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It's the Pass Rush, stupid...


g-dawg
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3 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

The reason the Falcons only have 1 playoff win is because they didn't take care of the ball. Turnovers in every game and 1 game Ill prepared against the Giants. 

so you think the Falcons lack of playoff success doesn't have anything to do with how the roster was built?

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7 hours ago, g-dawg said:

2014 NFL Draft  GOOD - Jake Matthews (franchise LT), Devonta Freeman (pro-bowl RB) - Rashede' Hageman (????),  Southward (BUST/CUT), Rico Allen (below avg. starter)

2014 NFL Free Agency HORRIBLE - Soliai (very average production - CUT),  Tyson Jackson (below average production),  Jonathan Asamoah (Cut)

2015 NFL Draft PROMISING - Vic Beasley (underachieved first year but shows promise), Jalen Collins (Bust so far, hoping for better),  Tevin Coleman (needs to stay healthy and clean up fumbles),  Justin Hardy (hopefully he has playbook down this year and makes impact),   Grady Jarrett (has a chance to be a player.)

2015 NFL Free Agency POOR - Justin Durant (already cut), Brooks Reed (lost season came back/non-factor) Adrian Clayborn (minimal impact)

2016 NFL Draft (?????) - Keanu Neal, Deion Jones, Austin Hooper, Devondre Campbell, Wes Schweitzer

2016 Free Agency (?????) - Alex Mack, Mohammad Sanu, Derrick Shelby, Adrian Clayborn

 

The drafting has gotten slightly better the last few years although Hageman really needs to step up this year - without that, I'm calling him a premium pick that busted.  Step it up Rashede.

The Falcons biggest problem as I see it is the same "wash, rinse, repeat" pattern every year of wasting prime cap dollars for players thought to at least being "mid-level" players and some thought to be "mid-upper-level" players who come in and are basically just below average starters that are mostly starting because of what we are paying them.   The last time Dimitroff had a good offseason in free agency was 2008 - that was 8 years ago - and he and his Pro Personnel staff have done a horrible job since then.  We really need Dimitroff/Pioli/Quinn to break this trend of no impact NFL free agent signings this year - obviously we have hope for Alex Mack but if Sanu and Shelby flop, my grade will not be good.

Would Falcons have been better off going all-in for Olivier Vernon to help the passrush? - or to go 2/3 in for Bruce Irvin or Mario Williams and re-allocated the Alex Mack monies to a passrush?   Falcons could have taken Ryan Kelly as a upper-end rookie center - as good as Mack in year#1?  NO.....good enough? MAYBE....maybe you maneuver cap dollars to sign Vernon and Mack or Irvin/Mack or Mario/Mack - 

Our passrush is most likely going to be brutally bad this year as well - outside of Beasley (who is moving to LB) we have Clayborn and Shelby - if you think that is gonna get it done, then you just are not living in the real world.

I am 100% totally fine w/ not taking a Defensive End in the draft if Quinn&Co did not think Lawson, Dodd, Spence, Ogbah, etc. were going to be impactful passrushers at NFL level - that is fine - but you shoulda done something about it in free agency - and we - once again, did nothing to improve our passrush.

This is who the Falcons faced in 2015 as QBs:

Sam Bradford

Eli Manning

Brandon Weeden (back-up)

Ryan Mallett (back-up)

Kirk Cousins

Drew Brees

Zach Mettenberger(back-up)

Jameis Winston (rookie)

Blaine Gabbert (back-up)

Matt Hassellback (back-up)

Teddy Bridgewater

Jameis Winston (rookie)

Cam Newton

Blake Bortles

Cam Newton

Drew Brees

 

This is who the Falcons face in 2016 as QBs:

Jameis Winston

Derek Carr

Drew Brees

Cam Newton

Mark Sanchez

Russell Wilson

Phillip Rivers

Aaron Rodgers

Jameis Winston

Sam Bradford

Carson Palmer

Alex Smith

Jared Goff (rookie)

Blaine Gabbert

Cam Newton

Drew Brees

 

 

Had we not pissed away so much money in 2014 on terrible players in free agency and got nothing for our cheaper version of free agency in 2015 - we would be further along.

All I know is I see a lot of "no passrush" coming our way in 2016 season as well - and that - if correct, is regretful.

 

I'm with ya Gdawg! I was not a fan and still am not a fan of picking Neal at #17 overall. I really really was hoping for a trade down to get some more quality picks; but it takes two to tango. But when I heard the pick announced I looked over at my buddy who was watching the draft with me and said WTF!! My favorite edge rusher in this class was sitting on the board at our pick (Lawson) as well a couple other quality pass rushers. We could have easily picked Sua Cravens at #50 overall and had every bit as good of a player if they wanted a SS that badly! So I guess we had better hope that Beasley, Hageman, Jarrett and crew step it up this year and Shelby makes an impact as a free agent..

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14 minutes ago, YoungHeezy said:

Rex Ryan took the number 4 overall defense to 19th with the same players.

