Eagles release LB DeMeco Ryans

[PeytonMannings Forehead]

29 minutes ago, Hometownfan said:

Scheme has nothing to do with it?  You have a team that is transitioning from a 3/4 to a 4/3.  That means you have one less MLB/ILB.

Not really. In the 4-3 you play with three primary inside backers. In the 3-4 its two, with the outside guys mainly as the pass rushers.

Going to a 4-3 doesn't make him expendable. His declining game and injuries make him expendable. It's not like one of their outside linebackers from last year (Barwin or Graham) are going to do anything this year but rush the passer.

Edited February 25, 2016 by PeytonMannings Forehead

[Hometownfan]

10 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Not really. In the 4-3 you play with three primary inside backers. In the 3-4 its two, with the outside guys mainly as the pass rushers.

Going to a 4-3 doesn't make him expendable. His declining game and injuries make him expendable. It's not like one of their outside linebackers from last year (Barwin or Graham) are going to do anything this year but rush the passer.

If the Eagles had stayed with the 3/4, Demeco would have been retained.

[PeytonMannings Forehead]

14 minutes ago, Hometownfan said:

If the Eagles had stayed with the 3/4, Demeco would have been retained.

Why... they only played with two inside linebackers last year. Barwin and Graham the olbs from last year aren't linebackers. They were pass rushers.

This year they are playing with three true inside backers. 

Scheme wasn't the reason hewass cut... age, attrition, salary but not scheme. 

[Hometownfan]

13 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Why... they only played with two inside linebackers last year. Barwin and Graham the olbs from last year aren't linebackers. They were pass rushers.

This year they are playing with three true inside backers. 

Scheme wasn't the reason hewass cut... age, attrition, salary but not scheme. 

Come on now.  Barwin and Graham aren't LB's?  They played with 2 ILB's last year and this year they will play with one (only) ILB/MLB, so they needed to get rid of one of the ILB's they played with last year---Ryan's release was not due to scheme change?

[PeytonMannings Forehead]

5 minutes ago, Hometownfan said:

Come on now.  Barwin and Graham aren't LB's?  They played with 2 ILB's last year and this year they will play with one (only) ILB/MLB, so they needed to get rid of one of the ILB's they played with last year---Ryan's release was not due to scheme change?

Barwin and Graham were pass rushers... that was their role?  This year they will be defensive ends.  

 

This year they are playing with three true inside backers vs last year where they only had two. Theoretically he had a better chance to start in their base whether it was at Mike or Right or Left Linebacker (Schwartz doesnt designate Strong or Weak with his backers).

[PeytonMannings Forehead]

Let me try this another way with pictures.

This is an Over front out of a 3-4 look.  48 and 95 on the edges are designated as outside linebacker, but they are for all intents and purposes pass rushers.  The only true linebackers in the pic are 94 and 50.  That's two inside linebackers.

This is an Over front based out of the 4-3 with the Wide 9's that Schwartz prefers.  How many inside linebackers do you see now?  I count three.  Last season the Eagles only played with 2... this year they will be playing with 3.  Ryans doesn't have to play the Mike.  He could play weakside or the sam in this front.

Edit: Here's another with the Over front marked.

Edited February 25, 2016 by PeytonMannings Forehead

[Hometownfan]

I've watched Conner a lot--both with the Texans, where he played WILL---the principal (LB'er) pass rusher.  There, he also set the edge and occasionally dropped back in coverage.  With Philly, he plays the Strong side and drops a lot more in coverage, as is correct for a 3/4 line backer.

In a 4/3, it remains to be seen what Schwartz will do, but Barwin will not be a DE.  He may line up occasionally with his hand on the ground, but he is a LB'er.  Check the depth chart when it comes out.

To say he is not a LB'er only displays your ignorance of the game, photos or no.

Edit: incidentally, Conner Barwin is another example of a team getting a great player in FA.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Hometownfan

[BigDog90]

10 hours ago, Sandy5prings said:

Link to Adam Schefter

Ryans is 31 years old. I know he's a 3-4 ILB now but he might be an intriguing prospect for us because he came into the league as a prototypical 4-3 MLB. 

Falcons need somebody younger. 

[Hometownfan]

1 hour ago, BigDog90 said:

Falcons need somebody younger. 

Maybe Pop Warner?

