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Rookie pass rushers usually make 0 impact


lju713
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JJ Watt 2011=5.5 sacks

Justin Houston 2011=5.5 

Robert Quinn 2011=5

Cam Jordan 2011=1.0

Vic Beasley 2015=4.5

With the exception of Vonn Miller,Javon Kearse,Aaron Donald,and Julis Peppers rookie pass rusher generally dont make an impact, especially 1st rounders. They have a higher bust factor and teams will reach for 1 due to it being a need and miss out on another player. We did this in 2007, by passing on Revis and Pat Willis for JA98. The way we attacked FA it setup for us to draft for scheme and not need. Outside of Mario Williams, none of the free agent DE hadn't proved enough to me. Olivier Vernon got over payed and over valued. I think yr 2 is gonna be Beasley's year. Every pass rusher i noted at the top doubled their rookie sack total in year 2. It was no DE in round 1 who was better at the present time then our top 3 DE's(Beasley,Shelby,Clayborn).Mentally, or in preparation for a game,and more than likely physically. Don't get me wrong i would've like a DE in the 4th(Matt Judon) but im fine with the picks. LB's and Safeties are tone setters on D, and todays NFL is played in between the hashes, home of SS and LB. The intermediate pass game is king in the NFL and Quinn is buliding to stop it.

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That's the one thing I don't understand about the complaints. Why do people think a rookie DE is going to solve our pass rush? Last year we got a pass rusher almost 10 spots higher in the draft and we still only had 19 sacks. It's clearly more than just one position but some still think shaq lawson or noah spence was going to come in here and give us 12 sacks and take us to the playoffs. 

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4 minutes ago, wordtobigbird said:

That's the one thing I don't understand about the complaints. Why do people think a rookie DE is going to solve our pass rush? Last year we got a pass rusher almost 10 spots higher in the draft and we still only had 19 sacks. It's clearly more than just one position but some still think shaq lawson or noah spence was going to come in here and give us 12 sacks and take us to the playoffs. 

And that prospect was better than any in this draft. 

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4 minutes ago, wordtobigbird said:

That's the one thing I don't understand about the complaints. Why do people think a rookie DE is going to solve our pass rush? Last year we got a pass rusher almost 10 spots higher in the draft and we still only had 19 sacks. It's clearly more than just one position but some still think shaq lawson or noah spence was going to come in here and give us 12 sacks and take us to the playoffs. 

G-dawg is highly criticizing TD in this draft because we didn't get Lawson, yet Gdawg was screaming at TD for not trading up for Clowney at that time. 

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4 minutes ago, Joremarid said:

Rookie pass rushers become vet pass rushers. Th falcons need to be better pressuring the passer. Denver had a great pass rush and spent their 2015 first rounder on a pass rusher.

Clowney was highest rated in 2013, how'd that work out?

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If you can force teams to 3rd and long by STOPPING the RUN 1st, your chances of a sack or that team not converting are higher. I will take my D getting off the field by tackling better and havin better pursuit to the ball then sacks anyday...sorry thats just me tho

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37 minutes ago, lju713 said:

JJ Watt 2011=5.5 sacks

Justin Houston 2011=5.5 

Robert Quinn 2011=5

Cam Jordan 2011=1.0

Vic Beasley 2015=4.5

With the exception of Vonn Miller,Javon Kearse,Aaron Donald,and Julis Peppers rookie pass rusher generally dont make an impact, especially 1st rounders. They have a higher bust factor and teams will reach for 1 due to it being a need and miss out on another player. We did this in 2007, by passing on Revis and Pat Willis for JA98. The way we attacked FA it setup for us to draft for scheme and not need. Outside of Mario Williams, none of the free agent DE hadn't proved enough to me. Olivier Vernon got over payed and over valued. I think yr 2 is gonna be Beasley's year. Every pass rusher i noted at the top doubled their rookie sack total in year 2. It was no DE in round 1 who was better at the present time then our top 3 DE's(Beasley,Shelby,Clayborn).Mentally, or in preparation for a game,and more than likely physically. Don't get me wrong i would've like a DE in the 4th(Matt Judon) but im fine with the picks. LB's and Safeties are tone setters on D, and todays NFL is played in between the hashes, home of SS and LB. The intermediate pass game is king in the NFL and Quinn is buliding to stop it.

