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Why do fans not understand how SS Neal's skill set helps the pass rush?


gazoo
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Dang, y'all. Neal is not Kam Chancellor any more than Collins was Richard Sherman. Quinn is using those players' physical attributes to determine what kind of players he's seeking. He's using interviews to see if they have similar personalities. But neither he nor anyone connected with the Falcons is going to proclaim that anybody is the next (fill in the blanks). You don't know if the dog is going to hunt until you put him in the woods and the environment in Atlanta is not the same as it was in Seattle. Neal will be evaluated on his performance and we'll see how he does but let's not expect him to be an all-pro until we see if he's all-rookie first.

And to Gazoo's point, the safety taking out that safety valve is a component on the defense. If he reads the play right, it won't matter if there's a second safety valve because by then that will be at least the fourth read on a play and if we get pressure, it'll be hard to check that far down before we move the QB in the pocket.

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6 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

I love the way people exclaim that Neal is the answer to the pass rush because he's going to cover a safety valve around the LOS. So, what's to prevent the opposing offense from having MORE THAN ONE SAFETY VALVE to dump the ball to? What then? We'll just let Neal cover both players? LOL smmfh.

And even if Neal covers his guy like a blanket, so what? What's to prevent some other receiver from getting open because we still don't have a decent pass rush? If the opposing QB still has 15 minutes to find an open guy, what tf good is Neal? He's not even that good at coverage to begin with, he's just a big hitter who often misses his big hits and gives up unnecessary yards. Stupid pick by stupid people.

I think you are missing the point.  We want them to throw to the "safety valve".  Except now we hopefully have a player than can make the tackle for no or little gain. As well as cause fumbles.

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1 hour ago, gazoo said:

Last year we were 7th in the NFL in hurries with a whopping 111 hurries  http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/total-team-defensive-hurries/2015/    yet we were at bottom of league is sacks with 22. I think Beasely had something like 22 hurries last year.

The question becomes, why such a gross disparity between us being at top of NFL in  team hurries and being at bottom of the league in team sacks 22 when it comes to the Falcons? In answering this question you will find the reason why Quinn said Neal helps our pass rush.

QBs for far too long have been able to dump off the ball quickly to a RB or a TE if the Falcons pass rush is on them  (thus a hurry) The Falcons worked out Neal and tested his skills of hitching onto RBs and TEs, starting at or near the LOS, sneaking out of backfield to catch EASY short passes and bail the QB out from getting sacked. Neal excelled at this, with smooth flexible hips and ability to latch onto them.  He's got long arms, smooth hips and can cover these guys, this in my opinion was the single biggest weakness to our defense last year.

The answer is yes, Neal absolutely helps our pass rush with his ability to take the opposition QBs prime escape valve over the years away and now we'll see several of those hurries being converted to sacks.

Another thing some fans do is question his coverage skills yet ignore HOW we will use him. We aren't asking him to drop into a cover2 deep zone and be the last line of defense in the vast expanse of the deep open field, he's going to be up on the LOS latching onto receivers sneaking out of the backfield in a short zone which Quinn said he was excellent at when they brought him here for a workout. The way Quinn uses his SS makes Neal a PERFECT scheme fit.

 

 

You gotta like this

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41 minutes ago, R_The_Great said:

This is blind hope. You want neal to save us by covering tight ends and running backs? First off neal can Only cover one guy at a time so in theory we need 2 other guys with neals skill set just to cover.  Secondly, no human in the world can cover a receiver for long amounts of time. If the d line can't beat their man due to lack of talent than your already beat in the passing game. Falcons biggest problem since 2009 is their lack of penetration from the d line. You could have legion of boom behind this d line and it still wouldn't matter

But did their dline in 2015 get penetration? Because 7th overall in hurries sound like they got through alot 

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9 minutes ago, paulitik said:

I agree, but so far it's not looking great. 4 game suspension doesn't help. 

 

And don't get me wrong. I like Neal a lot, (despite him being a Gator. ) and we needed a Safety bad. I think he could be a great safety. I just didn't see the wow factor that I saw with a few other players, and like I mentioned, I didn't see enough dfference between him and Cravens to hitting the panic button and grabbing him early.

