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Whats is the LEO again?


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I thought the leo made the 4-3 and 3-4 indistinguishable from each other. The LEO can be a de and olb at the same darn time. Beasley is a great combination of strength and speed. Although he lacked coverage skills, that what Biermann and Schofield brought to the table. All three are versitile d lineman. That why they where the LEOs. Or so i thought. Thats how i do it in madden anyway. Putting olbs at de with two runstopping des or pass rushing des at dt is another package i use. Another concept of the leo. Its that nickel package everyone has been using.

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It's not that they are indistinguishable. The 4/3 leo uses some aspects of a 3/4 in regard to the personnel used. The alignment is still a 4/3. Leo is a pure pass rusher and can either be a 4/3 DE or 3/4 OLB body type. The important thing is he lines up outside of the tackle and whichever body type he is he must be able to rush the passer. 

Our typical line will look like this. DE3/4 - Nose 3/4 - DT 4/3 - Leo (4/3 DE or 3/4 Olb)

The LBs at the 2nd level are typical 4/3 LBs

The Under or Over in the description indicates if the line aligns to the left or right of a typical 4/3 alignment. Typically, the LBs align in the opposite direction of the DLine. 

The main pass rushers in the defense will be the DT4/3 and the Leo. The DE3/4 and Nose 3/4 are stuffers by design and if they generate a pass rush it's a bounus. This is what irks me about people saying Tyson Jackson stinks, He's not expected to get sacks at his position and he did pretty well given what was expected of his position. 

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Odb good post. So many people can't understand this and just use the term Leo where ever they want. This includes posters and media types like DOLt.  Pete carroll talks about it in his time with San Fran 49ers. Field gulls have multiple articles on it. Leo is a take on the word elephant which was the package the created with 3 heavy DT and 1 lighter, LB type pure pass rusher in a 4 man front dline. Elephant package looks like 3-4 personnel but line up in 4-3 formation. 

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This is an excellent question because there seems to be some misinformation around here in some people thinking that Upshaw would be one.  ODB has it right.

LEO stands for:

(LINEMEN END OPEN) - in short, it is the defensive lineman that plays to the open end of the formation.  What is the open end of the formation?  The weak side away from the tight end.  He is the smallest of the linemen because you are looking for explosion and speed, that is a must.  He doesn't necessarily have to be small but you can trade away size for speed at this position because of the way he is aligned.  By design, he doesn't have to do anything but get up the field and squeeze down if it's a run.

He's not a linebacker at all.  He may have the body of one, and he may zone drop the way all defensive linemen will from time-to-time, but he is a lineman!

This is why I shake my head when I see posters saying Beasley isn't big enough to play defensive end or that he needs to put on weight.  Um, no he doesn't, because he's not playing defensive end.  LEO is a very unique position to the conventional 4-3 defense that he is actually perfect for.

 

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15 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Here's a pic.  The LEO is in a few feet tighter here but you get the idea.  He is always playing to the weak-side of the defense so he rushes against both tackles.  

MuthHawks-1.jpg

 

came here to post this exact picture :lol:

 

Basically Leo is the primary pass rusher on most plays and he does not really have a run assignment even on run downs. His job is to get up the field and put pressure on the QB. He will always play on the weak side in base defense vs base offense(the side of the O-line without a TE). People also refer to the position as RDE, tho Leo from my understanding aligns in a wider stance from the OT and can also swap sides.

this might also help 

4-3_Under_medium_JPG.jpg

 

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59 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

This is an excellent question because there seems to be some misinformation around here in some people thinking that Upshaw would be one.  ODB has it right.

LEO stands for:

(LINEMEN END OPEN) - in short, it is the defensive lineman that plays to the open end of the formation.  What is the open end of the formation?  The weak side away from the tight end.  He is the smallest of the linemen because you are looking for explosion and speed, that is a must.  He doesn't necessarily have to be small but you can trade away size for speed at this position because of the way he is aligned.  By design, he doesn't have to do anything but get up the field and squeeze down if it's a run.

He's not a linebacker at all.  He may have the body of one, and he may zone drop the way all defensive linemen will from time-to-time, but he is a lineman!

This is why I shake my head when I see posters saying Beasley isn't big enough to play defensive end or that he needs to put on weight.  Um, no he doesn't, because he's not playing defensive end.  LEO is a very unique position to the conventional 4-3 defense that he is actually perfect for.

