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Defense Wins championships offense sells tickets


atlGM
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Almost every superbowl winner in the past  years was lead by a strong to dominate defense. If you look all the Patriots title runs they were backed by a strong defense. Even with the best QB in the game they fell short until they fielded a strong defense.

I say all this to say can we please please stop with suggestions of adding an offensive player at 17. It has been proving time and time again that a strong defense not offense translates to superbowl wins

SUPER BOWL RESULTS AND MVP WINNERS
SUPER BOWL DATE SCORE MVP
XLIX Feb. 1, 2015 New England 28, Seattle 24 Tom Brady
XLVIII Feb. 2, 2014 Seattle 43, Denver 8 Malcolm Smith
XLVII Feb. 3, 2013 Baltimore 34, San Francisco 31 Joe Flacco
XLVI Feb. 5, 2012 NY Giants 21, New England 17 Eli Manning
XLV Feb. 6, 2011 Green Bay 31, Pittsburgh 25 Aaron Rodgers
XLIV Feb. 7, 2010 New Orleans 31, Indianapolis 17 Drew Brees
XLIII Feb. 1, 2009 Pittsburgh 27, Arizona 23 Santonio Holmes
XLII Feb. 3, 2008 NY Giants 17, New England 14 Eli Manning
XLI Feb. 4, 2007 Indianapolis 29, Chicago 17 Peyton Manning
XL Feb. 5, 2006 Pittsburgh 21, Seattle 10 Hines Ward
XXXIX Feb. 6, 2005 New England 24, Philadelphia 21 Deion Branch
XXXVIII Feb. 1, 2004 New England 32, Carolina 29 Tom Brady
XXXVII Jan. 26, 2003 Tampa Bay 48, Oakland 21 Dexter Jackson
XXXVI Feb. 3, 2002 New England 20, St. Louis 17 Tom Brady
XXXV Jan. 28, 2001 Baltimore 34, NY Giants 7 Ray Lewis
XXXIV Jan. 30, 2000 St. Louis 23, Tennessee 16 Kurt Warner
XXXIII Jan. 31, 1999 Denver 34, Atlanta 19 John Elway
XXXII Jan. 25, 1998 Denver 31, Green Bay 24 Terrell Davis
XXXI Jan. 26, 1997 Green Bay 35, New England 21 Desmond Howard
XXX Jan. 28, 1996 Dallas 27, Pittsburgh 17 Larry Brown
XXIX Jan. 29, 1995 San Francisco 49, San Diego 26 Steve Young
XXVIII Jan. 30, 1994 Dallas 30, Buffalo 13 Emmitt Smith
XXVII Jan. 31, 1993 Dallas 52, Buffalo 17 Troy Aikman
XXVI Jan. 26, 1992 Washington 37, Buffalo 24 Mark Rypien
XXV Jan. 27, 1991 New York Giants 20, Buffalo 19 Ottis Anderson
XXIV Jan. 28, 1990 San Francisco 55, Denver 10 Joe Montana
XXIII Jan. 22, 1989 San Francisco 20, Cincinnati 16 Jerry Rice
XXII Jan. 31, 1988 Washington 42, Denver 10 Doug Williams
XXI Jan. 25, 1987 New York Giants 39, Denver 20 Phil Simms
XX Jan. 26, 1986 Chicago 46, New England 10 Richard Dent
XIX Jan. 20, 1985 San Francisco 38, Miami 16 Joe Montana
XVIII Jan. 22, 1984 Los Angeles 38, Washington 9 Marcus Allen
XVII Jan. 30, 1983 Washington 27, Miami 17 John Riggins
XVI Jan. 24, 1982 San Francisco 26, Cincinnati 21 Joe Montana
XV Jan. 25, 1981 Oakland 27, Philadelphia 10 Jim Plunkett
XIV Jan. 20, 1980 Pittsburgh 31, Los Angeles 19 Terry Bradshaw
XIII Jan. 21, 1979 Pittsburgh 35, Dallas 31 Terry Bradshaw
XII Jan. 15, 1978 Dallas 27, Denver 10 H. Martin, R. White
XI Jan. 9, 1977 Oakland 32, Minnesota 14 Fred Biletnikoff
X Jan. 18, 1976 Pittsburgh 21, Dallas 17 Lynn Swann
IX Jan. 12, 1975 Pittsburgh 16, Minnesota 6 Franco Harris
VIII Jan. 13, 1974 Miami 24, Minnesota 7 Larry Csonka
VII Jan. 14, 1973 Miami 14, Washington 7 Jake Scott
VI Jan. 16, 1972 Dallas 24, Miami 3 Roger Staubach
V Jan. 17, 1971 Baltimore 16, Dallas 13 Chuck Howley
IV Jan. 11, 1970 Kansas City 23, Minnesota 7 Len Dawson
III Jan. 12, 1969 NY Jets 16, Baltimore 7 Joe Namath
II Jan. 14, 1968 Green Bay 33, Oakland 14 Bart Starr
I Jan. 15, 1967 Green Bay 35, Kansas City 10 Bart Starr
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Ugh. 

