DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 But overpaying a bunch of dudes hasnt helped them yet. Can't imagine it would start now. As evidenced by all those dudes they keep cutting. Football is hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby.Digital Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) On 03/03/2016 at 0:34 PM, JRob215 said: You can believe he is a "great all around SLB" but I will continue to disagree. He's a decent run defender and his best role might still be as a pass-rushing specialist. Again, he has been in the league only 4 years, but he is pushing 29 and is already at or beyond his physical prime. My argument is not that he's some league-average player, but that he is somewhere between above average and good. When you combine that with the fact that he isn't going to improve beyond the numbers you see, he isn't worth close to $10 million per season. What are you basing this off? Did you read that link I posted of what Seattle's fans had to say about him (you know the guys who've watched every game of his). He was one of the best players on arguably leagues best defenses this year. Great in coverage (something that's never brought up), good defending the run and rushing the passer. That to me sounds like a good all around linebacker. It's clear you haven't watched him play all that much. The guys play has improved every single year (You would actually have to watch him play to know that) yet your so confident he can't improve. When you bring up something like "he wont improve past his numbers" it sounds like your box score scouting with no actually evidence to back up what your saying. Your basically restating that dumb PFF quote. If guys like Crabtree and Curry are worth 8-9 mil then so is Irvin. Edited March 4, 2016 by Bobby.Digital Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconsfan567 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 On 3/2/2016 at 1:15 PM, ATLFalcon36 said: I used to be super high on the Irvin tree and thought he was a "must have" this offseason, but looking at his stat line - just something is super underwhelming about him. For such a "pass rushing expert" as he's touted his sack numbers are pretty low. If Irvin is going to cost 9.5 I'd much rather give that money to Trevathan, who I think would help our defense a lot more. Both players have ties to R. Smith or DQ, but I think Trevathan would have a bigger impact than Irvin who has very low tackle and sack numbers. Yeah same here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconsfan567 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 21 minutes ago, Bobby.Digital said: What are you basing this off? Did you read that link I posted of what Seattle's fans had to say about him (you know the guys who've watched every game of his). He was one of the best players on arguably leagues best defenses this year. Great in coverage (something that's never brought up), good defending the run and rushing the passer. That to me sounds like a good all around linebacker. It's clear you haven't watched him play all that much. The guys play has improved every single year (You would actually have to watch him play to know that) yet your so confident he can't improve. When you bring up something like "he wont improve past his numbers" it sounds like your box score scouting with no actually evidence to back up what your saying. Your basically restating that dumb PFF quote. If guys like Crabtree and Curry are worth 8-9 mil then so is Irvin. Seattle didn't have anywhere near the best defense in the NFL this year. They gave up how many 4th quarter leads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby.Digital Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said: Seattle didn't have anywhere near the best defense in the NFL this year. They gave up how many 4th quarter leads? ?. 1st in ppg, 2nd in total ypg, 2nd in passing yards allowed per game and 1st aginst the run. Edited March 4, 2016 by Bobby.Digital Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconsfan567 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, Bobby.Digital said: ?. 1st in ppg, 2nd in total ypg, 2nd in passing yards allowed per game and 1st aginst the run. Really? That's surprising because they couldn't hold onto a 4th quarter lead at all. Week 1 - Up 31-24 - Lost 34-31 in OT Week 2 - Up 17-16 (17-13 in 3rd) - Lost 27-17 Week 5 - Up 24-7 - Lost 27-24 in OT Week 6 - Up 23-14 - Lost 27-23 Week 10 - Up 29-25 - Lost 39-32 So 5 of their 6 losses in 2015 were the result of blowing a 4th quarter lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pr0d16y Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 If we sign Irvin this team is f&%ked. Just the facts, ma'am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRob215 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 4 hours ago, Bobby.Digital said: What are you basing this off? Did you read that link I posted of what Seattle's fans had to say about him (you know the guys who've watched every game of his). He was one of the best players on arguably leagues best defenses this year. Great in coverage (something that's never brought up), good defending the run and rushing the passer. That to me sounds like a good all around linebacker. It's clear you haven't watched him play all that much. The guys play has improved every single year (You would actually have to watch him play to know that) yet your so confident he can't improve. When you bring up something like "he wont improve past his numbers" it sounds like your box score scouting with no actually evidence to back up what your saying. Your basically restating that dumb PFF quote. If guys like Crabtree and Curry are worth 8-9 mil then so is Irvin. You criticize PFF, yet you use the fans of Seattle to make your argument? I have watched Irvin play a lot, in fact, and the best he ever looked was in year one as a situational pass rusher. I seriously believe there are a lot of players that could make the same impact doing what he does for a lot less money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby.Digital Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, JRob215 said: You criticize PFF, yet you use the fans of Seattle to make your argument? I have watched Irvin play a lot, in fact, and the best he ever looked was in year one as a situational pass rusher. I seriously believe there are a lot of players that could make the same impact doing what he does for a lot less money. I'm taking the opinion of Seattle fans over PFF all day. Espically the posters on that site who have proved themselves to be extremely knowledgeable. They're basically backing up what I've seen. As for you watching him "alot" I highly doubt it. Not once have you ever broke his game down other than bringing up his numbers (Which are very good for a SLB) or restating that PFF quote. Lastly you still haven't named 5 SLBs better than him. So until you can your argument of him being a decent player doesn't hold much weight. *** This is what another poster had to say about him Thing is, it's not that Irvin is