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Their personal war against Obama and the healthcare system is turning to hurting people now. They basically said if we can't end it well make sure no one can afford it that actually needs it. See Cnns headlines. Yay republicans. How much longer until there is a viable 3rd party?

Edited by Worzone
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They've been pretty open about this strategy.  Remember Marco Rubio bragging about "defunding" Obamacare?  He was talking about legislation that he wrote taking away a government fund to help non-profits in the first few years in case they misestimated expenses for health care.  Having taken that away, a lot of non-profits went bankrupt.  Then Republicans went around blaming Obama for the consequences of the legislation they snuck into the bill.  

All that energy could have been towards proposing an actual improvement to the legislation or providing their own plan to provide affordable health care to everyone.  

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"you can keep your doctor". "You can keep your plan". "Your costs will go down $2500". None of that was true and none of it happened. The entire debacle is the liberal democrats undoing. Our system, although not perfect, was far, far better, cheaper and easier to negotiate. Look to the VA for an idea just how bad government run healthcare actually is. Oh, by the way, Obamacare just lost in the court system, again. It's also the biggest tax increase in American history.

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2 hours ago, Worzone said:

Their personal war against Obama and the healthcare system is turning to hurting people now. They basically said if we can't end it well make sure no one can afford it that actually needs it. See Cnns headlines. Yay republicans. How much longer until there is a viable 3rd party?

Viable 3rd party? I wish we didn't have a party system. It's a pipe dream but the labels are what jacks up the system and the best candidates are excluded because they don't lean far enough to either side of the spectrum. The answers to our issues is somewhere in the middle. 

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The Republican Party is a joke. 

This is a perfect example of their biggest flaw. Their goals arent bad, but the methods they want to take to get there are ******* lunacy. 

Just think about every major issue they have. Security. Ditching Obama care. Immigration. A safer stronger America isn't a bad thing, but registering Muslims, ******* up healthcare even more, and shipping all illegals back? ****ig crazy. 

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12 minutes ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

 

Please say your under 25 and I'll understand...

You took a discussion about republicans and your first thing to say was "heh heh but look at them democrats!" 

I don't need you to understand.

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I almost want to slap myself silly for jumping into a political thread but truth be told I do not affiliate with either party I usually vote for the lesser of two evils since never have I seen that canadate deserving of my vote but I can tell you first-hand that Obamacare is a joke in fact it's so bad it forced me out of health insurance for 2 years because the company I worked for at the time decided to cut health care and let everyone take this so-called great thing called Obamacare but unfortunately at my salary it would have cost me instead of the $200 a month prior to Obamacare, basic coverage would have been about $950 with Obamacare each month so I had to go uninsured until I found a different job to offer benefits

 

I'm sorry but I don't know many people who work hard that have an extra $750 a month they can just piss away especially when we will give that same Health Care coverage and hospitalization to somebody who wasn't even born in this country for absolutely nothing

 

But hey if you do have that extra cash feel free to send it to me.

 

 

And if this looks like a wall of text I apologize I did this on my phone using talk to text

 

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18 hours ago, Worzone said:

Their personal war against Obama and the healthcare system is turning to hurting people now. They basically said if we can't end it well make sure no one can afford it that actually needs it. See Cnns headlines. Yay republicans. How much longer until there is a viable 3rd party?

The cure (Obamacare) was worse than the problem(Healthcare system).

The rate of increase was high before Obamacare and it has accelerated much more rapidly since Obamacare.  Bottom-line, it is a tax on middle-class Americans.   The great shrinking middle-class in America.  Obamacare is a disaster and the VA is a disaster - Gov't mandates in private health insurance is a disaster.

Obamacare is going to collapse on itself - Repubs gotta hold the House or Senate when it tanks.

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13 hours ago, clownorg said:

I almost want to slap myself silly for jumping into a political thread but truth be told I do not affiliate with either party I usually vote for the lesser of two evils since never have I seen that canadate deserving of my vote but I can tell you first-hand that Obamacare is a joke in fact it's so bad it forced me out of health insurance for 2 years because the company I worked for at the time decided to cut health care and let everyone take this so-called great thing called Obamacare but unfortunately at my salary it would have cost me instead of the $200 a month prior to Obamacare, basic coverage would have been about $950 with Obamacare each month so I had to go uninsured until I found a different job to offer benefits

 

I'm sorry but I don't know many people who work hard that have an extra $750 a month they can just piss away especially when we will give that same Health Care coverage and hospitalization to somebody who wasn't even born in this country for absolutely nothing

 

But hey if you do have that extra cash feel free to send it to me.