Sooner or later you must deal with and plan for the future

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27 minutes ago, Joremarid said:

Rookie pass rushers become vet pass rushers. Th falcons need to be better pressuring the passer. Denver had a great pass rush and spent their 2015 first rounder on a pass rusher.

Because they lost half their defense to fa lol just sayin

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34 minutes ago, lju713 said:

If you can force teams to 3rd and long by STOPPING the RUN 1st, your chances of a sack or that team not converting are higher. I will take my D getting off the field by tackling better and havin better pursuit to the ball then sacks anyday...sorry thats just me tho

That's basically the approach Mike Smith took.

I understand what we did but if you don't draft pass rushers and you don't spend $$ in FA then you end up with a team that can't rush the passer.

I know this because I've watched the Falcons take this approach for the last 8 years with last year being a rare exception.

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44 minutes ago, Joremarid said:

Rookie pass rushers become vet pass rushers. Th falcons need to be better pressuring the passer. Denver had a great pass rush and spent their 2015 first rounder on a pass rusher.

I agree we need to pressure the passer more.  It's not like we were 7th in the league at QB pressure or anything. :rolleyes:

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We've been adding players that can get to the passer consistently since Quinn got here. For instance, Brooks Reed in 2014 had 3 sacks and 10 QB hits and 6 sacks before that, but had a wicked injury to his groin that slowed him all last season. He'll be fully healed this year. We added 1st round draft pick Adrian Clayborn last year who has already proven he can get 7+ sacks in a season at DE and are moving him outside for good this year. 

Our defensive players picked this year are all extremely fast and can get the the QB. We signed FAs this year who either collapse the pocket with brute strength creating lanes for the speedsters to get the sack, or players who are capable of getting 4-6 sacks. We added Hageman year before last and Beasley and Jarrett last year who are developing.

The notion that we've "ignored" the pass rush for 2 years simply because we didn't draft a DE this year is utter fantasy. Quinns scheme is most successful when you get a bunch of players getting 3-4 sacks, not one player getting 20 sacks.

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6 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

That's basically the approach Mike Smith took.

I understand what we did but if you don't draft pass rushers and you don't spend $$ in FA then you end up with a team that can't rush the passer.

I know this because I've watched the Falcons take this approach for the last 8 years with last year being a rare exception.

^ This. We are in trouble now. In a couple years Beasly might be really good , and we may luck out and ink someone decent for the other side out of free agency. If we still have a good penetrating tackle, we would finally have a good line with no depth. To end up with a line that can rotate and apply pressure would require a couple years of all the right moves (like Dan Reeves did) . I hope we get there

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I am giving them this year to see how it works out. In my book this staff is on a short leash. I sure hope this plan works. I for one have my doubts. I will say I did not see much that could have been done with the limitations of what was in the draft. You still have to try and use what you can get. It sure feels like the pass rush was just pushed back in favor of building up the second level. This after we were told by this same staff the lines needed to be fixed. 

So what did the Falcons do to fix the D-Line? All they did was move players into different positions. If that was going to fix then D-Line, why not do that during last year?

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33 minutes ago, wordtobigbird said:

Listening to Dan Quinn on 92.9 the game right now..

He's counting BIG on Jarrett, Vic and Hagemen taking the next step. 

So am I. That's a lot of talent we added just the last 2 years to the DL all capable of collapsing the pocket or getting in backfield and disrupting things.

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Beasley was fine. I think in the middle of the season he looked gassed just like most other rookies. Those guys typically play into January and immediately enter the pre-draft process after they declare. That carries them through to the beginning of May. rookie Minicamp/OTAs happen throughout the spring. Training camp carries them right into the season and by the end of their rookie year they've been playing football for like 18+ straight months while trying to adjust to an entirely new experience and responsibilities. 

Vic is going to light it up this year. 

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46 minutes ago, A Pimp Named Slickback™ said:

Well, I think a lot of the guys that wanted to draft another rusher just wanted more help for Vic as PR is pretty thin other than him.

Quinn worked out Lawson, Ogbah and Bullard before the draft and passed on all three.

He felt that the rushers in this class didn't fit his scheme. I know fans wanted another rusher but adding a rookie rusher who the coach feels doesn't fit scheme won't necessarily help the pass rush.

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