interesting in that price range. He is. actually, he's quite an amazing athlete, dynamic playmaker, swiss army knife type of guy that is an impactful player on coverage, on pass rush and run defense. That is very very very difficult to replace, and I think everyone in his right mind would love to keep him around. I doubt he stays because for 2016, Seahawks have more important players to retain. http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=574567&start=75 Edited March 5, 2016 by Bobby.Digital Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRob215 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Your posts just get more personal each time... I'm not biting. You can keep "doubting" my knowledge and analysis, just as I doubt yours. I'll take analysis based on every single play (PFF) vs. what Seattle fans say about their own player 10/10 times. Just like I'd never take the opinions of the majority of the posters on this board as the gospel without watching the games myself. Agree to disagree, as I've said several times now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashburn*Fibonacci Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 4 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said: Yeah same here. Me too me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFanSince1970 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 On 3/3/2016 at 1:41 PM, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said: And FTR - Olivier Vernon isn't going to go anywhere for $9.5 million a year. That dude is gonna get ~$14m per + For a 7.5 sack man with one double digit sack year under his belt? Either the market has drastically changed or you're more clueless than I originally thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEIST Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I doubt Bruce comes here. Recently went on a huge Jaguars followspree including Jaguars fans, their content websites, etc. Today he tweeted about how he would hate to come back to ATL because the people here don't want to see you succeed (talking about the people he grew up with). Plus the Jags are just gonna offer way too much. I recently got into trying to make a mock and the Jags have an absurd amount of cap space... whoever we want we better make sure the Jags don't want him too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFanSince1970 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 17 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said: Really? That's surprising because they couldn't hold onto a 4th quarter lead at all. Week 1 - Up 31-24 hree and outs and turnovers the offense saddled them with.- Lost 34-31 in OT Week 2 - Up 17-16 (17-13 in 3rd) - Lost 27-17 Week 5 - Up 24-7 - Lost 27-24 in OT Week 6 - Up 23-14 - Lost 27-23 Week 10 - Up 29-25 - Lost 39-32 So 5 of their 6 losses in 2015 were the result of blowing a 4th quarter lead. No go look at all the fourth quarter three and outs and turnovers the offense saddled them with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 On 3/5/2016 at 11:19 AM, FalconFanSince1970 said: For a 7.5 sack man with one double digit sack year under his belt? Either the market has drastically changed or you're more clueless than I originally thought. The transition tag value there is $12.7 million. A competing team has little incentive to offer him a deal in the ~$9m range unless they're absolutely crushing the front years with guaranteed cash. Look at how much money Jacksonville has, how much of a need for a pass rush they have and its easy to see them hitting him up with a deal in excess of the transition tag. Especially given that the cap keeps jumping $10m per year. But then again....maybe NFL GMs just look up sack totals and make their decision based on a box score.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFanSince1970 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 5 hours ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said: The transition tag value there is $12.7 million. A competing team has little incentive to offer him a deal in the ~$9m range unless they're absolutely crushing the front years with guaranteed cash. Look at how much money Jacksonville has, how much of a need for a pass rush they have and its easy to see them hitting him up with a deal in excess of the transition tag. Especially given that the cap keeps jumping $10m per year. But then again....maybe NFL GMs just look up sack totals and make their decision based on a box score.... So you still think he'll get $14M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 15 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said: So you still think he'll get $14M? I think it's possible, on the high end. At least from an APY perspective. He's a 25 year old UFA edge rusher in a market where people are throwing money around like crazy and the cap is projected to go up. He's either going to get a deal in the 11-14 range OR his first year cap hit is going to be very very significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 On 3/5/2016 at 11:19 AM, FalconFanSince1970 said: For a 7.5 sack man with one double digit sack year under his belt? Either the market has drastically changed or you're more clueless than I originally thought. Peter King @SI_PeterKing 4m4 minutes ago Olivier Vernon: 5 years, $85 million, $52.5m guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconsfan567 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 FFS70 once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFanSince1970 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 1 hour ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said: Peter King @SI_PeterKing 4m4 minutes ago Olivier Vernon: 5 years, $85 million, $52.5m guaranteed. Well I wouldn't have paid that. Stupid money. Both of the sports talk stations I listened to today agreed. Now Larry, let me ask you this question. Where T F is our pass rush son? We're coming off a franchise worst 19 sacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 15 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said: Well I wouldn't have paid that. Stupid money. Both of the sports talk stations I listened to today agreed. Now Larry, let me ask you this question. Where T F is our pass rush son? We're coming off a franchise worst 19 sacks. Oh! Well then it must be true! Our pass rush is being drafted. Because that's how you build a sustainable pass rush. You spend a Top 10 pick on an elite edge rush prospect. You find interior disruptors. You keep drafting those players. And you supplement them with solid veteran options. Oh, and you have linebackers that aren't dog ****. and FTR: stop assessing pass rush by "sacks." Thats not how it works. If you're half as knowledgeable about football as you claim to be, you'd realize that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitown2ATL_Falcon Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 He signed with the Raiders. How did we miss that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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