[PeytonMannings Forehead]

8 hours ago, Hometownfan said:

I've watched Conner a lot--both with the Texans, where he played WILL---the principal (LB'er) pass rusher.  There, he also set the edge and occasionally dropped back in coverage.  With Philly, he plays the Strong side and drops a lot more in coverage, as is correct for a 3/4 line backer.

Edit: incidentally, Conner Barwin is another example of a team getting a great player in FA.

Then you should know that he played Defensive End at Cincinnati.

 

 

Quote

In a 4/3, it remains to be seen what Schwartz will do, but Barwin will not be a DE.  He may line up occasionally with his hand on the ground, but he is a LB'er.  Check the depth chart when it comes out.

To say he is not a LB'er only displays your ignorance of the game, photos or no.

Oh really?

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/1/21/10805514/eagles-news-connor-barwin-4-3-defensive-end-pass-rush-defense-jim-schwartz

Quote

Eagles News: Connor Barwin expects to play 4-3 defensive end

 

"I don’t think it will be as different as people think. We ran a 3-4 with (Bill Davis as defensive coordinator) but we were in a 4-3 over 40 percent of the snaps, if not more. I’ll probably be playing defensive end and if I do play linebacker it will probably be up on the line, like I was on first down here."

You say you've watched Barwin a lot, well I've been watching Schwartz coordinate since Tennessee.  I know how he runs his defenses.  Barwin will be a pass rusher not a tweener, a pass rusher.

Schwartz keeps his scheme simple and to the point.  He doesn't even designate strong or weakside linebackers and neither one has to play on top of the line of scrimmage.  They both always play on the same side.  Going to a 4-3 did not take any potential role away from Demeco Ryans. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by PeytonMannings Forehead

[hjerry]

Ha 

newbie learning who PeytonManningsForehead is on this board 

[Hometownfan]

6 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Then you should know that he played Defensive End at Cincinnati.

 

 

Oh really?

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/1/21/10805514/eagles-news-connor-barwin-4-3-defensive-end-pass-rush-defense-jim-schwartz

You say you've watched Barwin a lot, well I've been watching Schwartz coordinate since Tennessee.  I know how he runs his defenses.  Barwin will be a pass rusher not a tweener, a pass rusher.

Schwartz keeps his scheme simple and to the point.  He doesn't even designate strong or weakside linebackers and neither one has to play on top of the line of scrimmage.  They both always play on the same side.  Going to a 4-3 did not take any potential role away from Demeco Ryans. 

What Schwartz does with Barwin doesn't mean that Barwin hasn't played line backer for his entire time with the Eagles.  You only have to watch one game to figure that out.  Barwin was a DE at Cincy?  Big deal.  Lots of college DE's transition to NFL linebackers.  Barwin was a LB'er for the Texans and for the Eagles.  Because some of his assignments call for him to rush the passer, doesn't mean that he is not responsible for coverage, setting the edge and the run, depending on the defensive play called.

[putnam6]

Not saying Ryans is or isn't that guy, but I do think they need to find a veteran leader for the defense. Somebody thats a coach on the field.

[PeytonMannings Forehead]

59 minutes ago, Hometownfan said:

What Schwartz does with Barwin doesn't mean that Barwin hasn't played line backer for his entire time with the Eagles.  You only have to watch one game to figure that out.  Barwin was a DE at Cincy?  Big deal.  Lots of college DE's transition to NFL linebackers.  Barwin was a LB'er for the Texans and for the Eagles.  Because some of his assignments call for him to rush the passer, doesn't mean that he is not responsible for coverage, setting the edge and the run, depending on the defensive play called.

You said Barwin isn't playing defensive end in 2016, now when I show you're wrong, you're saying it doesn't matter?  Lol... ok.  

Of course he was designated as a linebacker, but in the 3-4 you know what that means?  It means you are a pass rusher.  The man had 14.5 sacks two seasons ago.  You know who puts up those kinds of numbers?  PASS RUSHERS!

Let me get back my original point.  Demeco Ryans was not cut because of scheme.  You seem to think he was because, I don't know, you think Barwin was going to be one of the three linebackers this year in the 4-3?  Well, no.  Well we can put that to rest.

Demeco was cut because he is no longer Demeco.  He's been banged up, and there are younger, cheaper guy in the wings.  If he was still Demeco, he'd still be an Eagle.