 

 

And if this looks like a wall of text I apologize I did this on my phone using talk to text

 

Me(50yr old male - no health issues) and my wife(43yrs old - no health issues) and my three kids (14, 12, 8) no health issues - pay $1,100/month in health insurance.   We rarely go to the doctor - $1,100/month!!!!

I pay it because I don't want to be without healthcare but it is very much a hardship and it pizzes me off.  Before Obamacare, we were paying about $650/mo. which was still high but manageable and it went up about 5%/yr - now it goes up 20%/yr.

People who are not subsidized (through employer or govt) have no idea how ridiculous it really has become.  My insurance is subsidized by my company and it was too expensive to put my wife/kids on my policy - so they have private policy through BCBS.

The increase in health insurance costs are unsustainable and Obamacare will end up leading to more uninsured than before the bill was enacted - not now but in the very near future.   Families cannot pay $1,500-$2,000/mo. - many don't fill it yet because they are subsidized by their employer - if my whole family was subsidized, maybe my total premium would be $700-800/mo instead of $1,100/mo.

Yeah I want Obamacare to fail.

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19 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

The cure (Obamacare) was worse than the problem(Healthcare system).

The rate of increase was high before Obamacare and it has accelerated much more rapidly since Obamacare.  Bottom-line, it is a tax on middle-class Americans.   The great shrinking middle-class in America.  Obamacare is a disaster and the VA is a disaster - Gov't mandates in private health insurance is a disaster.

Obamacare is going to collapse on itself - Repubs gotta hold the House or Senate when it tanks.

And yet all of the data suggest the opposite has happened:

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2015/11/12/388800.htm

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14 hours ago, WORilla said:

You took a discussion about republicans and your first thing to say was "heh heh but look at them democrats!" 

I don't need you to understand.

The republican party has for too long now been as bad as the democrats in the way they grow government. The mass's and I mean a majority are sick and tired of establishment republican spending, bowing to political correctness and acting one way when running, then joining in with democrats just to be liked. No sir, the republican party is not dead nor over. As Obama said about many changes in his stances, the republican party is evolving. The Tea Party, less government, America 1st ideal is back in play. We are sick and tired of giving in on Moral issues(take this stupid transgender bathroom issue) as an example. Take the flooding of our borders and a spiraling of debt as Prime examples. The progressive movement is like a virus that has to be beatin back, expunged. It's the old saying, The awakening of a Sleeping Giant. The Giant is trump, for now, and the media and the establishment punks cannot stop it. 

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24 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Me(50yr old male - no health issues) and my wife(43yrs old - no health issues) and my three kids (14, 12, 8) no health issues - pay $1,100/month in health insurance.   We rarely go to the doctor - $1,100/month!!!!

I pay it because I don't want to be without healthcare but it is very much a hardship and it pizzes me off.  Before Obamacare, we were paying about $650/mo. which was still high but manageable and it went up about 5%/yr - now it goes up 20%/yr.

People who are not subsidized (through employer or govt) have no idea how ridiculous it really has become.  My insurance is subsidized by my company and it was too expensive to put my wife/kids on my policy - so they have private policy through BCBS.

The increase in health insurance costs are unsustainable and Obamacare will end up leading to more uninsured than before the bill was enacted - not now but in the very near future.   Families cannot pay $1,500-$2,000/mo. - many don't fill it yet because they are subsidized by their employer - if my whole family was subsidized, maybe my total premium would be $700-800/mo instead of $1,100/mo.

Yeah I want Obamacare to fail.

Like wise. We went from $275 per month, $500 deductables to $875 per month, $5000 deductables, and we can't afford to use it, so we don't. It's now a humongous monthly debt and it literally is good for catastrophes. The entire medical world has been turned upside down. I have a number of doctors and dentist friends, and to a man/woman, they say it's been a disaster for their practices.

