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Falcons Jalen Collins Hopes To Rebound From Rookie Disappointment


theProf
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Quinn's Super Bowl Champion Defense had CBs that had similar physical attributes as Collins.

I will trust Quinn's word on what type of players it takes to build a Super Bowl caliber defense with his scheme over a poster at TATF who proclaims he wasn't needed.

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The list of good 2nd rd picks we could have taken before Collins makes me sick. I don't think anyone here had a mock last year that included Collins. He was taken because of his size is ridiculous considering his lack of playing time at LSU. If Quinn wanted a CB for size alone, he should be scouting at basketball games. Collins has as much CB experience as a power forward.

Quinntroffed. Basically fouled out in the second round when we desperately needed to hit a home run. smdh

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Is there a link to an article or interview saying Collins was Quinn's pick? Or is TATF assuming that because he's a Richard Sherman look alike? Dude has Dimi written all over him. Even if Quinn picked him Dimi should have said look who's on that board and vetoed him.

Of course, no one knows for sure who actually pulled the trigger on Collins: whether it was Quinn or Dimitroff or Pioli or a joint decision. What is known is that Quinn said that drafting a CB with length and speed was a draft priority. From a Vaughn McClure article before the 2015 draft:

"Quinn was asked if drafting a cornerback is a priority.

"Yes, absolutely,'' Quinn said. "Just the fact to have speed and length with guys who can play on the outside because there's some big receivers in the division, too. So we want a guy who can get his hands on them.''

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/165303/dan-quinn-not-panicking-over-nickelback-spot

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Tell me something Collins does well. I cannot believe you compared him to Grimes, who showed 10x the athleticism and was a willing tackler. Collins showed nothing. He's just a tall dude.

Virtually every single year for the 15 or more I've been posting here, this stale argument by the "this rookie is a bust" guild is used to rationalize how they know the player is a bust. Once in a while these posters are accidentally correct and a couple years down the road the player does flop, but more often the player sticks around years as a solid contributor or breaks out bigtime and the "this rookie is a bust" guild crawl under their rocks hoping other posters forgot how convinced they were the rookie didn't have the skills to play in the NFL.

Just last year several posters were convinced Jake Mathews was a bust, just this year they were convinced Beasly was a bust.

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I guess you got Collins figured out. He'll be a bust then. Next.

We have to go through this year after year after year.......it's never ending. i suppose it's because they are never held to account as it takes a few years from some of these guys to break out and by then most posters have forgotten the proclamations of the bust guild.

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Because malcontents tailor their bitching to the way they perceive the person they're bitching about.

Team Leader "disappoints" malcontent? WHY DONT WE DRAFT EDGIER PLAYERS!

Edgy player gets in trouble? WHY ARE WE TAKING CHANCES ON THESE IDIOTS!

Low ceiling guy? WHERE IS THE UPSIDE!

High upside guy? HE SUCKS!

It's embarrassing.

I think it would be so much better if this crowd youre describing wasnt the same crowd that INSISTS that theyd make a better GM than anyone in the NFL.

Uh....you cant even get the heads in your head to agree, but yet you think you can manage a team? Please.

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Quinntroffed. Basically fouled out in the second round when we desperately needed to hit a home run. smdh

You really think that statement ("The list of good 2nd rd picks we could have taken before Collins makes me sick.") is true?

Who are they?

Eric Kendricks and Ronald Darby are the only two 2nd rounders taken post-Collins that showed enough to not give Collins room to grow into the league. A couple other guys would be in the discussion (Perryman, Marpet, Golden) but IDK man. I just don't see it.

Let the kid learn the game.

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You really think that statement ("The list of good 2nd rd picks we could have taken before Collins makes me sick.") is true?

Who are they?

Eric Kendricks and Ronald Darby are the only two 2nd rounders taken post-Collins that showed enough to not give Collins room to grow into the league. A couple other guys would be in the discussion (Perryman, Marpet, Golden) but IDK man. I just don't see it.

Let the kid learn the game.

I guess it depends on your perspective. You obviously feel like Collins will eventually be able to start in the NFL and thus has adequate value for his high pick. I'm not at all sure that will ever happen given what I saw this season, so yeah I'd rather have had about anybody else at #2, especially Kendricks.

