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HaRdH3ad
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32 minutes ago, HaRdH3ad said:

Didn't see this posted, if it was sorry. 

I doubted for awhile that the Falcons would draft a safety - thinking they might have designs for Robert Therezie, Jalen Collins or Akeem King to be developed into the starting SS - I don't feel this way anymore - we seem to be working out or meeting with every possible top safety in the draft.

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13 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I doubted for awhile that the Falcons would draft a safety - thinking they might have designs for Robert Therezie, Jalen Collins or Akeem King to be developed into the starting SS - I don't feel this way anymore - we seem to be working out or meeting with every possible top safety in the draft.

We should take a Safety in every round of our draft. Then we can keep one and try to trade a Safety needy team for an LB. Brilliant!

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MLB and SS both being pro-bowl caliber does seem to be a fairly common factor of Superbowl Defenses, though not a requirement.

Denver - Marshall/Trevathan and T.J. Ward

Seattle's SB D's - Wagner/Chancellor

Steelers - Harrison/Polamalu

Patriots early 2000's - Bruschi/Milloy

 

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32 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

It is middle LB. Name the starting strong safety for the 2000 Baltimore Ravens?

Brah, i PLAYED safety. I played defense. Your strong safety is the FREE man on defense that dictates how the defense is played and how the offense responds. The KEY to a great defense is strong safety, and strong safety SHOULD be the key to ANY defensive scheme.  

Sure, a great middle linebacker is important, but its the free safety that determines the scheme and gives or takes your advantage away on defense. When offenses can pound the ball with the running game, its the STRONG SAFETY that has to come down into the box. If the offense is getting wild in the passing game, the Strong Safety has to play back.  

In fact, ive always thought that the people who assigned the names FREE safety and STRONG safety got it wrong. Your strong safety is actually the one who is FREE to come up in run support, or drop back in passing coverage.

On a side note, what makes Nick Saban's scheme strong, and DIFFERENT than any other scheme is the fact that his free safety has to be good enough so that he can keep his strong safety down in run support, even on passing plays. In other words, he tries to keep his base scheme and base players for 3 downs.  He used to be able to substitute big boys upfront to keep them fresh for all 3 downs, but when colleges starting going with the no huddle, it forced him into recruiting smaller types who could stay on the field longer without coming out of the game.  In other words, if you play in NIck's scheme, you are a 3 down player. Thats why i wjould draft ANYBODY that comes out of his system.

Edited by slickgadawg
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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

I doubted for awhile that the Falcons would draft a safety - thinking they might have designs for Robert Therezie, Jalen Collins or Akeem King to be developed into the starting SS - I don't feel this way anymore - we seem to be working out or meeting with every possible top safety in the draft.

Glad you are finally coming to the realization that SS is not just an upgrade needed on the team, but is in fact a BIG NEED....Guarantee you that SEA defense isn't the same without Thomas and Chancellor...or BAL past defense without Ed Reed, or GB in the day with Leroy Butler, or DEN in their SB runs without Steve Atwater....

I'm super ecstatic our team is looking at the safeties...we are going to get a STUD out of any of the following: Cravens, Killebrew, Cash, Joseph, Thompson, Bell, Davis, Green, Simmons....

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35 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Brah, i PLAYED safety. I played defense. Your strong safety is the FREE man on defense that dictates how the defense is played and how the offense responds. The KEY to a great defense is strong safety, and strong safety SHOULD be the key to ANY defensive scheme.  

Sure, a great middle linebacker is important, but its the free safety that determines the scheme and gives or takes your advantage away on defense. When offenses can pound the ball with the running game, its the STRONG SAFETY that has to come down into the box. If the offense is getting wild in the passing game, the Strong Safety has to play back.  

In fact, ive always thought that the people who assigned the names FREE safety and STRONG safety got it wrong. Your strong safety is actually the one who is FREE to come up in run support, or drop back in passing coverage.

On a side note, what makes Nick Saban's scheme strong, and DIFFERENT than any other scheme is the fact that his free safety has to be good enough so that he can keep his strong safety down in run support, even on passing plays. In other words, he tries to keep his base scheme and base players for 3 downs.  He used to be able to substitute big boys upfront to keep them fresh for all 3 downs, but when colleges starting going with the no huddle, it forced him into recruiting smaller types who could stay on the field longer without coming out of the game.  In other words, if you play in NIck's scheme, you are a 3 down player. Thats why i wjould draft ANYBODY that comes out of his system.

You think you the only one that played safety? I played too although only in high school. and i personally saw Ed Reed and Sean Taylor play at Miami. Jonathan Vilma was the glue that held those defenses together. I dont care what scheme you come out of. The scheme you play in college has no bearing on how well or bad you play in the pros

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this doesn't surprise me. While we have an immediate whole at SS, the FS is arguable the most valuable piece of this scheme. I have read time and time again how Earl Thomas is the main cog in the SEA DBs, not Sherman. While Allen was good/serviceable, I am sure they are still wanting to find their Earl Thomas for the ATL.

The kid from WVU (Joseph) is one to keep an eye on. I could see us making a go for him to be our field general in the back half. Vonn Bell seems like a nice fit for FS in this scheme too. One of these guys could even be in play round 1 depending how the board falls. I would think Bell has a better chance to go in round 1 than Joseph though.

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12 minutes ago, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Glad you are finally coming to the realization that SS is not just an upgrade needed on the team, but is in fact a BIG NEED....Guarantee you that SEA defense isn't the same without Thomas and Chancellor...or BAL past defense without Ed Reed, or GB in the day with Leroy Butler, or DEN in their SB runs without Steve Atwater....

