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WE DID NOT REACH!!!!


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Ok guys let’s put our emotions to the side for a second. Look at it like this you set your board based of specific needs and skill sets. You set a range that you would draft these players. You then place an importance on players based off your scheme. Next you set your board based off what other teams would possibly do. I know some people scream reach but let’s be clear. Some players are better depending on the scheme. 

For example you take Maxwell from the Seahawks and he is an average player. You put him back in the scheme he played he becomes a very good player. After years of watching drafts and making mock draft picks, I realized that we only look at a player’s stats and skill and automatically assume they would be great in our scheme.

A player is considered a reach only because NFL network says this player should go in the second or third round. Pay attention they invite players to the draft if they get enough consideration in the first round. NEAL WOULD HAVE BEEN GONE IF WE DID NOT TAKE HIM! He is the player we wanted. Let say we don’t take a player because he was supposed to go around 15 picks later. But we don’t pick for 30 picks later we would miss out on a player that we have on our board because it’s a reach. Now we miss our player then forced to move lower on our board because these next set of players don’t fit our scheme. 

This is the difference between our old staff with Mike Smith vs Dan Quinn. Mike Smith and staff was all over the place we change our scheme at least 3-4 times over the course of his time here. Dan Quinn knows exactly what he wants in a player and to me it’s a refreshing change. We got fast and physical and he is just getting started.

 

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6 minutes ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

Win or lose, succeed or fail, this is all we can ask of our HC, to stick to his plan.

I agree we changed schemes too many times with the old coaching staff and ended up with players that didnt fit our scheme. Now you have squared peg round hole.....lol

Edited by Falcon918
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Well....I've always heard that a team should draft best player available. That's a luxury...that's assuming you do not have some significant holes especially when filling a roster with a particular scheme. CDQ has a vision for what he wants this team to look like....right, wrong or indifferent....he's going to draft for what he see's as the right pieces to the puzzle. If he fails...he's gone...but as tired as I get waiting for us to make it to the mountain top....it's his job to lose.

 There's nothing we can do about it except hope he has this thing right.

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1 minute ago, trubirdfan4life said:

No, i dont think we reached on any guy this year...some folks just were he77 bent on getting DE or DT in the 1st and second that they couldnt see clearly. We got better this weekend....across the board

That's the bottom line. This team got better... not only in the draft but also in FA. I could care less about draft grades or what talking heads say.

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It's ok for you to feel how you feel but please don't tell folk who feel like this pick was a reach to pipe down. This is a message board they can vent if they want. It's not gonna change the pick but it's ok to disagree with the pick. Second, you can't make a factual statement of Neal wouldn't have been there had the Falcons not taken him at 17 because you DO NOT know that for sure. What I don't like is everyone keeps saying a player doesn't fit out scheme blah, blah, blah TD himself stated that he wish he had taken Matthews over Jerry. He didn't take Matthews because he wasn't a scheme fit at the time! Make the player fit your scheme or tweak your scheme around that player especially if the player is uber talented!

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29 minutes ago, jayrockthabarber said:

It's ok for you to feel how you feel but please don't tell folk who feel like this pick was a reach to pipe down. This is a message board they can vent if they want. It's not gonna change the pick but it's ok to disagree with the pick. Second, you can't make a factual statement of Neal wouldn't have been there had the Falcons not taken him at 17 because you DO NOT know that for sure. What I don't like is everyone keeps saying a player doesn't fit out scheme blah, blah, blah TD himself stated that he wish he had taken Matthews over Jerry. He didn't take Matthews because he wasn't a scheme fit at the time! Make the player fit your scheme or tweak your scheme around that player especially if the player is uber talented!