I'm not angry, just a little confused by the pick, 

 

 

 

I'm angry and I'm questioning why I even bother to keep up with the Falcons at draft time. Every year that comes around I'm left wondering how this FO can pull so many stupid draft choices out of their ***. Ain't no telling who we'll end up with these next four picks, but I'm expecting mass disaster.

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I won't attempt to tackle your logic, I will just say the only way a safety can increase a teams sacks is by getting sacks. This pick

being good or bad depends on the rest of the draft picks. This reminds me of Mike Smith's last draft  when we needed edge rushers and they went and stacked up DT's. Yes we need a SS but the notion that somehow a player will single handedly stop

check downs is a pipe dream. I thought Dimitroff learned his lesson from past draft mistakes, draft what you need the most first. What the falcons need the most is an edge rusher

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18 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

I love the way people exclaim that Neal is the answer to the pass rush because he's going to cover a safety valve around the LOS. So, what's to prevent the opposing offense from having MORE THAN ONE SAFETY VALVE to dump the ball to? What then? We'll just let Neal cover both players? LOL smmfh.

And even if Neal covers his guy like a blanket, so what? What's to prevent some other receiver from getting open because we still don't have a decent pass rush? If the opposing QB still has 15 minutes to find an open guy, what tf good is Neal? He's not even that good at coverage to begin with, he's just a big hitter who often misses his big hits and gives up unnecessary yards. Stupid pick by stupid people.

Thats why we have Olbs and nickle Cbs

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Some people can't see the forrest for the trees. Good players help the team everywhere and in every facet. If you draft an offensive lineman who improves your running game and let's your offense maintain possession longer than everyone on the defense benefits. 

Neal is better than anything we have at safety day one, he'll improve the team. 

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3 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

I'm angry and I'm questioning why I even bother to keep up with the Falcons at draft time. Every year that comes around I'm left wondering how this FO can pull so many stupid draft choices out of their ***. Ain't no telling who we'll end up with these next four picks, but I'm expecting mass disaster.

I've been as detached this year as i have in years, and for the most part, I've been on board with most of our early draft picks in past years, so i can't rip the team for drafting. But this one, just didn't excite me. At 50, i probably would have jumped for joy. 

 

I hope I eat crow. 

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1 hour ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Just wanted to separate this out of the article, because I'm sure it'll get lost. 

No doubt man.  I had no idea we ranked so high on hurries.  That is very encouraging to me.  We are so close.  Don't think for a second that shelby won't be another asset as well.

 

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3 minutes ago, Jahi Sun said:

Thats why we have Olbs and nickle Cbs

hmmmm, but didn't we have OLB's and CB's last year when we were being eaten alive by RB's and TE's? This raw rookie is going to cure all our defensive ills concerning pass rush and dump-offs? Didn't we have a safety last year? Why couldn't that player guard a TE or RB? Neal will somehow be better despite his poor tackling technique and his very average coverage skills? Sorry, I don't see how his addition to the D is going to transform our non-existent pass rush into something respectable.

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42 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Oh... :ninja:.

Well, that might be asking a bit much, too.  Kam Chancellor is a unicorn.  They have him doing stuff at strong safety, especially against the run, I've never seen anyone do from that position.

KamChancellor.gif 

It's been 20 mins already... still watching the video in my reply. He didn't catch him off balance, that was just pure power. If Keanu Neal is even close to Kam we got a steal.

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1 hour ago, R_The_Great said:

This is blind hope. You want neal to save us by covering tight ends and running backs? First off neal can Only cover one guy at a time so in theory we need 2 other guys with neals skill set just to cover.  Secondly, no human in the world can cover a receiver for long amounts of time. If the d line can't beat their man due to lack of talent than your already beat in the passing game. Falcons biggest problem since 2009 is their lack of penetration from the d line. You could have legion of boom behind this d line and it still wouldn't matter

Good shix R! And valid point's. But that is what we are hoping for in the grand scheme of things. No he can't do it all by himself and we can't call it blind hope just yet, till this draft and roster shape up for the best.  2 year process in effect from here on out with new faces and a new home. We can't have it all this year, but we can make a big dent on what we need for the future. We pair this pick up with another LB or DE......we'll see balance for the most part.

