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Hageman at nose?


Bullpup969

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43 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

No... I mean of course theoretically he could play there but why force a round peg into a square hole?

Where do you think he fits best? 3tech? I am not as knowlegable as some of you guys. I just now that he has some killer strength, and seems like he should be able to pull double teams. And if you don't mind, please explain why he fits said technique. Thanks. I am still learning myself

 

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10 minutes ago, Bullpup969 said:

Where do you think he fits best? 3tech? I am not as knowlegable as some of you guys. I just now that he has some killer strength, and seems like he should be able to pull double teams. And if you don't mind, please explain why he fits said technique. Thanks. I am still learning myself

 

Hageman is tough because while I think he could develop into a really good interior pass rusher, which would make him ideal for the 3-tech, he's a lot taller than what you ideally want at that position.  He's 6'6" and those tall guys usually have issues with staying low, especially late in games, and on the interior your pad level is everything.

Spongedad is right on that he would make a good LDE, or closed side end.  In the 4-3 Under that LDE doesn't have to be a pure edge rusher like conventional 4-3 ends.  He's going to be on the side with the tight end and his responsibilities are going to be very similar to 3-4 Ends which is actually his MOST ideal position.  In fact, he in a lot of ways makes me think of Red Bryant.  Bryant struggled at defensive tackle, partially because of his height at 6'4", then Pete Carroll came in and kicked him out to the Closed Side Defensive end and he blossomed.

If Hageman is at the NOSE he is completely neutralized.  Personally, I'm not sure he has the motor to play there down after down and take that beating.

 

Note the pic* -- and this is just one of a variety of fronts Quinn uses.

020812_4-3under_All222.png

Playing at the NT, and tilted the way he would be.  You ideally want a big thick guy there.  I think Hageman has strength, but you want bulk -- think Vince Wilfork.  Note* in the Under, the NT isn't always two-gapping, but just because of alignment he is usually going to always be facing doube-teams.

If you look at DT on the left of the pic, see how he's aligned right in that gap?  He's only got one gap he is responsible for.  All he's got to do is shoot.  He's either going to get doubled, or he is going to penetrate and make the play himself.

The DE on the right side of the pic, he's playing to C gap, outside shoulder of the tackle.  I've seen some alignments where he is in a little tighter than this pic, and I've even seen some calls where he is two-gapping, but generally he's responsible for securing the C gap right in front of him.  That end doesn't have to be the most athletic; he can be more of a power guy and the way they did it in Seattle, that's where Red Bryant played so you can go with a taller, thicker 3-4 body-type vs. lean and athletic type that you look for in traditional 4-3 ends. 

Where ever you play Hageman, I think he fits best in a spot like that where he is one-gapping and can use his power and explosiveness.

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34 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Hageman is tough because while I think he could develop into a really good interior pass rusher, which would make him ideal for the 3-tech, he's a lot taller than what you ideally want at that position.  He's 6'6" and those tall guys usually have issues with staying low, especially late in games, and on the interior your pad level is everything.

Spongedad is right on that he would make a good LDE, or closed side end.  In the 4-3 Under that LDE doesn't have to be a pure edge rusher like conventional 4-3 ends.  He's going to be on the side with the tight end and his responsibilities are going to be very similar to 3-4 Ends which is actually his MOST ideal position.  In fact, he in a lot of ways makes me think of Red Bryant.  Bryant struggled at defensive tackle, partially because of his height at 6'4", then Pete Carroll came in and kicked him out to the Closed Side Defensive end and he blossomed.

If Hageman is at the NOSE he is completely neutralized.  Personally, I'm not sure he has the motor to play there down after down and take that beating.

 

Note the pic* -- and this is just one of a variety of fronts Quinn uses.

020812_4-3under_All222.png

Playing at the NT, and tilted the way he would be.  You ideally want a big thick guy there.  I think Hageman has strength, but you want bulk -- think Vince Wilfork.  Note* in the Under, the NT isn't always two-gapping, but just because of alignment he is usually going to always be facing doube-teams.

If you look at DT on the left of the pic, see how he's aligned right in that gap?  He's only got one gap he is responsible for.  All he's got to do is shoot.  He's either going to get doubled, or he is going to penetrate and make the play himself.