Acutually I was explaining how what you may think is reach for your team is acutally the team not risking losing a player. I never said pipe down but trying to give people a different point of view on why a team takes a player earlier than someone would expect. Once again Dan Quinn and Mike Smith is different. TD picks players based off the specification of what the coach wants. Im willing to bet another team would have drafted him and he would have been gone before our secound pick.  I also said put emotions to the side and here we go I still managed to draw out a poster caught up in his feelings. Obviously this post was not for you but I have a question for you. Wouldnt you say our Team has more talent than what we had two years ago? Would you say we have a clear understanding of what Quinn wants and can see that is exactly what he is bringing here.You have to appreiate that! Oh yeah stop being a MITCH! LOL

Edited by Falcon918
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2 hours ago, Falcon918 said:

Ok guys let’s put our emotions to the side for a second. Look at it like this you set your board based of specific needs and skill sets. You set a range that you would draft these players. You then place an importance on players based off your scheme. Next you set your board based off what other teams would possibly do. I know some people scream reach but let’s be clear. Some players are better depending on the scheme. 

 

For example you take Maxwell from the Seahawks and he is an average player. You put him back in the scheme he played he becomes a very good player. After years of watching drafts and making mock draft picks, I realized that we only look at a player’s stats and skill and automatically assume they would be great in our scheme.

 

A player is considered a reach only because NFL network says this player should go in the second or third round. Pay attention they invite players to the draft if they get enough consideration in the first round. NEAL WOULD HAVE BEEN GONE IF WE DID NOT TAKE HIM! He is the player we wanted. Let say we don’t take a player because he was supposed to go around 15 picks later. But we don’t pick for 30 picks later we would miss out on a player that we have on our board because it’s a reach. Now we miss our player then forced to move lower on our board because these next set of players don’t fit our scheme. 

 

This is the difference between our old staff with Mike Smith vs Dan Quinn. Mike Smith and staff was all over the place we change our scheme at least 3-4 times over the course of his time here. Dan Quinn knows exactly what he wants in a player and to me it’s a refreshing change. We got fast and physical and he is just getting started.

 

 

Perhaps reach is a poor choice of terms. Do you like that we over drafted based on need better? Would we have reached or over drafted if we took Ifedi at 17? Would the Eagles have reached or over drafted if they took Treadwell, or Floyd at number 2? Would the Cowboys have over drafted if they did the same? It does not mean the players they took will be bad and it it is not always a bad thing if you are sure about a player and he fits and fills a need. It does however show a lack of foresight because if you are over drafting a player then you have holes and are gambling. All it means is there was better value on the board at other positions.

Edited by Sobeit
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Just now, Sobeit said:

Perhaps reach is a poor choice of terms. Do you like that we over drafted based on need better? Would we have reached or over drafted if we took Ifedi at 17? Would the Eagles have reached or over drafted if they took Treadwell, or Floyd at number 2? Would the Cowboys have over drafted if they did the same?

It all depends on who is on there board. Would it be smart to draft a RB with your first pick if you already have a Starting RB? Even if it is the best player available. I can see BPA when you have a terrible team (browns) or if you have a team that doesnt have many holes and are set (packers). But it would be ridiculous to not base your draft off needs. The year we drafted Matt Ryan he was not the best player but a player we needed. Miami went BPA. Im glad they did. 

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All people mean by "reach" is that you drafted him at 17 when he would have lasted to 2? otherwise. You "reached" for a need instead of getting BPA on the board at 17. That said, I'm okay for reaching in that context. Its not like we had the option of waiting till the mid 20s. We didn't have a pick in the mid 20s.  We had to play the hand we were dealt.

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3 minutes ago, Falcon918 said:

It all depends on who is on there board. Would it be smart to draft a RB with your first pick if you already have a Starting RB? Even if it is the best player available. I can see BPA when you have a terrible team (browns) or if you have a team that doesnt have many holes and are set (packers). But it would be ridiculous to not base your draft off needs. The year we drafted Matt Ryan he was not the best player but a player we needed. Miami went BPA. Im glad they did. 

If you are drafting purely off needs you will probably never be more than mediocre.

