnut57 said:

 That's the truth,, actually I was nicely surprised we did as well as we did last year under a totally different scheme . Just think what we may do this year and next.. This is a big reason why I think we improve to 2 or 3 more wins this year and make the playoffs,, I mean, it''s not like we need a totally make over now like we did last year.. With the team now knowing their roles and our FAs and Draft.. That is why this thread was born. Barring a major loss of players God forbid. I can see no less than 10 wins this season , But as I have stated, by then we will have another reg season under our belts with these added players, And IMo we will be 20 % better by the playoffs, And there you have it.. We will one of the top 4 teams IMO and In My Mind that is what I truly believe will be, will be, K sir raw sir raw !!! :golfclap:

I could see the Falcons with a top 5 offense easily. The defense is pretty young yet but because they are perfect fits for the scheme the learning curve should be shorter. I'd be surprised if we made it to the NFCCG but not floored by it. The defense just has to gel fast and get in a groove late in the year imho.

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4 hours ago, Ben Day Hoe said:

I could see the Falcons with a top 5 offense easily. The defense is pretty young yet but because they are perfect fits for the scheme the learning curve should be shorter. I'd be surprised if we made it to the NFCCG but not floored by it. The defense just has to gel fast and get in a groove late in the year imho.

Exactly !  I think just the pure speed and dept we now have on D# that we will improve at least 20 % , and 20% would be 2 more wins, Thus 10 wins, puts us this year IMO in the playoffs, Add the 10 games of experience and that makes us a whole new team in the playoffs, My thought from the beginning ,, and the reason for such a bold statement that we play much better as a team in the playoffs. I just think if Ryan, Julio and Freeman stay healthy, We can do this, I'm going to stand up with this post till that happens ... or don't happen , And I'll take my humility to the end and fess up if I'm wrong. Yes, I know a lot of things can happen, but if we stay relatively healthy, I think we get the playoffs, and if we do, we'll be much better and that will take us to the top 4. 

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