Jump to content

Stupid Transgender Bathroom laws cropping up


MAD597
 Share

Recommended Posts

So it seems conservatives have a new boogeyman since they lost the whole Gay Marriage thing. Seems these Trans gender bathroom laws are popping up alot (Conservative watchdog groups send these laws pre printed out all over the country to GOP representatives)

1. How is this a new problem? Where do people think transgender people have gone to the bathroom before? 

2. How are these laws enforceable? Are police going to check genitals before allowing bathroom entry

3. Sexual Assault/Voyeurism is already illegal, what crime are these laws trying to prevent?

4. How many instances of men or women dressing as the opposite sex to watch others in a bathroom have been prosecuted? I've never heard of it happening but please enlighten me as to this massive issue going on?

5. Is it a better option to have a transgender person that looks exactly like a woman in a mens restroom and vice versa?

6. Really WTF GOP please let's worry about real issues plaguing our country instead of picking another group of people to try and oppress.

Edited by MAD597
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 125
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

43 minutes ago, MAD597 said:

So it seems conservatives have a new boogeyman since they lost the whole Gay Marriage thing. Seems these Trans gender bathroom laws are popping up alot (Conservative watchdog groups send these laws pre printed out all over the country to GOP representatives)

1. How is this a new problem? Where do people think transgender people have gone to the bathroom before? 

2. How are these laws enforceable? Are police going to check genitals before allowing bathroom entry

3. Sexual Assault/Voyeurism is already illegal, what crime are these laws trying to prevent?

4. How many instances of men or women dressing as the opposite sex to watch others in a bathroom have been prosecuted? I've never heard of it happening but please enlighten me as to this massive issue going on?

5. Is it a better option to have a transgender person that looks exactly like a woman in a mens restroom and vice versa?

6. Really WTF GOP please let's worry about real issues plaguing our country instead of picking another group of people to try and oppress.

I take issue with the NC law because it does the opposite of what municipalities have been doing -- it dictates that local businesses and government entities must have a certain bathroom policy, only the opposite of what municipalities have been requiring.

Having said that, it's not like conservatives and the GOP came up with the idea to pass laws on the issue.  Laws such as this one are responses to municipal ordinances dictating to private businesses what their bathroom policies must be.  So this is first and foremost a left wing playground.  Conservatives have simply overreacted (IMHO) by dictating policy in the other direction.

The reality is, this has never been a problem in our entire history until someone decided we needed laws addressing it.  The question is who ought to decide, as ever.  If your position is "local businesses ought to decide for themselves and public entities ought to have policies commensurate with the government's position on the issue," I would find little to disagree with.  But I get the feeling you're fine with laws, so long as you agree with the direction they go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The silliest argument I've seen, and seen more than once, is that if the law is that you use the bathroom that corresponds with your gender identity, then men who clearly are not transgendered and intend to do harm will follow your wife and daughter into the bathroom, and they'll sue you if you come in after them, apparently because the courts will accept someone's gender dysphoria on their word alone but won't be able to distinguish between your desire to protect your family from intent to assault a transgender woman.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Serge said:

The silliest argument I've seen, and seen more than once, is that if the law is that you use the bathroom that corresponds with your gender identity, then men who clearly are not transgendered and intend to do harm will follow your wife and daughter into the bathroom, and they'll sue you if you come in after them, apparently because the courts will accept someone's gender dysphoria on their word alone but won't be able to distinguish between your desire to protect your family from intent to assault a transgender woman.

boys-have-a-penis-girls-have-a-vagina.jp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Serge said:

The silliest argument I've seen, and seen more than once, is that if the law is that you use the bathroom that corresponds with your gender identity, then men who clearly are not transgendered and intend to do harm will follow your wife and daughter into the bathroom, and they'll sue you if you come in after them, apparently because the courts will accept someone's gender dysphoria on their word alone but won't be able to distinguish between your desire to protect your family from intent to assault a transgender woman.

The entire thing is just a ridiculous fear mongering effort from the right. This is not a new issue, trans-gendered people have existed as long as humanity has existed. It just boggles my mind what issue the right will pull out of their *** next to try and distract people from real issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, MAD597 said:

The entire thing is just a ridiculous fear mongering effort from the right. This is not a new issue, trans-gendered people have existed as long as humanity has existed. It just boggles my mind what issue the right will pull out of their *** next to try and distract people from real issues.