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Virtually every single year for the 15 or more I've been posting here, this stale argument by the "this rookie is a bust" guild is used to rationalize how they know the player is a bust. Once in a while these posters are accidentally correct and a couple years down the road the player does flop, but more often the player sticks around years as a solid contributor or breaks out bigtime and the "this rookie is a bust" guild crawl under their rocks hoping other posters forgot how convinced they were the rookie didn't have the skills to play in the NFL.

Just last year several posters were convinced Jake Mathews was a bust, just this year they were convinced Beasly was a bust.

Solid deflection. I'm not one of those guys who proclaimed the two you listed were busts so I'm not sure where you're going.

I asked you to name me positive attributes of Jalen Collins, besides "he's tall and Seattle had similar guys."

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I guess it depends on your perspective. You obviously feel like Collins will eventually be able to start in the NFL and thus has adequate value for his high pick. I'm not at all sure that will ever happen given what I saw this season, so yeah I'd rather have had about anybody else at #2, especially Kendricks.

See, I can't imagine ever passing a judgment like this on a 200 snap body of work. Particularly from a guy who was known to be a project prospect.

I don't know that he'll end up being a stud CB or anything. I don't know. But I know a ton of reputable football writers who do a good job with scouting were very high on Collins. I'm willing to give that the benefit of the doubt.

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Solid deflection. I'm not one of those guys who proclaimed the two you listed were busts so I'm not sure where you're going.

I asked you to name me positive attributes of Jalen Collins, besides "he's tall and Seattle had similar guys."

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/04/03/2015-nfl-draft-ranking-si-64-jaelen-strong-jalen-collins-ameer-abdullah?page=2&devicetype=default

40. Jalen Collins, CB, LSU

Bio: Though Michigan State's Trae Waynes is regarded as the most pro-ready cornerback in this draft class, Collins may eventually overtake him as the best NFL pass defender. Though only 10 starts in his LSU career (LSU constantly rotates its secondary because there's so much talent), Collins amassed 90 tackles, three tackles for loss, three interceptions and 19 passes defensed. He checks all the height-weight-speed boxes, most of his deficits are coachable, and he does fit the prototype of a number-one NFL cornerback in some very exciting ways.

Strengths: Fiery competitor with the ideal frame (6'1", 203 pounds) and aggressiveness for the modern NFL. Has an excellent feel for what's going on in front of him—will break off coverage to help underneath and isn't generally fooled by crossing routes. Outstanding press corner who will re-direct receivers to the boundary and has the speed to keep up downfield. Passionate tackler in run support. Good blitzer who understands angles. Short-area quickness to jump routes and dive in to make plays. Times jump-balls very well and always has an excellent chance of winning vertical battles. Ran a 4.48 40 and posted the top three-cone time at the combine despite a foot injury that subsequently required surgery.

Weaknesses: Gets a little lost at times in off coverage and press-bail concepts—anything where he has to time his backpedal to the rhythm of the play. Can be too stiff and upright in his steps in those situations. Needs to improve diagnosis and pattern reading on quick-breaking routes. Limited experience as a starter could have more savvy NFL receivers giving him fits at times. May need to start his pro career in the slot or as a hybrid rotational player.

Conclusion: While Collins' lack of experience will undoubtedly show when he's on an NFL roster, he's going to be very appealing to pro teams, because he has the frame and aggressiveness required against modern passing games. Over time, he has all the attributes to be one of the better press cornerbacks in the league.

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http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/04/03/2015-nfl-draft-ranking-si-64-jaelen-strong-jalen-collins-ameer-abdullah?page=2&devicetype=default

40. Jalen Collins, CB, LSU

Bio: Though Michigan State's Trae Waynes is regarded as the most pro-ready cornerback in this draft class, Collins may eventually overtake him as the best NFL pass defender. Though only 10 starts in his LSU career (LSU constantly rotates its secondary because there's so much talent), Collins amassed 90 tackles, three tackles for loss, three interceptions and 19 passes defensed. He checks all the height-weight-speed boxes, most of his deficits are coachable, and he does fit the prototype of a number-one NFL cornerback in some very exciting ways.

Strengths: Fiery competitor with the ideal frame (6'1", 203 pounds) and aggressiveness for the modern NFL. Has an excellent feel for what's going on in front of him—will break off coverage to help underneath and isn't generally fooled by crossing routes. Outstanding press corner who will re-direct receivers to the boundary and has the speed to keep up downfield. Passionate tackler in run support. Good blitzer who understands angles. Short-area quickness to jump routes and dive in to make plays. Times jump-balls very well and always has an excellent chance of winning vertical battles. Ran a 4.48 40 and posted the top three-cone time at the combine despite a foot injury that subsequently required surgery.