 

Speed is great, but Beasley was too small and too weak to be consistently effective last season. He was getting swallowed up by OT's with very little effort far too often. And he was a straight up liability against the run.

I'm not asking for 270+ conventional DE size. Just about 250-255 lean muscle mass would allow him to keep his speed.

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15 minutes ago, Oldskooler said:

Speed is great, but Beasley was too small and too weak to be consistently effective last season. He was getting swallowed up by OT's with very little effort far too often. And he was a straight up liability against the run.

I'm not asking for 270+ conventional DE size. Just about 250-255 lean muscle mass would allow him to keep his speed.

You don't listen very well do you?

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35 minutes ago, Oldskooler said:

Speed is great, but Beasley was too small and too weak to be consistently effective last season. He was getting swallowed up by OT's with very little effort far too often. And he was a straight up liability against the run.

I'm not asking for 270+ conventional DE size. Just about 250-255 lean muscle mass would allow him to keep his speed.

We would have to pour over some video together to make sure we're talking about the same thing, but what you just described is technique more than anything, and that's something that even the biggest, strongest college defensive ends struggle with coming into the league.  I noticed that sometimes he didn't properly set up a move, or stayed a tad too high running the arc.

As far as getting swallowed up, well you have to look at what was going on with the rest of the line on a particular play because the Falcons ran a lot more stunts last season, and on some of them his actual job was to get swallowed up.

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LEO's do have an assignment in the run-game. They have the weakside contain (from the outside of the OT to the sideline)

I'm torn between my first pick Darron Lee and Emmanual Ogbah, because Ogbah would give us a Demarcus Ware-bodied LEO to our Von Miller-bodied Sam (where we would move Vic). I'm worried about his body resisting the added pounds it takes to keep him around 245, and him either not being able to maintain it, or becoming more injury-prone because his joints/ligaments won't support it as well.

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4 hours ago, Oldskooler said:

Speed is great, but Beasley was too small and too weak to be consistently effective last season. He was getting swallowed up by OT's with very little effort far too often. And he was a straight up liability against the run.

I'm not asking for 270+ conventional DE size. Just about 250-255 lean muscle mass would allow him to keep his speed.

LOL why enter a discussion youknow 0 about donkey.

STFU sit back and watch and learn.

Save all this 2 weak BS Beasley's only been a pro 1 year and you already assuming he can't get better or stronger.

Your such a clueless donkey I'm laughing everytime you post.

EEEEEEAAAAAAWWWWWWW....

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4 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

We would have to pour over some video together to make sure we're talking about the same thing, but what you just described is technique more than anything, and that's something that even the biggest, strongest college defensive ends struggle with coming into the league.  I noticed that sometimes he didn't properly set up a move, or stayed a tad too high running the arc.

As far as getting swallowed up, well you have to look at what was going on with the rest of the line on a particular play because the Falcons ran a lot more stunts last season, and on some of them his actual job was to get swallowed up.

Indeed!  If he was 'Old School' as the name implies,  he would realize that Patrick Kerney only amassed 5 sacks total in his first two seasons!  (Abraham did have 4.5 in his first and busted out his second year with 13!)  Michael Bennett only had six total in his first four seasons.  I think Beasley will turn out just fine and showed some good flashes last season.  It's just a matter of adjusting his technique and learning what works against professional level offensive tackles that he faces.

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4 hours ago, abcranford2 said:

You don't listen very well do you?

I'm sorry, did you say something?

Well, something worth listening to?

24 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

LOL why enter a discussion youknow 0 about donkey.

STFU sit back and watch and learn.

Save all this 2 weak BS Beasley's only been a pro 1 year and you already assuming he can't get better or stronger.

Your such a clueless donkey I'm laughing everytime you post.

EEEEEEAAAAAAWWWWWWW....

What a moron.

I never said he can't get bigger or stronger; I have said he has no intention of doing so, and that he thinks he is just fine at 238 pounds.

"If I work out harder and just continue to replace the calories that I burn in practice, I'll be fine," Beasley said. "I want to be 238, 240. Being in that range, I'll be good."

No, he won't be. 250+ of lean muscle mass is the range in which he'll be good. At 238, he will never have the strength to hold the edge on a rush, or to shed a blocker that has engaged him. This was proven last year.