"From the right."

But "the left" were the ones that started passing laws.  But laws are stupid since this has never been a problem before.

Or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Flip Flop said:

We are breaking new ground on the boundaries of dumb here.  

 

How is that dumb? 

The concept that people are going to pretend to be another sex to sneek into a bathroom is ridiculous, it doesn't happen and their are already laws in place against sexual assault and voyeurism.

Edited by MAD597
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, MAD597 said:

How is that dumb? 

The concept that people are going to pretend to be another sex to sneek into a bathroom is ridiculous, it doesn't happen and their are already laws in place against sexual assault and voyeurism.

The concept that people are whatever they "identify" is dumb.  Im a 6'5" Asian woman.  It is just dumb.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MAD597 said:

How is that dumb? 

The concept that people are going to pretend to be another sex to sneek into a bathroom is ridiculous, it doesn't happen and their are already laws in place against sexual assault and voyeurism.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Secret-Recording-Store-Mall-Antelope-Valley-Palmdale-Restroom-207541101.html

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On May 9, 2016 at 1:05 PM, MAD597 said:

So it seems conservatives have a new boogeyman since they lost the whole Gay Marriage thing. Seems these Trans gender bathroom laws are popping up alot (Conservative watchdog groups send these laws pre printed out all over the country to GOP representatives)

1. How is this a new problem? Where do people think transgender people have gone to the bathroom before? 

2. How are these laws enforceable? Are police going to check genitals before allowing bathroom entry

3. Sexual Assault/Voyeurism is already illegal, what crime are these laws trying to prevent?

4. How many instances of men or women dressing as the opposite sex to watch others in a bathroom have been prosecuted? I've never heard of it happening but please enlighten me as to this massive issue going on?

5. Is it a better option to have a transgender person that looks exactly like a woman in a mens restroom and vice versa?

6. Really WTF GOP please let's worry about real issues plaguing our country instead of picking another group of people to try and oppress.

First off, I am not defending the Right. I think their response is ridiculous. But I am calling you out because of your fingerpointing at the Right, essentially giving the Left a free pass, when the Left actually started this ridiculous political posturing crap we are seeing.

1. It's a new problem because the Left made it one. In the past, if a transgender looked like a woman and used a stall in a female bathroom without incident, nobody cared or noticed. That wasn't good enough. The left wanted to pass laws based purely on how a person views themself, which is an attempt to govern thoughts. That is the only reason this became an issue.

2. I would suspect the laws would have no effect unless someone exposes themself. If a female complains about a man exposing his ***** in the female restroom, they will be prosecuted because they are not allowed in there. In the opposite extreme from the Left proposals, it would be impossible to prosecute a man exposing himself in a female restroom because he is protected by law to be in there as long as he claims he identifies as a woman in his defense.

3. These laws apply more to indecent exposure. If they pass the Left law where you are legally allowed to use women facilities such as community bathrooms and showers, you will never get an indecent exposure charge to stick when they occur in those areas. Unless, of course, the "perp" is too poor to hire a decent defense and accepts the charges. I'm really not sure why the Left even made this an issue, as Muslim establishments would protest anti-Muslim laws that could expose their females to male genitalia or have their female genitals exposed to biological men.

4. So why did the Left try to pass laws permitting something that was not an issue? 

5. It would be best if this was never a topic of discussion. There are a million more important things for our government to discuss. I don't understand why anyone wanted to make this an issue. Oh yeah, because politics. 

6. The Left were pushing laws that oppress the belief of hundreds of millions of Christians and Muslims in this country. And you are angry at the GOP for "making" this an issue? Seriously, fact check.

The Left created this drama so they could posture like it's the Right oppressing people. Any objective person should be able to look at the facts and intelligently say both the Left and the Right are idiots, both attempting to pass laws that oppress the thoughts of a segment of the population, and are more interested in political posturing than solving real problems. Passing a law that protects a man entering a women's bathroom because of his thoughts is just as ridiculous as the GOP proposals they are responding with. They are all a bunch of assclowns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, pzummo said:

First off, I am not defending the Right. I think their response is ridiculous. But I am calling you out because of your fingerpointing at the Right, essentially giving the Left a free pass, when the Left actually started this ridiculous political posturing crap we are seeing.