Weaknesses: Gets a little lost at times in off coverage and press-bail concepts—anything where he has to time his backpedal to the rhythm of the play. Can be too stiff and upright in his steps in those situations. Needs to improve diagnosis and pattern reading on quick-breaking routes. Limited experience as a starter could have more savvy NFL receivers giving him fits at times. May need to start his pro career in the slot or as a hybrid rotational player.

Conclusion: While Collins' lack of experience will undoubtedly show when he's on an NFL roster, he's going to be very appealing to pro teams, because he has the frame and aggressiveness required against modern passing games. Over time, he has all the attributes to be one of the better press cornerbacks in the league.

Now out of his strengths, what did you see in the NFL? Can't break on a ball because he had no awareness the ball was in the air. Remember the time he watched the ball fall at his feet in San Fran and didn't go for the pick?

I get his college report. I want to know what he did well with us.

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See, I can't imagine ever passing a judgment like this on a 200 snap body of work. Particularly from a guy who was known to be a project prospect.

I don't know that he'll end up being a stud CB or anything. I don't know. But I know a ton of reputable football writers who do a good job with scouting were very high on Collins. I'm willing to give that the benefit of the doubt.

"Passing judgment?" Oh, please. All I said was I didn't see much to convince me he was going to be a starter, so at this point, he's a project, which isn't much of a return on a 2nd round pick for a team that is struggling. I'm sure you and all those writers are right ~ Collins will definitely develop into a perennial all-pro and will go into the Ring of Honor and have a huge statue someday outside the new barn.

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Now out of his strengths, what did you see in the NFL? Can't break on a ball because he had no awareness the ball was in the air. Remember the time he watched the ball fall at his feet in San Fran and didn't go for the pick?

I get his college report. I want to know what he did well with us.

So if you "get" his college report, I guess I don't understand why you'd be asking your question with the air of finality with which you've asked it.

That's the whole thing I don't understand about the Collins thing.....this was a recognized and acknowledged idea prior to his first season. Every single evaluation of him discussed the need for him to develop. So why are we judging him as anything like a final product?

It's inconsistent.

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"Passing judgment?" Oh, please. All I said was I didn't see much to convince me he was going to be a starter, so at this point, he's a project, which isn't much of a return on a 2nd round pick for a team that is struggling. I'm sure you and all those writers are right ~ Collins will definitely develop into a perennial all-pro and will go into the Ring of Honor and have a huge statue someday outside the new barn.

How is "I didnt see much to convince me he was going to be a starter" not a judgment? Further, at what point was he framed as a non-project?

The second half of your post is silly hyperbole and presents the issue was a either/or scenario when thats clearly ridiculous.

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Solid deflection. I'm not one of those guys who proclaimed the two you listed were busts so I'm not sure where you're going.

I asked you to name me positive attributes of Jalen Collins, besides "he's tall and Seattle had similar guys."

What makes you think that before he has a full mental understanding of NFL technique, assignments and coverages that you are going to see the quality of his athletic skills utilized? His head is spinning out there at the moment trying to implement everything his coaches have taught him about technique, assignment and coverages on any given snap in game time situations. The kid has the speed to cover, we saw him running toe to toe with fleet receivers this year.

I honestly can't believe I'm having this oconversation witn anyone. The idea that you think you know he is a bust is preposterous to me becuase I KNOW you don't know that with any certainty. You might accidentally end up having guessed right, but you simply do not know yet. for 15 or more years here, it's the same argument by some of you regarding rookies. Short of it is, your emotions are not truth, no matter how much you think they are.

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Believe it or not very few 1st year players go to the NFLand light it up off the bat.

This is the whole development arguement some say 3 years 2 years whatever development rates for players are really quite different and some pick it up quicker than others.

For me pretty every player 1st year in is a project doesn't matter what round there taken in.To me its a myth to think every player taken in the say first 2 rounds should come in and light it up.There are alot of factors in play like learning a play book learning new techniques adjusting to the speed of the game and playing in some cases against superior athletic talent.

Much like Alford coming in he had his troubles 1st year but given a good off season and obviously watched more film and a scheme that fit his skill set the mentioned is night and day better than his first year.