Edited by Sobeit
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1 minute ago, falcndave said:

All people mean by "reach" is that you drafted him at 17 when he would have lasted to 2? otherwise. You "reached" for a need instead of getting BPA on the board at 17. That said, I'm okay for reaching in that context. Its not like we had the option of waiting till the mid 20s. We didn't have a pick in the mid 20s.  We had to play the hand we were dealt.

I agree with this. But to the team thats drafting it may not be considered a reach. During the draft press conference Quinn said there was a number of players they felt comfortable picking at 17. Neal was one of them. So reach to the pundits but not to our staff.

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4 minutes ago, Sobeit said:

If you are drafting purely off needs you will never do more than be mediocre.

No draft is stricly BPA and no draft in off of needs. It all depends on the situation. Do you agree?

Edited by Falcon918
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1 minute ago, atlshocker said:

We drafted a safety that has weakness in coverage and tackling in the first. Instead of Shaq Lawson. I like Neal, but we reached. Stop being fanboys and agreeing with whatever decisions our FO make.

Okay who on our team now is Lawson better than? Do you remember Quinn saying he concentrates on what a player can do. Strengths not there weakness. He puts players in a position to succeed. Neal strengths

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS

 Athletic frame with NFL size. Quick-­twitch player cranks it up to top speed in a hurry. Explodes downhill in run support with blood in his eyes. Vicious hitter looking to bruise bones and set tones. Rangy run stopper. Drives all the way through his contact with aggressive finishes. Scouts impressed by his personal character. Good click and close skill in coverage. Is on top of receiver immediately after the catch. Worked from the box and as single high safety at Florida. Impact tackler around the line of scrimmage. Plays with a sense of desperation and rarely fatigues.
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5 minutes ago, atlshocker said:

We drafted a safety that has weakness in coverage and tackling in the first. Instead of Shaq Lawson. I like Neal, but we reached. Stop being fanboys and agreeing with whatever decisions our FO make.

Nope just a fan that knows I dont put in as much time a they do in evaluating players. They watch miles of tape and spend time on these players. I know what I like but trust me its more to it than what you think. Stop being an arm chair GM. Remember thats what they do for a living. You see my point?  

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17 minutes ago, Falcon918 said:

No draft is stricly BPA and no draft in off of needs. It all depends on the situation. Do you agree?

No it is not but the draft is as much about strategy as it is talent evaluation. You do look for impact players in free agency and you do not run a strictly needs based draft. You fortify your roster through FA and you prioritize positions to improve in the draft. You then try to anticipate where the value will be when you pick in each round and have several strategies in place. In all honesty I think our pick was originally going to be Conklin then when all **** broke loose over Tunsil there was some confusion. Originally I think our plan was to take Conklin then try to move back into the back of the 1st or early 2nd and get either Joseph or Neal.

Edited by Sobeit
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Reach has to do with identifying players, and setting up a plan ahead of time.

So, let's say you pick 15th in each round.

Imagine your #1 need is a man corner.  A couple go before you, and the next one is the 45th best player in the draft.  You know he won't be around until your 2nd round (47) pick, so you take him.

In the 2nd round, you need a fast LB.  There's again a run, and the next best LB on your board is the 85th best player.  You take him because he won't be around at pick 89.

You keep doing this.

So, you come out of the draft with the 45th best player, 85th best player, etc.

This is the equivalent of trading your first pick away for free.  I know it doesn't feel like it, but over the course of the draft, taking a guy who won't make it to your next pick puts you a full round behind taking the best guy.

I'm not complaining about the draft...but this is why a reach is a bigger deal than people think.  Conversely, teams like the Ravens and Pats, tend to get guys who have dropped, so it's as if they get to pick sooner.

 

So, if you set up your board well, and are flexible, you can get the 15th best, 40th best, and 70th best, instead of the 45th best, 85th best, and 110th best with your first 3 picks.

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