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8 minutes ago, falconfansince66 said:

Indeed!  If he was 'Old School' as the name implies,  he would realize that Patrick Kerney only amassed 5 sacks total in his first two seasons!  (Abraham did have 4.5 in his first and busted out his second year with 13!)  Michael Bennett only had six total in his first four seasons.  I think Beasley will turn out just fine and showed some good flashes last season.  It's just a matter of adjusting his technique and learning what works against professional level offensive tackles that he faces.

Show me where I referenced sack totals.

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2 minutes ago, Oldskooler said:

Show me where I referenced sack totals.

That's usually where a "Leo" is judged. Their prime function is rushing the passer.  If it's a run, his job then becomes to force it into the middle.  He is not a 'true' DE, because in this role, speed, quickness & agility is what matters most.  They're not there to out-muscle offensive tackles, just use their dynamics to buzz around them and into the QB's face. 

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28 minutes ago, Oldskooler said:

I'm sorry, did you say something?

Well, something worth listening to?

What a moron.

I never said he can't get bigger or stronger; I have said he has no intention of doing so, and that he thinks he is just fine at 238 pounds.

"If I work out harder and just continue to replace the calories that I burn in practice, I'll be fine," Beasley said. "I want to be 238, 240. Being in that range, I'll be good."

No, he won't be. 250+ of lean muscle mass is the range in which he'll be good. At 238, he will never have the strength to hold the edge on a rush, or to shed a blocker that has engaged him. This was proven last year.

He's not being paid to hold up the edge IDIOT his primary function is to get to the QB via speed mixed in with pass rush moves FOOL.HOLD UP against the run you idiot.Hence why we add personal to spell him and possibly help him on running downs lol..

Keep trying DONKEY most can see the weak position your trying to take..

EEEEAAAWWWW tee towel dishes for you..

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55 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Someone here wants shirtless Beasley selfies to check his gains...

Not me. I just want to see some actual effective, consistent production.

 

1 hour ago, kiwifalcon said:

He's not being paid to hold up the edge IDIOT his primary function is to get to the QB via speed mixed in with pass rush moves FOOL.HOLD UP against the run you idiot.Hence why we add personal to spell him and possibly help him on running downs lol..

Keep trying DONKEY most can see the weak position your trying to take..

EEEEAAAWWWW tee towel dishes for you..

So we get to tell the offense when and where to run?

"No fair running at our safety-sized DE, because he's just here to rush the passer! If we have Beasley in, you have to pass, or run to the middle!!!"

Also, what "personal" was added? A personal what? A personal trainer? A personal nutritionist? He has one.

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32 minutes ago, Oldskooler said:

Not me. I just want to see some actual effective, consistent production.

 

So we get to tell the offense when and where to run?

"No fair running at our safety-sized DE, because he's just here to rush the passer! If we have Beasley in, you have to pass, or run to the middle!!!"

Also, what "personal" was added? A personal what? A personal trainer? A personal nutritionist? He has one.

LEO is a LB who almost always lines up on the LoS and blitzes.  Has always been a pet peeve to hear people say that Beasley needs to bulk up.  He's (effectively) a speed rush 3-4 LB not a 4-3 DE.   We do not run a traditional 4-3 defense where you have a 260-290 lb beef cake.  Beasley is not in when there is a strong belief, the offense will run the ball.  If a team runs while he is in, the hope is that his blitz either stops or disrupts the play allowing the LBs (and other personnel to run to the ball (why we need fast and physical).  The LEO is not normally a read and react position...it is to get to the QB as quick as possible and not concerning himself with play action or other such offensive slight of hand or the play call.

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1 hour ago, Oldskooler said:

Not me. I just want to see some actual effective, consistent production.

 

So we get to tell the offense when and where to run?

"No fair running at our safety-sized DE, because he's just here to rush the passer! If we have Beasley in, you have to pass, or run to the middle!!!"

Also, what "personal" was added? A personal what? A personal trainer? A personal nutritionist? He has one.

When and where to run WTF are you on about for the most part it's on 1st or 2nd down when and where to run get a clue.

If you had a look during the season Beasley was hardly as bad as your pitifully trying to make out.Beasley doesn't need to bulk idiot we want his speed that's the whole reason for drafting him lol.

Bulk up to slow him down yeah shot Sherlock.

Stop talking now already I knew your an idiot now your just confirming it the more and more you say.

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