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Oh no, I was here and remember it like it was yesterday. After Roddys second season here he had only 506 receiving yards and zero TDs, fans were incensed, calling him a certified bust and demanded he be cut in the offseason.

Very few fans ackowledged he had talent at that point. Bust, bust, bust was all I heard.

I was one who did ackowledge he had talent and I was ridiculed and ripped apart on the Falcons boards for taking the position we needed to give him into his 3rd season before concluding he was a bust and I pointed to numerous WRs who didn't break out until their 3rd season such as Eric Moulds etc. I was eviscerated for saying we should give Roddy and 3rd season.

There were only a handful of fans who gave my argument any merit at all about Roddy having the talent, I'd say at least 95% of posters where ridiculing me for saying we should hpgive him another season and that he had talent. You are correct about the drops, he had a terrible case of them his first two seasons which added to the hate.

Perhaps you were one of the few around here back then that did ackowledge his talent, but the overwhelming number of fans just wanted him cut and attacked me for even suggesting we give him another year.

You have a talent for excessive exaggeration.

There was criticism about the entire offense but Roddy was always considered far better than Micheal Jenkins and Ashley Lelie.

Jalen Collins was the worse DB even in the preseason. The coaches gave him every opportunity to improve but the kid looked like he was playing on a ice rink.

The coaches expected more development which never happened that's why he ended the season on the bench. Southward 2.0

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What makes you think that before he has a full mental understanding of NFL technique, assignments and coverages that you are going to see the quality of his athletic skills utilized? His head is spinning out there at the moment trying to implement everything his coaches have taught him about technique, assignment and coverages on any given snap in game time situations. The kid has the speed to cover, we saw him running toe to toe with fleet receivers this year.

I honestly can't believe I'm having this oconversation witn anyone. The idea that you think you know he is a bust is preposterous to me becuase I KNOW you don't know that with any certainty. You might accidentally end up having guessed right, but you simply do not know yet. for 15 or more years here, it's the same argument by some of you regarding rookies. Short of it is, your emotions are not truth, no matter how much you think they are.

You can't believe you're having this convo because everything glitters and sparkles to you.

Against the Colts and San Fran dude had two easy picks. The former he ran into the back of a receiver rather than break on the ball and the latter just watched a ball fall at his feet. He is the least physical guy on the team. Dude was running away from contact at times. Quinn noticed and benched him for converted safety Akeem freaking King.

But hey man, keep those eyes closed.

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You can't believe you're having this convo because everything glitters and sparkles to you.

Against the Colts and San Fran dude had two easy picks. The former he ran into the back of a receiver rather than break on the ball and the latter just watched a ball fall at his feet. He is the least physical guy on the team. Dude was running away from contact at times. Quinn noticed and benched him for converted safety Akeem freaking King.

But hey man, keep those eyes closed.

I don't ever call a rookie a bust becuase based on my 50 years of watching the NFL I've learned that would be stupid to do. So call that whatever you want, I call it wisdom.

I give most any young developing player into his third season before making any bust declarations.

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Dude wasn't able to play with confidence all year, could kinda tell his head was swimming. But anyone who can watch how he played in preseason and not see a drastic improvement from then to the end of the year is kidding themselves. When he was on, the dude was on. He was running in stride with some of the faster receivers in the league and his hips are flat out unreal for a guy as tall as he is. Smooth as butter. His biggest issues to me were things that come with experience - awareness of the ball in the air, hesitation when you could tell he wasn't sure whether to make a play on the ball or what to do in a situation. But I'm much less concerned than I was in preseason. He has a good offseason and we're looking at a much better player. I expect him to have a good shot at starting outside at year 3, and doing well at it too. I don't expect him to be an interception machine though. More of a PD and tight coverage guy. Kinda good, since it'll mean he commands less money.

But hey, that's all speculation. Who knows.

Lol......didnt we say the same thing about southward last year?

I thought the switch to CB was terrible, lol. Dude just didn't know how to make plays and really hated the pick when it was made. 5th-6th round talent taken in the 3rd. Collins has 1st round talent and was taken in the 2nd. More comparable to Hageman tbh.

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Wtf are you even talking about? Collins has nothing in common with TDs usual CB picks.

TD goes for experience, stats, speed over size. Owens,trufant, Alford, Franks, chevis.

Yeah these guys aren't like Collins at all.

Naw son, Collins is a classic Dimi CB pick. Bust of epic proportion. Now where's the proof Quinn drafted him?
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