I'm super ecstatic our team is looking at the safeties...we are going to get a STUD out of any of the following: Cravens, Killebrew, Cash, Joseph, Thompson, Bell, Davis, Green, Simmons....

That Baltimore defense isnt the same without Ray Lewis. Tell me who was the starting SS on the 2000 Baltimore Super Bowl team?

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8 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

That Baltimore defense isnt the same without Ray Lewis. Tell me who was the starting SS on the 2000 Baltimore Super Bowl team?

c'mon dude, Rod Woodson was a pretty darn good safety for them. And I know you said SS, but we need SS and FS upgrades on this team. It is arguable that Woodson was as good a DB as Lewis was a LB.

This scheme needs an ELITE FS. While Allen is okay, I think he could be upgraded as easily as SS. Bell, Thompson, Joseph could be good fits for FS for us.

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1 minute ago, 1989Fan said:

c'mon dude, Rod Woodson was a pretty darn good safety for them. And I know you said SS, but we need SS and FS upgrades on this team.

Rod Woodson wasnt the 2000 Defensive Player of the Year or the Super Bowl MVP. And we do need both upgrades but that was never part of the argument

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2 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

Rod Woodson wasnt the 2000 Defensive Player of the Year or the Super Bowl MVP. And we do need both upgrades but that was never part of the argument

I will give you that. My point is they may not get there without Woodson, just like they wouldn't without Lewis. I guess I twisted his argument a bit when he was pushing SS, and I am more concerned about FS in this scheme.

That said, I also agree w you that SS is nowhere near as big a need for this team or scheme as MLB. strength up the middle is what we need DT, MLB, FS. Think about the talent SEA has/had at those positions.

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13 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

You think you the only one that played safety? I played too although only in high school. and i personally saw Ed Reed and Sean Taylor play at Miami. Jonathan Vilma was the glue that held those defenses together. I dont care what scheme you come out of. The scheme you play in college has no bearing on how well or bad you play in the pros

Didnt mean to ruffle your feathers, lol......................Look, we aint gonna agree on it. My opinion, free safety is key, but you DO have to have a good middle linebacker. Who is the most VERSATILE defender???????????? FREE SAFETY.........

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4 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

I will give you that. My point is they may not get there without Woodson, just like they wouldn't without Lewis. I guess I twisted his argument a bit when he was pushing SS, and I am more concerned about FS in this scheme.

That said, I also agree w you that SS is nowhere near as big a need for this team or scheme as MLB. strength up the middle is what we need DT, MLB, FS. Think about the talent SEA has/had at those positions.

I agree. Although we really need help at safety. Just not bigger than MLB. I think Rico did ok last year

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16 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

That Baltimore defense isnt the same without Ray Lewis. Tell me who was the starting SS on the 2000 Baltimore Super Bowl team?

 

http://m.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Top-50-All-Time-Ravens-Complete-List/484D4B55-A0D1-4A4D-B629-AB4CD0072E0F

No. 50: S Kim Herring, 1997-2000
Just squeaking onto the list is Herring, the starting strong safety for the Super Bowl team of 2000. Herring had just four career interceptions with Baltimore, but they all came during that title season, including one in the Super Bowl itself.

 

 

Doesn't really help your argument...

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4 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Didnt mean to ruffle your feathers, lol......................Look, we aint gonna agree on it. My opinion, free safety is key, but you DO have to have a good middle linebacker. Who is the most VERSATILE defender???????????? FREE SAFETY.........

Could've sworn you said STRONG safety.  I think the free safety vs mlb is closer in that debate. 

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6 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Didnt mean to ruffle your feathers, lol......................Look, we aint gonna agree on it. My opinion, free safety is key, but you DO have to have a good middle linebacker. Who is the most VERSATILE defender???????????? FREE SAFETY.........

I thought you said SS? In Quinn's system the SS has to be the most versatile. Cause they play in the box and act like a 4th safety a lot of times. Cant edit but i mean a 4th LB

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25 minutes ago, Atlfanstckndenver said:

Could've sworn you said STRONG safety.  I think the free safety vs mlb is closer in that debate. 

MY BAD, i did say strong safety...........All a free safety has to do is cover.

Edited by slickgadawg
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25 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

I thought you said SS? In Quinn's system the SS has to be the most versatile. Cause they play in the box and act like a 4th safety a lot of times. Cant edit but i mean a 4th LB

My bad, i did say free safety.  All a free safety has to do is cover.

Edited by slickgadawg
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46 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

That Baltimore defense isnt the same without Ray Lewis. Tell me who was the starting SS on the 2000 Baltimore Super Bowl team?

I wasn't specifically referring to the 2000 ravens, but Rod Woodson is a HOF if that is the point you were trying to make...

Yes, Ray Lewis meant a lot to those Ravens defenses in the mid 2000s, but I would argue that Ed Reed meant as much as well...he was also DPOY...

And from a playmaking, turnover perspective, Ed Reed certainly was more prolific...I would argue Ed Reed is what allowed Chris McAlister to be a stud on the outside...One could argue that a GREAT safety "bails" out average LBs or enhances their play along with enhancing the play of CBs...

With more 3WR sets and athletic TEs, the premium is on a SS and FS tht can cover, run, and tackle in open space...NOT a MLB...

Edited by Matt_The Iceman_Ryan
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