That happens in game of football. If Ryan doesnt fix it he will eventually be fired but they actually had a compontent offense. Rex addressed what he felt was wrong with defense and Im sure his defense will reapond 

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4 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

so you think the Falcons lack of playoff success doesn't have anything to do with how the roster was built?

I think if they were better at protecting the ball we'd have a SB. We had MULTIPLE turnovers in every playoff game except the Giants game. The only playoff game we won the turnover battle was the Seahawks. The Giants game we were so Ill prepared we should've just turned the ball over. Well I guess we did turn the ball over twice against the Giants. 2 failed 4th down attempts is a turnover. We most definitely could've won more games of the offense didn't turn the ball over. We would've won the Arizona game without those turnovers. The GB game was still close before the pick 6 before half. We probably still lose that game but turnovers in a playoff game are killers. 2 to's in scoring range against the niners lost that game for us. Regardless of the niners push in the second half. We at least win that game 30-28. 

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1 minute ago, Old timer fan said:

That happens in game of football. If Ryan doesnt fix it he will eventually be fired but they actually had a compontent offense. Rex addressed what he felt was wrong with defense and Im sure his defense will reapond 

So what makes you think Quinn doesnt think giving up all those 1st downs to TE's and RB's was what was wrong with our defense? Cause it's sure what I felt was wrong with the defense because I SAW pressure. 

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3 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

So what makes you think Quinn doesnt think giving up all those 1st downs to TE's and RB's was what was wrong with our defense? Cause it's sure what I felt was wrong with the defense because I SAW pressure. 

When qbs check down to rbs and TEs that means they have ENOUGH time in pocket to go through progressions. If we are not creating enough havoc and disrupting the pocket teams will continue to check down

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

ok.   guess I was wrong about that one - then he re-signed long-term deal (4yrs, $28.5mm)the next year.  thanks.   The point is still the same - almost the same.

He was far more productive as a passrusher.

Lmao no it's not the same point as before.

Moral is stop equating contract terms to player value. It's a really weak argument man and I think you already know that.

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5 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

I think if they were better at protecting the ball we'd have a SB. We had MULTIPLE turnovers in every playoff game except the Giants game. The only playoff game we won the turnover battle was the Seahawks. The Giants game we were so Ill prepared we should've just turned the ball over. Well I guess we did turn the ball over twice against the Giants. 2 failed 4th down attempts is a turnover. We most definitely could've won more games of the offense didn't turn the ball over. We would've won the Arizona game without those turnovers. The GB game was still close before the pick 6 before half. We probably still lose that game but turnovers in a playoff game are killers. 2 to's in scoring range against the niners lost that game for us. Regardless of the niners push in the second half. We at least win that game 30-28. 

We lost the Giants game because Matt Ryan was getting killed.  Granted, Matt played bad but he was getting crushed.    In the GB game, Aaron Rodgers could do what he wanted because there was no passrush.  The lack of ability on both lines of scrimmage were key factors in both of those games.

In the NFC Championship game, our defense got abused in the 2nd half and SanFran could always make a play when they needed it.  Every game we lost in the playoffs, we lost to a team that was better constructed than our own.    Yes, we certainly had a chance in the NFCCG - but in both that game and our LONE playoff win (Seattle) we could not hold onto leads and our team would wear down.    The offense would try and sit on a lead and the defense would start breaking down in the 2nd half.    Those were flawed teams.

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1 minute ago, ATLFalcons11 said:

Lmao no it's not the same point as before.

Moral is stop equating contract terms to player value. It's a really weak argument man and I think you already know that.

Nobody that follows football seriously thinks Michael Bennett and Courtney Upshaw are in the same hemisphere, much less the same planet.

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17 minutes ago, OBXFalcon said:

I'm with ya Gdawg! I was not a fan and still am not a fan of picking Neal at #17 overall. I really really was hoping for a trade down to get some more quality picks; but it takes two to tango. But when I heard the pick announced I looked over at my buddy who was watching the draft with me and said WTF!! My favorite edge rusher in this class was sitting on the board at our pick (Lawson) as well a couple other quality pass rushers. We could have easily picked Sua Cravens at #50 overall and had every bit as good of a player if they wanted a SS that badly! So I guess we had better hope that Beasley, Hageman, Jarrett and crew step it up this year and Shelby makes an impact as a free agent..

So two things:

1. Lawson isn't really an EDGE rusher on the down we really need it. He's in the same mold as Shelby in that he would move inside on nickel.

2. If they valued Su'a Cravens the same or similar to Neal, then you have to remember that they can't tell the future. Su'a Cravens wasn't known to be "easily" availabke at pick #50.

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3 minutes ago, Old timer fan said:

When qbs check down to rbs and TEs that means they have ENOUGH time in pocket to go through progressions. If we are not creating enough havoc and disrupting the pocket teams will continue to check down

You are aware that pass plays can be called for rbs and tes right? I've seen you spew this garbage a few times now.

Just lol at acting like all RB catches are check downs...