[Hometownfan]

" Of course he was designated as a linebacker, but in the 3-4 you know what that means?  It means you are a pass rusher.  The man had 14.5 sacks two seasons ago.  You know who puts up those kinds of numbers?  PASS RUSHERS! "

Of course Barwin rushed the passer.  That's what OLB'ers do.  To say he wasn't a LB'er, he was a pass rusher, demonstrates a lack of understanding of the position.  By the way, do you know how many sacks this "pass rusher" had in the first year he was with the Eagles?

Demeco had injury problems and was getting a little long in the tooth, but the main reason he was cut was that they had one MLB on board and didn't need another because they were switching to a 4/3.  Would you suggest that the scheme change had NOTHING to do with it?

 

[PeytonMannings Forehead]

8 minutes ago, Hometownfan said:

Of course Barwin rushed the passer.  That's what OLB'ers do.  To say he wasn't a LB'er, he was a pass rusher, demonstrates a lack of understanding of the position.  By the way, do you know how many sacks this "pass rusher" had in the first year he was with the Eagles?

Demeco had injury problems and was getting a little long in the tooth, but the main reason he was cut was that they had one MLB on board and didn't need another because they were switching to a 4/3.  Would you suggest that the scheme change had NOTHING to do with it?

 

I'm not understanding the position?  You're the one who doesn't seem to be understanding the difference between the 3-4 and the 4-3 as demonstrated by your insistence that Barwin WAS NOT going to be playing defensive end this year.  

If Connor Barwin was a traditional linebacker, then he would be playing linebacker in 2016.  And yes, I know how many sacks Barwin had his first year in Philly.  Do you know why that is?  Take a look at who else was on the roster in 2013 and you'll have your answer.

[Hometownfan]

6 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

I'm not understanding the position?  You're the one who doesn't seem to be understanding the difference between the 3-4 and the 4-3 as demonstrated by your insistence that Barwin WAS NOT going to be playing defensive end this year.  

If Connor Barwin was a traditional linebacker, then he would be playing linebacker in 2016.  And yes, I know how many sacks Barwin had his first year in Philly.  Do you know why that is?  Take a look at who else was on the roster in 2013 and you'll have your answer.

The article you quote that says Connor MAY be playing DE in 2016 is ambiguous.

"One of the players potentially impacted by the addition of Schwartz is linebacker  Connor Barwin , who came off the edge mostly as a pass rusher in the team’s 3-4 front. Should the Eagles use more of a four-man front with three linebackers, where would Barwin fit in? Would he put his hand in the dirt and come hard off the edge? Would he use his long arms and frame as a strongside linebacker and cover tight ends at times? Johnson enjoyed some of his greatest success with Carlos Emmons at the SAM position from 2000-03."

It doesn't say that Connor will switch from LB'er to DE.  It says that as a linebacker, Connor may find himself lining up with his hand in the dirt---like a DE.  This is normal for a LB'er in both a 3/4 and a 4/3.

Notice the article you quote calls Connor a LINEBACKER.  Case closed.

[PeytonMannings Forehead]

23 minutes ago, Hometownfan said:

The article you quote that says Connor MAY be playing DE in 2016 is ambiguous.

"One of the players potentially impacted by the addition of Schwartz is linebacker  Connor Barwin , who came off the edge mostly as a pass rusher in the team’s 3-4 front. Should the Eagles use more of a four-man front with three linebackers, where would Barwin fit in? Would he put his hand in the dirt and come hard off the edge? Would he use his long arms and frame as a strongside linebacker and cover tight ends at times? Johnson enjoyed some of his greatest success with Carlos Emmons at the SAM position from 2000-03."

It doesn't say that Connor will switch from LB'er to DE.  It says that as a linebacker, Connor may find himself lining up with his hand in the dirt---like a DE.  This is normal for a LB'er in both a 3/4 and a 4/3.

Notice the article you quote calls Connor a LINEBACKER.  Case closed.

Ambiguous?  If you really understood schemes and alignment you would see that what Barwin described as his potential role isn't ambiguous at all.  And if you comprehended what I told you about the way Schwartz runs his scheme, you'd be even more clear.

 

And case closed?  Ok, if you say so, because because it's clear you're not getting it.  You're caught up in designations and not player roles, which is all that matters.  The role of a 4-3 outside linebacker is worlds apart from the role of a 3-4 outside linebacker.  

[Positive Thinker]

17 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Let me try this another way with pictures.