One more time: good teams win championships. Not "defense." Not "offense." Good teams. 

The reason Super Bowl participants typically have good defenses is....because they're good teams. 

In general, a team's success is approximately 4 parts offense, 3 parts defense, 1 part special teams. But if you're gonna be mediocre or worse at offense or defense, you're going to be fighting uphill to win a Super Bowl. Even then, it's not impossible. Just as it's not impossible to compete for a SB with a marginal defense and a strong offense. 

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6 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Ugh. 

One more time: good teams win championships. Not "defense." Not "offense." Good teams. 

The reason Super Bowl participants typically have good defenses is....because they're good teams. 

In general, a team's success is approximately 4 parts offense, 3 parts defense, 1 part special teams. But if you're gonna be mediocre or worse at offense or defense, you're going to be fighting uphill to win a Super Bowl. Even then, it's not impossible. Just as it's not impossible to compete for a SB with a marginal defense and a strong offense. 

I haven't looked in awhile but I'd venture to say defense wins more championships. Even for the Colt and Aint anomalies. Both of those defenses rose up at the right time.

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Well, I look at it like this. Example: 80's 9er's

One of the most underrated O'line and Defense of all time imo.

They had it all....T.E., WR's, FB, and so on.

Could play any type of ball with you........High scoring, defensive battle or whatever.

They blew out one opponent in a Elway led Bronco team. Other SB victories were close.

Any piece to our puzzle will help!

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So, rule of thumb is:

If you have a team that is nearly elite on one side of the ball, and not close on the other...Get them to elite on that one side, and then work on the weaker side.

It's quicker, because you require fewer players, and it results in likely playoffs and Super Bowl shots.  This gives you several years to fix your sub par side while still having an open window.  (And, if one side is elite, it should give you a better shot to get FA's on the other side, knowing they can be what puts you over the top)

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If a higher-tiered OL is on the board, then he must be considered very seriously.  Why?

1.  Because our OL lost us more games in that past few years than our defenses.

2.  Because reaching for a lesser-tiered talent has been a Falcon downfall.

3.  Because we had lousy play from our LB's.  I believe that an upgrade in talent can be drafted in the second round.  In other words, we don't NEED to draft a LB/DE in the first round to make a gain in our defense.

 

Do I want the best defense on the planet?  YES.  But, the star defender may not drop into our lap at #17.   

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5 minutes ago, takeitdown said:

So, rule of thumb is:

If you have a team that is nearly elite one one side of the ball, and not close on the other...Get them to elite on that one side, and then work on the weaker side.

It's quicker, because you require fewer players, and it results in likely playoffs and Super Bowl shots.  This gives you several years to fix your sub par side while still having an open window.  (And, if one team is elite, it should give you a better shot to get FA's on the other side, knowing they can be what puts you over the top)

Wow! You took the grammar errors right off my keyboard! Well said.

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5 minutes ago, atlGM said:

unless you have Rodgers Manning or Brady you better have a dominant defense point blank. 

That's just not at all the reality.

I love aggressive defense, so I want to see one.  But having a top 5 offense or defense is the key.  Building to being 15 at each is pretty useless.  Being top 5 at one, and opportunistic at the other is the start.

End goal is top 5 on one side, top 10 on the other.

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5 minutes ago, takeitdown said:

That's just not at all the reality.