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19 hours ago, Worzone said:

Their personal war against Obama and the healthcare system is turning to hurting people now. They basically said if we can't end it well make sure no one can afford it that actually needs it. See Cnns headlines. Yay republicans. How much longer until there is a viable 3rd party?

The ACA is flawed, and it requires the government to reimburse insurance companies for costs.  The court ruled that those reimbursements must be approved by Congress.  How is this ****up the Republicans fault exactly?  

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18 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

And yet all of the data suggest the opposite has happened:

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2015/11/12/388800.htm

The data......LOL,  it has been in existence for 3 years and it has gotten worse each year - The data - the taxes started two years before Obamacare was implemented.

How it was pitched:

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"

"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan"

and the lie of the century:

"The average family of 4 will see their annual health insurance costs go down by $2,500/yr"

Looking backwards is a farce - that would be like saying Social Security and Medicare are in strong shape because it has been fine in the past.

You are not interested in data.

Oh yeah, large insurers are getting out of the Obamacare market.   Is that data in your link?

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1 hour ago, Leon Troutsky said:

And yet all of the data suggest the opposite has happened:

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2015/11/12/388800.htm

I don't give a **** what the Data says, I know what my paycheck said. I know the outcome of what this scam did to me personalty and I suffered on a bad heel for a year and a half where EVERY SINGLE STEP I TOOK HURT because I couldn't afford treatment uninsured.

So as Far as I'm concerned, I hope Obama gets penal cancer for the **** his bul**** Obamacare forced me to endure

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

The data......LOL,  it has been in existence for 3 years and it has gotten worse each year - The data - the taxes started two years before Obamacare was implemented.

How it was pitched:

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"

"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan"

and the lie of the century:

"The average family of 4 will see their annual health insurance costs go down by $2,500/yr"

Looking backwards is a farce - that would be like saying Social Security and Medicare are in strong shape because it has been fine in the past.

You are not interested in data.

Oh yeah, large insurers are getting out of the Obamacare market.   Is that data in your link?

You made a claim that the rate of increase accelerated after Obamacare.  The facts show it did not.  Ironically, you then turn around and say "you are not interested in data" while simultaneously denying what the data say, which is that your claim is false.

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45 minutes ago, clownorg said:

I don't give a **** what the Data says, I know what my paycheck said. I know the outcome of what this scam did to me personalty and I suffered on a bad heel for a year and a half where EVERY SINGLE STEP I TOOK HURT because I couldn't afford treatment uninsured.

So as Far as I'm concerned, I hope Obama gets penal cancer for the **** his bul**** Obamacare forced me to endure

Individual situations vary greatly, I acknowledge that.  I was responding to g-dawgs claim that rates across the nation "accelerated" following Obamacare.  Nationally, the exact opposite happened.  

Quick question...did you go through the exchanges for insurance?  It's also possible that your company was paying most of the premiums so only $200 came out of your pocket, but now you have to pay the full amount which was previously being funded by the company.  That sucks and I'm sympathetic to your situation.  But that's not the same as rates going up 500%.  G-dawg's claim was about national rates for insurance.  His claim is factually false even though some people unfortunately have seen their personal situation get worse.  

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2 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Individual situations vary greatly, I acknowledge that.  I was responding to g-dawgs claim that rates across the nation "accelerated" following Obamacare.  Nationally, the exact opposite happened.  

Quick question...did you go through the exchanges for insurance?  It's also possible that your company was paying most of the premiums so only $200 came out of your pocket, but now you have to pay the full amount which was previously being funded by the company.  That sucks and I'm sympathetic to your situation.  But that's not the same as rates going up 500%.  G-dawg's claim was about national rates for insurance.  His claim is factually false even though some people unfortunately have seen their personal situation get worse.  

No the Agency I was working for dropped ALL health coverage and pushed employees to seek Obama Care so the Plan that used to cost about $200 prior to them dumping an equivalent Obama plan would have cost $950/ month.

I totally got the shaft with Obama Care. I was 100% fine before it was hatched

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5 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Individual situations vary greatly, I acknowledge that.  I was responding to g-dawgs claim that rates across the nation "accelerated" following Obamacare.  Nationally, the exact opposite happened.  