This is an Over front out of a 3-4 look.  48 and 95 on the edges are designated as outside linebacker, but they are for all intents and purposes pass rushers.  The only true linebackers in the pic are 94 and 50.  That's two inside linebackers.

This is an Over front based out of the 4-3 with the Wide 9's that Schwartz prefers.  How many inside linebackers do you see now?  I count three.  Last season the Eagles only played with 2... this year they will be playing with 3.  Ryans doesn't have to play the Mike.  He could play weakside or the sam in this front.

Edit: Here's another with the Over front marked.

That was very Jaws-like. Great job!

Edited February 25, 2016 by ATL58FAN

[primetime]

^^^^^^ topic officially derailed - let it go boys. For what it's worth (and I appreciate this is fuel to the fire) a 3-4 olb is neither solely a lb or a pass rusher - effectively they are a hybrid of both. Some may drop back more in coverage and others will pass rush more but this is really based on personnel etc. 

[Hometownfan]

Oh, and as far as the scheme change affecting DeMeco, here's a quote from an NFL article:

"The move isn't a surprise given Ryans' age, injury history, salary and the Eagles' move to a 4-3 defense.

The move will save Philly $3.5 million in salary-cap space with $1 million in dead money.

A veteran leader of the Eagles' defense, the 31-year-old was an effective player when healthy, but missed 10 games over the past two seasons due to injury.

With the Eagles switching to a 4-3 defensive under new coordinator Jim Schwartz, there was one fewer starting inside linebacker job for Ryans.

Jordan Hicks, who played extremely well as a rookie, prior to his season-ending injury, will see an increased role with Ryans out the door."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000638127/article/philadelphia-eagles-cut-veteran-lb-demeco-ryans

[PeytonMannings Forehead]

4 minutes ago, Hometownfan said:

Oh, and as far as the scheme change affecting DeMeco, here's a quote from an NFL article:

"The move isn't a surprise given Ryans' age, injury history, salary and the Eagles' move to a 4-3 defense.

The move will save Philly $3.5 million in salary-cap space with $1 million in dead money.

A veteran leader of the Eagles' defense, the 31-year-old was an effective player when healthy, but missed 10 games over the past two seasons due to injury.

With the Eagles switching to a 4-3 defensive under new coordinator Jim Schwartz, there was one fewer starting inside linebacker job for Ryans.

Jordan Hicks, who played extremely well as a rookie, prior to his season-ending injury, will see an increased role with Ryans out the door."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000638127/article/philadelphia-eagles-cut-veteran-lb-demeco-ryans

So what.  An NFL.com blurb like that does not talk intricacies.  It talks in broad strokes, and SPECULATION.  Those same blurbs have have you and most other casual football fans thinking that the 4-3 or the 3-4 is a defense when they most certainly are not.

They are alignments!  There is a lot more to a defensive scheme than how many men have their hands in the dirt.

[Hometownfan]

9 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

So what.  An NFL.com blurb like that does not talk intricacies.  It talks in broad strokes, and SPECULATION.  Those same blurbs have have you and most other casual football fans thinking that the 4-3 or the 3-4 is a defense when they most certainly are not.

They are alignments!  There is a lot more to a defensive scheme than how many men have their hands in the dirt.

So what?  You're wrong, that's what.

I quoted the article because you seem like to use them as justification for your foolish arguments.  

The previous article you so proudly referred to about Connor going to DE was not SPECULATION, right?

Barwin is not a linebacker; a 3/4 defense is not a defense, it's an "alignment" and blah, blah, blah.  I'll bet you would have made a good politician!

[PeytonMannings Forehead]

3 minutes ago, Hometownfan said:

So what?  You're wrong, that's what.

I quoted the article because you seem like to use them as justification for your foolish arguments.  

The previous article you so proudly referred to about Connor going to DE was not SPECULATION, right?

Barwin is not a linebacker; a 3/4 defense is not a defense, it's an "alignment" and blah, blah, blah.  I'll bet you would have made a good politician!

It's not speculation when the man says it out of his own mouth?  You'll see come September when they start playing for real where Barwin lines up at.

And I would elaborate further on alignment vs. scheme, but you probably think Jack Ham and Lawrence Taylor had the role in their defenses just because they were both listed as Outside Linebackers.

[UGABOZ]

better than any backer we have on the roster good price lets go