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Just now, Old timer fan said:

When qbs check down to rbs and TEs that means they have ENOUGH time in pocket to go through progressions. If we are not creating enough havoc and disrupting the pocket teams will continue to check down

F*ck no. That's bullsh*t. How do you have the 7th best pressures of All 32 teams but qb's have enough time? We hit the qb a lot so that means they were taking hits to dump the ball off. How much time to you need to hit a running back in the flats? You ain't being realistic so I'm done talking with you about it lol. What pass rusher was gonna stop the outlet from being open. 

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14 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Nobody that follows football seriously thinks Michael Bennett and Courtney Upshaw are in the same hemisphere, much less the same planet.

The moral of the story is still be missed. It's not equating the same style or even the same type of value. 

They are not the same type of player. They bring different things to the team. Upshaw's value is going to be different but that doesn't mean it's going to be less. He will bring value to the team in a different manner.

Bennett was brought up as an example of a guy who's contract terms did not dictate his value.

Edited by ATLFalcons11
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15 minutes ago, Old timer fan said:

That happens in game of football. If Ryan doesnt fix it he will eventually be fired but they actually had a compontent offense. Rex addressed what he felt was wrong with defense and Im sure his defense will reapond 

Dan Quinn addressed what he felt was wrong with defense and Im sure his defense will respond.

Not trying to be a smart a55 but just saying that it works both ways.

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6 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

We lost the Giants game because Matt Ryan was getting killed.  Granted, Matt played bad but he was getting crushed.    In the GB game, Aaron Rodgers could do what he wanted because there was no passrush.  The lack of ability on both lines of scrimmage were key factors in both of those games.

In the NFC Championship game, our defense got abused in the 2nd half and SanFran could always make a play when they needed it.  Every game we lost in the playoffs, we lost to a team that was better constructed than our own.    Yes, we certainly had a chance in the NFCCG - but in both that game and our LONE playoff win (Seattle) we could not hold onto leads and our team would wear down.    The offense would try and sit on a lead and the defense would start breaking down in the 2nd half.    Those were flawed teams.

Every team is flawed man!! All 32. We lost the NFCCG because of 2 to's. PERIOD!! Does it not occur to you we lost the lead bezoar of those to's. Because we did. DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THEY DID IN THE SECOND HALF. WE lost the game by turning the ball over. 

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8 minutes ago, Old timer fan said:

When qbs check down to rbs and TEs that means they have ENOUGH time in pocket to go through progressions. If we are not creating enough havoc and disrupting the pocket teams will continue to check down

I don't get why people say this.

The definition of a hurry is making the QB throw before he wanted to.

Teams watch tape and gameplan for our defense. The gameplan for our defense ever since the 2nd half of the Eagles game was to throw to the backs and get consistent yardage. You don't necessarily have to wait to throw there.

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4 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Every team is flawed man!! All 32. We lost the NFCCG because of 2 to's. PERIOD!! Does it not occur to you we lost the lead bezoar of those to's. Because we did. DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THEY DID IN THE SECOND HALF. WE lost the game by turning the ball over. 

turnovers don't happen in a vacuum - they usually happen because of pressure on the QB.   No one who watched the Giants/Falcons game thought the Falcons were the better team.

Green Bay outclassed us as well.    These were not fluke losses.   Generally in the NFL, the best teams advance and that was the case in each loss - even as far back as the playoff loss to the Cardinals (who were 7-9 but advanced to the SB).

Our flaws over 8 years have been the same - poor defense/no passrush and an inability to protect the passer against playoff caliber defenses.

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17 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

F*ck no. That's bullsh*t. How do you have the 7th best pressures of All 32 teams but qb's have enough time? We hit the qb a lot so that means they were taking hits to dump the ball off. How much time to you need to hit a running back in the flats? You ain't being realistic so I'm done talking with you about it lol. What pass rusher was gonna stop the outlet from being open. 

Name the game Outside the Cowboys the Falcons were getting destroyed by the rbs out of the backfield as primary reads. Go

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18 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

F*ck no. That's bullsh*t. How do you have the 7th best pressures of All 32 teams but qb's have enough time? We hit the qb a lot so that means they were taking hits to dump the ball off. How much time to you need to hit a running back in the flats? You ain't being realistic so I'm done talking with you about it lol. What pass rusher was gonna stop the outlet from being open. 

Falcons had the 7th most pressures cause they faced 35 pass atts per game last season and played backup Qbs that held onto the ball. Again you cant show me where Falcons were killed from rbs out of the backfield outside the Cowboys game. Most of the passes rbs caught against Falcons were mostly checkdowns when Falcons couldnt create enough pressure. 

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2 minutes ago, Old timer fan said:

Name the game Outside the Cowboys the Falcons were getting destroyed by the rbs out of the backfield as primary reads. Go

It actually started the 2nd half of the Eagles game

Redskins deployed it very well and incorporated Jamison Crowder in the process

I could probably go back and find more but you don't get to bottom 4 in receiving yards and receptions for backs and TEs if it doesn't happen in more than a few games.

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