1. It's a new problem because the Left made it one. In the past, if a transgender looked like a woman and used a stall in a female bathroom without incident, nobody cared or noticed. That wasn't good enough. The left wanted to pass laws based purely on how a person views themself, which is an attempt to govern thoughts. That is the only reason this became an issue.

2. I would suspect the laws would have no effect unless someone exposes themself. If a female complains about a man exposing his ***** in the female restroom, they will be prosecuted because they are not allowed in there. In the opposite extreme from the Left proposals, it would be impossible to prosecute a man exposing himself in a female restroom because he is protected by law to be in there as long as he claims he identifies as a woman in his defense.

3. These laws apply more to indecent exposure. If they pass the Left law where you are legally allowed to use women facilities such as community bathrooms and showers, you will never get an indecent exposure charge to stick when they occur in those areas. Unless, of course, the "perp" is too poor to hire a decent defense and accepts the charges. I'm really not sure why the Left even made this an issue, as Muslim establishments would protest anti-Muslim laws that could expose their females to male genitalia or have their female genitals exposed to biological men.

4. So why did the Left try to pass laws permitting something that was not an issue? 

5. It would be best if this was never a topic of discussion. There are a million more important things for our government to discuss. I don't understand why anyone wanted to make this an issue. Oh yeah, because politics. 

6. The Left were pushing laws that oppress the belief of hundreds of millions of Christians and Muslims in this country. And you are angry at the GOP for "making" this an issue? Seriously, fact check.

The Left created this drama so they could posture like it's the Right oppressing people. Any objective person should be able to look at the facts and intelligently say both the Left and the Right are idiots, both attempting to pass laws that oppress the thoughts of a segment of the population, and are more interested in political posturing than solving real problems. Passing a law that protects a man entering a women's bathroom because of his thoughts is just as ridiculous as the GOP proposals they are responding with. They are all a bunch of assclowns.

Okay, could you provide a list of the "laws" that were passed that permitted someone to go to the bathroom "based purely on how a person views themself" and also list the "laws" that were passed that "oppress the belief of hundreds of millions of Christians Muslims in this country"?  Thanks.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Okay, could you provide a list of the "laws" that were passed that permitted someone to go to the bathroom "based purely on how a person views themself" and also list the "laws" that were passed that "oppress the belief of hundreds of millions of Christians Muslims in this country"?  Thanks.

 

Here is a women's activist site that has tracked and responded to "gender identity" laws with corresponding states that have put that verbiage in law. I am not going to look up each state's specific laws, but these women have very valid concerns. I think you should try to objectively consider them before dismissing any counter-argument as bigotry or discrimination.

https://genderidentitywatch.com/gender-identity-legislation-and-the-erosion-of-sex-based-legal-protections-for-females/

To address your second question, why are people complaining about GOP proposed laws but we can only talk about passed laws for the Left? The majority of GOP proposed laws have not passed. They were struck down in both Georgia and North Carolina. Regardless, there have been numerous proposals to add "gender identity" as a protected class, many states have added gender identity to their laws, and protecting their treatment based on their self-identified sex. To give you one specific example...

Last year, Hawaii passed a law that allows people to change their sex on their birth certificate based on their gender identity. That was not their first gender identity law, but it was their most recent. They do not have to undergo sex change procedures, and it is purely based on how they perceive themselves mentally. They have all of the same protections as a female in society because their birth certificate says they are female. If a male identifies as female and has his birth certificate changed to be a female legally, what legal recourse does a Muslim or Christian female have if this woman is doing the helicopter with "her" ***** in the female community shower at their same university?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, pzummo said:

Here is a women's activist site that has tracked and responded to "gender identity" laws with corresponding states that have put that verbiage in law. I am not going to look up each state's specific laws, but these women have very valid concerns. I think you should try to objectively consider them before dismissing any counter-argument as bigotry or discrimination.

https://genderidentitywatch.com/gender-identity-legislation-and-the-erosion-of-sex-based-legal-protections-for-females/

To address your second question, why are people complaining about GOP proposed laws but we can only talk about passed laws for the Left? The majority of GOP proposed laws have not passed. They were struck down in both Georgia and North Carolina. Regardless, there have been numerous proposals to add "gender identity" as a protected class, many states have added gender identity to their laws, and protecting their treatment based on their self-identified sex. To give you one specific example...