Quick question...did you go through the exchanges for insurance?  It's also possible that your company was paying most of the premiums so only $200 came out of your pocket, but now you have to pay the full amount which was previously being funded by the company.  That sucks and I'm sympathetic to your situation.  But that's not the same as rates going up 500%.  G-dawg's claim was about national rates for insurance.  His claim is factually false even though some people unfortunately have seen their personal situation get worse.  

however all projections are showing a significant spike next year

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2 hours ago, Leon Troutsky said:

And yet all of the data suggest the opposite has happened:

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2015/11/12/388800.htm

From the table they reference.

Employer contributions have gone up an average of 3.59% per year from 2011 through 2016 (projected).  Employee premiums have gone up by 5.4% per year average.  The employee out of pocket due to increased deductibles has gone up by an average of 11.33% per year since 2011.  You can do the math yourself to check my numbers.  I'll make it easy for you.  Out of pocket was hit the worst between 2013 and 2014, going up over 14% that one year.  

The out of pocket is not spread as evenly as it looks in a table.  The plan deductibles skyrocketed with the ACA.  In other words, any middle class worker that had a complication was probably around $6000 more out of pocket personally for that year, while others didn't tap into their deductible at all and only suffered the 5% increase on the premiums.  

The ACA is beating down the middle class.  I had my child the first year we switched over.  If we had him one year earlier, we would've saved $5000 because our deductible went up from $1500 to $6500.  

But it's all good because it averages out across the country and the employers are only increasing by 3.59% per year.  And the middle class is carrying the bulk of the increases as usual with every Left policy.  Make sure the insurers get paid, keep the employers happy, screw the public.  And we can even publish the data because the public is too dumb to do the math on how we are screwing them, again.

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35 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

You made a claim that the rate of increase accelerated after Obamacare.  The facts show it did not.  Ironically, you then turn around and say "you are not interested in data" while simultaneously denying what the data say, which is that your claim is false.

your inability to understand a flawed system is your downfall.   The system was designed to fail.  You can make anything look good for a few years or even several - ask all of Bernie Madoff's investors.  This is what is frustrating about people like yourself.  YOU think you can find some stats somewhere that can back up whatever you believe and regurgitate it against the wall.   The system will collapse - it was designed to fail.

Obama said in speeches before he became President for those that wanted single-payer that the only way to get to Single Payer would be to phase it in - because the U.S. electorate would not stand for it in one big swoop - that is what Clinton's tried to do in the 1990's and it was rejected by the electorate.    Obamacare was never wanted by the majority of Americans either but was rammed down our throat thru reconciliation - with supermajority in Senate (60 Dems) and majority in the house, Republicans were powerless to stop it - then, Ted Kennedy died and there was one last hope to stop Obamacare - low and behold - Massachussetts - of all states, put a Republican in the Kennedy Senate seat specifically to stop Obamacare but it was still passed by arm-twisting and bribing Louisiana Senator Mary Landrieu (Louisiana Purchase) and Ben Nelson(Cornhusker kickback) - their constituents were so enraged that Nelson retired and Landrieu got thrown out.   Dems used the out of order reconciliation to pass (Bill started in Senate and House took it as is) to get it through before Scott Brown could take office.

The history of how Obamacare was passed matters because it was done against the will of the majority, it was done in secret - contrary to Obama saying it would be open process - the bill was lied about by our President who said thing about it he KNEW was not true - "keep your doctor, keep your plan, average family saves $2,500/yr" "Obamacare is not a tax"-  architect of Obamacare admitted it was written in such a way that states that did not setup an exchange would not get a subsidy - then Chief Justice Roberts joins liberal justices and INVENTS how to keep the law intact by admitting - in spite of what the Solicitor General argued (he said was not a tax) that in fact Obamacare is a TAX - and because it is a tax, that Congress can implement the law.

Now, surprise, surprise - the law is passed - most everything that was said about the "Affordable Care Act" (that name is hilarious) has been proven to be a lie that anyone w/ half a brain knew it to be a lie before it was ever passed.   Young people and middle-class healthy people are subsidizing the deadbeats and the very sick.  

Lies, dayum lies and Obamacare.

 

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