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35 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

I love the way people exclaim that Neal is the answer to the pass rush because he's going to cover a safety valve around the LOS. So, what's to prevent the opposing offense from having MORE THAN ONE SAFETY VALVE to dump the ball to? What then? We'll just let Neal cover both players? LOL smmfh.

And even if Neal covers his guy like a blanket, so what? What's to prevent some other receiver from getting open because we still don't have a decent pass rush? If the opposing QB still has 15 minutes to find an open guy, what tf good is Neal? He's not even that good at coverage to begin with, he's just a big hitter who often misses his big hits and gives up unnecessary yards. Stupid pick by stupid people.

This argument doesn't make sense to me. We had a gaping weakness in our defense with an inability to cover RBs and TEs coming out of the backfield and we just addressed that enormous liability according to Quinn

 

Your argument is like saying if your defense is getting destroyed by the deep pass because of poor CB play, there's no use in having good CBs on your defense because teams will just find another way to attack you.

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2 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

hmmmm, but didn't we have OLB's and CB's last year when we were being eaten alive by RB's and TE's? This raw rookie is going to cure all our defensive ills concerning pass rush and dump-offs? Didn't we have a safety last year? Why couldn't that player guard a TE or RB? Neal will somehow be better despite his poor tackling technique and his very average coverage skills? Sorry, I don't see how his addition to the D is going to transform our non-existent pass rush into something respectable.

This is my thought and concern exactly. Neal sounds perfectly average. Is average an upgrade? Maybe. Is that worth a first round pick? Naw. Hope i'm wrong, maybe this dude becomes an above average 8 year starter. Seems like that means he's going to improve exponentially from his college game to pro game.

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1 minute ago, gazoo said:

This argument doesn't make sense to me. We had wan enormous weakness in our defense with an inability to cover RBs and TEs coming out of the backfield and we just addressed that enormous liability.

 

Your argument is like saying if your defense is getting destroyed by the deep pass because of poor CB play, there's no use in having good CBs on your defense because teams will just find another way to attack you.

Your argument is that if you bolster one area of your D, the offense is just going to ignore that you've improved and will keep on attacking that area? With no decent pass rush, my position is opposing offenses will have the time and the strategy to cancel out anything Neal can bring on his own.

Our D is not getting destroyed by poor CB play, it's getting destroyed by lack of a pass rush. That has still not been addressed with the quality of player necessary to solve the problem as it should have been. Instead, we grab a Safety who shouldn't even have been a 1st round draft pick.

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It all sounds good in theory. Quinn coached a top defense in Seattle. It was about the scheme and players who fit the scheme.  What concerns me is that Quinn appears to be looking for players that may physically resemble Seattle players to fit his scheme yet they may not measure up in talent.   Last year's second round pick  Jalen Collins is built like Sherman but he did not in anyway resemble the talent of Sherman.  Now we hear Keanu is supposed to be the Cam Chancellor of this defense. He lacks Cam Chancellor size and throw his body at NFL TE and RB with reckless abandon, at 6 ft 210 he isn't going to last long on the field. 

Only time will tell but at this point Falcons seems to be going against conventional wisdom and using their top picks on projects rather than guys who can step in and contribute. 

  

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1 hour ago, R_The_Great said:

This is blind hope. You want neal to save us by covering tight ends and running backs? First off neal can Only cover one guy at a time so in theory we need 2 other guys with neals skill set just to cover.  Secondly, no human in the world can cover a receiver for long amounts of time. If the d line can't beat their man due to lack of talent than your already beat in the passing game. Falcons biggest problem since 2009 is their lack of penetration from the d line. You could have legion of boom behind this d line and it still wouldn't matter

What a remarkably ignorant response to the conversation! Falcons were #7 in the NFL in hurries but you claim they can't get penetration.

ok

Quinn recognizes it doesn't matter how much penetration you get if the QB can just dump off a quick check to his RB or TE every time you get close to the QB you won't get many sacks.

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59 minutes ago, Jahi Sun said:

But did their dline in 2015 get penetration? Because 7th overall in hurries sound like they got through alot 

EXACTLY

I have no idea what that kid has been smoking . Could be he took a toke off Stone's stem. :)

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