I love aggressive defense, so I want to see one.  But having a top 5 offense or defense is the key.  Building to being 15 at each is pretty useless.  Being top 5 at one, and opportunistic at the other is the start.

End goal is top 5 on one side, top 10 on the other.

What other team is their that hasn't had a dominant defense or on the flip side had a hall of fame QB.

Edited by atlGM
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2 minutes ago, atlGM said:

What other team is their that hasn't had a dominant defense or on the flip side had a hall of fame QB.

Well, it depends largely on which causes which.  If the Falcons go to and win 2 super bowls, Matt Ryan will be a HOF QB...and if they don't, he won't be a HOF QB, even if he plays the same.

Flacco, Roethlisberger, Kurt Warner are all good QBs who aren't "best ever" at their position.  Jake Delhomme, Rich Gannon.

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I think you misunderstand the the platitude in which you are pontificating on...

Winning, is the only thing that sells tickets... Not offense... nor defense... Winning...

However, a dominate offense can carry a team thru the regular season with a winning record, it is the defense which must also be functional to be a contender in the playoffs and beyond...


But to your opinion of espousing a defensive based draft, I wholeheartedly agree and hope the Falcons do just that...

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1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I haven't looked in awhile but I'd venture to say defense wins more championships. Even for the Colt and Aint anomalies. Both of those defenses rose up at the right time.

Last team to win a SB without scoring? Last team to win a SB without scoring more than the other team? Last team to win a SB keeping the other team from scoring?

Teams need to be good on both sides of the ball....have some luck, and play well for a 3-4 game stretch in January/February....

I'd even throw the QB argument out there....look at those teams and the QBs on them....probably a good argument for offense, not defense....take the QB off the team, would they still have probably won???? Take the DT off the team, would they still have probably won????

There are wayyyyyy tooo many pieces to the SB winning puzzle...

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5 hours ago, atlGM said:

Almost every superbowl winner in the past  years was lead by a strong to dominate defense. If you look all the Patriots title runs they were backed by a strong defense. Even with the best QB in the game they fell short until they fielded a strong defense.

I say all this to say can we please please stop with suggestions of adding an offensive player at 17. It has been proving time and time again that a strong defense not offense translates to superbowl wins