The DE on the right side of the pic, he's playing to C gap, outside shoulder of the tackle.  I've seen some alignments where he is in a little tighter than this pic, and I've even seen some calls where he is two-gapping, but generally he's responsible for securing the C gap right in front of him.  That end doesn't have to be the most athletic; he can be more of a power guy and the way they did it in Seattle, that's where Red Bryant played so you can go with a taller, thicker 3-4 body-type vs. lean and athletic type that you look for in traditional 4-3 ends. 

Where ever you play Hageman, I think he fits best in a spot like that where he is one-gapping and can use his power and explosiveness.

**** dude, you ever think about coaching? Thanks man, makes alot more sense to me now. You def know you stuff. You ever play pro ball are something?

 

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Like PeytonManningsForehead said. He has the tools to be a 3tech and rush from the inside. I would love for him to become dominant at that position.

However, coaches have used him primarily on running downs. As stated, its all about leverage. There are plays where he blows his guy up every game, but others where he is driven way back.  His height is a hindrance.

He can definitely use his strength as a DE playing a 5tech in the 4-3 under. I just hope he improves and gets more snaps period. 

Edited by jeffro2000
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2 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Hageman is tough because while I think he could develop into a really good interior pass rusher, which would make him ideal for the 3-tech, he's a lot taller than what you ideally want at that position.  He's 6'6" and those tall guys usually have issues with staying low, especially late in games, and on the interior your pad level is everything.

Spongedad is right on that he would make a good LDE, or closed side end.  In the 4-3 Under that LDE doesn't have to be a pure edge rusher like conventional 4-3 ends.  He's going to be on the side with the tight end and his responsibilities are going to be very similar to 3-4 Ends which is actually his MOST ideal position.  In fact, he in a lot of ways makes me think of Red Bryant.  Bryant struggled at defensive tackle, partially because of his height at 6'4", then Pete Carroll came in and kicked him out to the Closed Side Defensive end and he blossomed.

If Hageman is at the NOSE he is completely neutralized.  Personally, I'm not sure he has the motor to play there down after down and take that beating.

 

Note the pic* -- and this is just one of a variety of fronts Quinn uses.

020812_4-3under_All222.png

Playing at the NT, and tilted the way he would be.  You ideally want a big thick guy there.  I think Hageman has strength, but you want bulk -- think Vince Wilfork.  Note* in the Under, the NT isn't always two-gapping, but just because of alignment he is usually going to always be facing doube-teams.

If you look at DT on the left of the pic, see how he's aligned right in that gap?  He's only got one gap he is responsible for.  All he's got to do is shoot.  He's either going to get doubled, or he is going to penetrate and make the play himself.

The DE on the right side of the pic, he's playing to C gap, outside shoulder of the tackle.  I've seen some alignments where he is in a little tighter than this pic, and I've even seen some calls where he is two-gapping, but generally he's responsible for securing the C gap right in front of him.  That end doesn't have to be the most athletic; he can be more of a power guy and the way they did it in Seattle, that's where Red Bryant played so you can go with a taller, thicker 3-4 body-type vs. lean and athletic type that you look for in traditional 4-3 ends. 

Where ever you play Hageman, I think he fits best in a spot like that where he is one-gapping and can use his power and explosiveness.

Great post man. 

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10 hours ago, Bullpup969 said:

Do any of you think he can be a replacement for Solia? 

He could eat and lift his way into the position, but if he's going to LDE (like someone has suggested here), he'd probably better trim-down some. His "motor might be inconsistent" because his body cannot handle the extra mass well, and chase around the field.

Falcons will probably draft a NT or keep Mbu for 2 downs.

Jarrett and Babineaux will earn some snaps from a pass-rush stand-point at UT..Big competition for snaps.

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11 hours ago, Rise said:

He could eat and lift his way into the position, but if he's going to LDE (like someone has suggested here), he'd probably better trim-down some. His "motor might be inconsistent" because his body cannot handle the extra mass well, and chase around the field.

Falcons will probably draft a NT or keep Mbu for 2 downs.

Jarrett and Babineaux will earn some snaps from a pass-rush stand-point at UT..Big competition for snaps.

I WAS one of the guys who thought he might make a DE. Then I saw him give chase in some game and he cannot run at all. His legs looked like they were bound together at mid-thigh. He is an interior guy and can play either spot.

Edited by HOYLE
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I will say this as clearly as I can.  If Andrew Billings is anywhere near us at 17... get him.  Period.  I think he will be one of the fiercest nfl interior defensive linemen in the nfl.

His strength alone is legendary in Texas.  Add that to his incredible quickness in close quarters...he has many pro bowls ahead of him.  

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