Last year, Hawaii passed a law that allows people to change their sex on their birth certificate based on their gender identity. That was not their first gender identity law, but it was their most recent. They do not have to undergo sex change procedures, and it is purely based on how they perceive themselves mentally. They have all of the same protections as a female in society because their birth certificate says they are female. If a male identifies as female and has his birth certificate changed to be a female legally, what legal recourse does a Muslim or Christian female have if this woman is doing the helicopter with "her" ***** in the female community shower at their same university?

Okay, I'm confused.  The website seems to say that gender identity protections are a bad thing.  In other words, preventing discrimination against transgendered people is not good, in their view. Though I might be mistaken about it.

Regarding Hawaii, I'm sorry but according to the state website it's not just based on how they perceive themselves:

http://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/new-birth-certificate-for-sex-designation-change/

To request a new birth certificate with a sex designation change:

  1. The requestor or “birth registrant” must be born in the State of Hawaii and have a birth certificate filed with the Hawaii Department of Health.
  1. The requestor must provide a notarized affidavit from a United States licensed physician attesting that:
    • The physician has a bona fide physician-patient relationship with the birth registrant;
    • The physician has treated and evaluated the birth registrant and has reviewed and evaluated the birth registrant’s medical history;
    • The birth registrant has had appropriate clinical treatment for gender transition to the new gender and has completed the transition to the new gender; and
    • The physician has seen a current certified copy of the registrant’s birth certificate and the new gender does not align with the sex designation of the birth registrant’s birth certificate.*

*Please provide a current certified copy of your birth certificate to physician.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Okay, I'm confused.  The website seems to say that gender identity protections are a bad thing.  In other words, preventing discrimination against transgendered people is not good, in their view. Though I might be mistaken about it.

Regarding Hawaii, I'm sorry but according to the state website it's not just based on how they perceive themselves:

http://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/new-birth-certificate-for-sex-designation-change/

To request a new birth certificate with a sex designation change:

  1. The requestor or “birth registrant” must be born in the State of Hawaii and have a birth certificate filed with the Hawaii Department of Health.
  1. The requestor must provide a notarized affidavit from a United States licensed physician attesting that:
    • The physician has a bona fide physician-patient relationship with the birth registrant;
    • The physician has treated and evaluated the birth registrant and has reviewed and evaluated the birth registrant’s medical history;
    • The birth registrant has had appropriate clinical treatment for gender transition to the new gender and has completed the transition to the new gender; and
    • The physician has seen a current certified copy of the registrant’s birth certificate and the new gender does not align with the sex designation of the birth registrant’s birth certificate.*

*Please provide a current certified copy of your birth certificate to physician.

I should have been more specific, but my posts are kind of long. The Hawaii law does not require surgery. The gender transition is qualified by completing hormone treatment. It is not a post-op qualification requirement. If a transgender has completed hormone treatment, they can change their birth certificate. The original law was transgender, but they expanded it to include gender identity, which is not physically defined.

The concern about "gender identity" is the way it is defined. It is a mental and emotional claim, not something that can be proven. I did not read that as them being against preventing discrimination against transgender people. I read that as them not being classified as women. I do think all innocent people, especially victims, should be protected by law against discrimination. That is much different than classifying or protecting a transgender person equivalent to their self identified sex irrespective of their physical nature.

For example, a male that identifies as female should not be treated inhumanely and should be protected against discriminatory behavior. Without question, nothing to debate there. That protection should not go beyond the point where it impedes on the rights of women and their respective belief. A male that identifies as female should not be able to compete in the WNBA or LPGA based on gender-identity. A Muslim woman should not have to share a community shower with someone that has male genitals. The hormone therapy will effect physiological features but they do not completely reverse the extra growth hormone and testosterone they grew up with before their growth plates closed. Should a transgender woman that was born a man and still has male genitalia really be legally defined as a woman? Can you not see how that legally protects behavior that is in direct conflict to people's religious beliefs?

If you look like a female and want to use the female bathroom but still have a *****, don't let anyone see your genitals and it's not a problem with the old law. You don't pass a law that effectively removes recourse for a victim, and indecent exposure does victimize people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...