SUPER BOWL RESULTS AND MVP WINNERS
SUPER BOWL DATE SCORE MVP
XLIX Feb. 1, 2015 New England 28, Seattle 24 Tom Brady
XLVIII Feb. 2, 2014 Seattle 43, Denver 8 Malcolm Smith
XLVII Feb. 3, 2013 Baltimore 34, San Francisco 31 Joe Flacco
XLVI Feb. 5, 2012 NY Giants 21, New England 17 Eli Manning
XLV Feb. 6, 2011 Green Bay 31, Pittsburgh 25 Aaron Rodgers
XLIV Feb. 7, 2010 New Orleans 31, Indianapolis 17 Drew Brees
XLIII Feb. 1, 2009 Pittsburgh 27, Arizona 23 Santonio Holmes
XLII Feb. 3, 2008 NY Giants 17, New England 14 Eli Manning
XLI Feb. 4, 2007 Indianapolis 29, Chicago 17 Peyton Manning
XL Feb. 5, 2006 Pittsburgh 21, Seattle 10 Hines Ward
XXXIX Feb. 6, 2005 New England 24, Philadelphia 21 Deion Branch
XXXVIII Feb. 1, 2004 New England 32, Carolina 29 Tom Brady
XXXVII Jan. 26, 2003 Tampa Bay 48, Oakland 21 Dexter Jackson
XXXVI Feb. 3, 2002 New England 20, St. Louis 17 Tom Brady
XXXV Jan. 28, 2001 Baltimore 34, NY Giants 7 Ray Lewis
XXXIV Jan. 30, 2000 St. Louis 23, Tennessee 16 Kurt Warner
XXXIII Jan. 31, 1999 Denver 34, Atlanta 19 John Elway
XXXII Jan. 25, 1998 Denver 31, Green Bay 24 Terrell Davis
XXXI Jan. 26, 1997 Green Bay 35, New England 21 Desmond Howard
XXX Jan. 28, 1996 Dallas 27, Pittsburgh 17 Larry Brown
XXIX Jan. 29, 1995 San Francisco 49, San Diego 26 Steve Young
XXVIII Jan. 30, 1994 Dallas 30, Buffalo 13 Emmitt Smith
XXVII Jan. 31, 1993 Dallas 52, Buffalo 17 Troy Aikman
XXVI Jan. 26, 1992 Washington 37, Buffalo 24 Mark Rypien
XXV Jan. 27, 1991 New York Giants 20, Buffalo 19 Ottis Anderson
XXIV Jan. 28, 1990 San Francisco 55, Denver 10 Joe Montana
XXIII Jan. 22, 1989 San Francisco 20, Cincinnati 16 Jerry Rice
XXII Jan. 31, 1988 Washington 42, Denver 10 Doug Williams
XXI Jan. 25, 1987 New York Giants 39, Denver 20 Phil Simms
XX Jan. 26, 1986 Chicago 46, New England 10 Richard Dent
XIX Jan. 20, 1985 San Francisco 38, Miami 16 Joe Montana
XVIII Jan. 22, 1984 Los Angeles 38, Washington 9 Marcus Allen
XVII Jan. 30, 1983 Washington 27, Miami 17 John Riggins
XVI Jan. 24, 1982 San Francisco 26, Cincinnati 21 Joe Montana
XV Jan. 25, 1981 Oakland 27, Philadelphia 10 Jim Plunkett
XIV Jan. 20, 1980 Pittsburgh 31, Los Angeles 19 Terry Bradshaw
XIII Jan. 21, 1979 Pittsburgh 35, Dallas 31 Terry Bradshaw
XII Jan. 15, 1978 Dallas 27, Denver 10 H. Martin, R. White
XI Jan. 9, 1977 Oakland 32, Minnesota 14 Fred Biletnikoff
X Jan. 18, 1976 Pittsburgh 21, Dallas 17 Lynn Swann
IX Jan. 12, 1975 Pittsburgh 16, Minnesota 6 Franco Harris
VIII Jan. 13, 1974 Miami 24, Minnesota 7 Larry Csonka
VII Jan. 14, 1973 Miami 14, Washington 7 Jake Scott
VI Jan. 16, 1972 Dallas 24, Miami 3 Roger Staubach
V Jan. 17, 1971 Baltimore 16, Dallas 13 Chuck Howley
IV Jan. 11, 1970 Kansas City 23, Minnesota 7 Len Dawson
III Jan. 12, 1969 NY Jets 16, Baltimore 7 Joe Namath
II Jan. 14, 1968 Green Bay 33, Oakland 14 Bart Starr
I Jan. 15, 1967 Green Bay 35, Kansas City 10 Bart Starr

your draft take is good but all most of those teams have big time qb's

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I made this point about 5 years ago and no one wanted to hear it. All anyone wanted to do was outscore everyone because of the way the Packers smoked us. Had folks arguing that defense didn't matter anymore because it was an offensive league; they didn't even wanna hear about running the ball.

Guess it really is true that if you live long enough everything comes full circle.

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2 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I haven't looked in awhile but I'd venture to say defense wins more championships. Even for the Colt and Aint anomalies. Both of those defenses rose up at the right time.

The Colts and Saints championships are just as anomalous as the Broncos 2015 and Ravens 2000 championships. 

Defense doesnt win "more" championships. Good teams win championships. 

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55 minutes ago, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Last team to win a SB without scoring? Last team to win a SB without scoring more than the other team? Last team to win a SB keeping the other team from scoring?

Teams need to be good on both sides of the ball....have some luck, and play well for a 3-4 game stretch in January/February....

I'd even throw the QB argument out there....look at those teams and the QBs on them....probably a good argument for offense, not defense....take the QB off the team, would they still have probably won???? Take the DT off the team, would they still have probably won????

There are wayyyyyy tooo many pieces to the SB winning puzzle...

Yep. Frankly, I think using SB winners as a barometer for what "wins championships" is completely missing the point in most cases. There's so much randomness at the divisional round level that its impossible to truly separate what "won" the game. Like you said, it's usually a combo of performances on both sides of the ball, some good fortune, etc. 

But folks simply refuse to accept that uncertainty. Because then what would they ***** about? 

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